posted
So, I'm genuinely interested in hearing from people who like this movie.
I didn't think the movie was good at all, but I know there are more "learned" folk in the ways of Eva, and said folk could probably shed some light on why End of Eva is so amazing.
What about the movie is appealing?
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Hmm... well, what particular aspect of it made you dislike the movie?
Anyway. Why I like EoE, SPOILERS:
I love End of Evangelion. I do love the original Eva series as well, and I'm one of those odd people who even likes the original ending, but EoE, when I saw it the first time, totally blew my mind.
It's hard to describe, really, why the movie affected me the way it did. It was a purely emotional reaction, in many ways. I've never been as interested in the external Eva mythology with the angels and stuff as in the things that the main characters go through.
I very strongly identified with Shinji in the original series, and as such I always wanted things to turn out well for him. So then of course the movie begins the way it does, and Shinji is reduced to the depressed puddle he is the whole movie through. No one else is really doing much better with Misato dying without getting Shinji to move forward and Asuka having a big, grandioso last stand that in the end accomplishes absolutely nothing.
So by the time we get to the point where the world actually ends with that cheery song playing on the background I was practically devastated. Everybody dies (even poor Maya!) and then Shinji gets rejected by all the most significant people in his life on voice-over - and then, suddenly, we get that beautiful live action sequence with Bach playing on the background. (That really is the most ingenious scene in the movie!) And from there on we have Rei, Kaworu and Yui telling Shinji why life is beautiful, why the world is beautiful, why it is worth going on and not giving up. After which Shinji then decides to go on.
I'm not sure if EoE can truly be considered a "good" or an "artistic" film or not, and even though I take the message of the film to be an upbeat one, the ending can hardly be said to be cheerful what with Shinji strangling Asuka and so forth. The healing process has only just begun, as it were, but the film does leave you feeling that things can get better now. (I'm also sure my intrepretation of the film is not the only one, as I've done my digging on the different Eva sites and forums.) It's not a perfect film, but I do feel it is a fitting end to the Eva saga.
Um, right. Does that in any way answer your question?
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
EoE is flawed, yeah. The entire series of Eva is something I'd call a flawed masterpiece. An incredible work of art, with some serious blemishes.
However, even stating that, I did think EoE was incredible. It's not a movie I can just watch often, due to how dark and depressing the first half is, and how bizarre the second half is.
If I had to sum up why I think EoE is great, I'd say the feelings involved. It causes intense unpleasant feelings, but it's causing them on purpose. The artistry of showing reality fading away, chaos and madness and the END of everything in the second half is to me impressive, in one of those fun postmodernist manners.
In addition, in a way, the way you feel about the ending reflects things about yourself, more than the work itself. Due to the nature of the ending, there are nearly infinite variations of feelings and interpretations that people can give. Snail gave the feeling of the end as upbeat. I didn't see that, and saw it rather differently. He says things can only go up. I see the ending and witness utter emptiness in the most total way imaginable. "How disgusting." Or, in japanese, the unclear "kimochi warui" seems, to me, a statement which gives a bizarre finality to the whole thing. I have to admit, watching the movie leaves me feeling empty inside at the end.
However. All this stuff is unrelated to the real reason I like the movie so much.
That reason is simple. I really, really enjoy watching it. *shrugs* I dunno why, but I really do. It causes an intensity in feeling in me I don't get from most other things. Then again, I really like dark movies. And this one is pretty much the darkest movie I've ever seen.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Most every anime watcher I know now regrets Evangelion obsession and no longer likes the series.
I don't know why since I'm not in a position to judge anime. But it seems so commonly referred to as that premature love.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I dunno, my view of the anime HAS changed over the years. When I was younger, I felt like Shinji. Now that I'm inbetween Shinji and Misato in age, I don't feel as much connection with the boy, but a... different kind of feeling. The whole thing strikes me slightly differently. And what I like about it seems to have changed slightly too.
I still consider it the best. My first time with Eva was 14. Now I'm 20. It's been my favorite consistently throughout all those six years.
I mean, I've seen some other amazing anime. But Eva is still, simply, the best. To me, at least. I never outgrew it. Twenty years from now when I'm teaching film, I may use the series as a teaching tool.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Hmm. I don't know. People do still gush about it here in Finland.
Like 0Megabyte I've been a fan of the show for quite some years now - and am still one.
Perhaps it's that Evangelion's animation could look a bit dated now compared to newer animes. Or maybe that the show has become too "mainstream" in that it seems to be one of those shows that even people not into anime have either seen or heard of.
It's also true that many of Eva's new ideas, while revolutionary in their own time, have since been incorporated into many other anime shows.
But still... For me Eva has stood the test of time quite well. Now, the anime that I think is outdated and can't understand why people would gush about anymore, is Akira...
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Perhaps it's that Evangelion's animation could look a bit dated now compared to newer animes. Or maybe that the show has become too "mainstream" in that it seems to be one of those shows that even people not into anime have either seen or heard of.
I've not heard that.
I asked around. The answers I got were thusly:
quote:Evangelion is an exercise in the pseudoprofound. We just had to mature enough as viewers to recognize that meaningless, confusing imagery isn't deep, it's hollow.
quote:Evangelion has not aged gracefully in the collective memory of its former viewers.
It's now the "I was young and impressionable! I was new to anime! I thought it was artsy!" recollection.
posted
Eva was one of the first few animes i really got into. i like weird stories like that though. i actually hate big robot / mech anime, but i liked eva. End of Eva was great IMO. i really liked how f'ed up it was. i also think i like how every character had a flaw.
It's no Serial Experiment Lain or GITS:SAC though. i really dont like animes that can go on forever and the same good guys are after the same bad guys forever, and they always seem to just find more ways to get stronger and still dont ever kill anyone.
Posts: 813 | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
With Eva, you have to realize what's meaningless and what isn't. I think it's great artistry, though I do disagree with much of its philosophy now.
The Christian themes were there just to look cool. (and they did and do!) The characters are still very well done, complicated, complex, interesting, flawed, and tragic. The intensity of their feelings in their situation was pretty real, and though literally everyone was fracking crazy, they were still incredibly well-made.
As for pseudoprofoundity. It isn't particularly profound, no, I'll agree to that. It hasn't reached the level that Dune (the novel version) has or some other stories have. It gives a good visual representation to aspects of the human psyche. The meaning comes from whatever you decide to put into it, not what it itself possesses.
It's an intense emotional experience, a story that has a lot of really good things happen in it.
In addition, the story was a deconstruction of all the anime stereotypes. It asked, at least in part, what people like those were REALLY like, what situations like that would REALLY do to people. And answered them, in a horribly painful way.
More than that, I guess it's something that, for me, is enjoyable. I buy the story. It affects me, causes me to feel a lot of emotions, feel empathy for the characters and, in the end, allows me to feel just as empty and hallow as the characters themselves are in the end situation.
Its entertaining! I guess that's what I get from it, and why I still love the show so. I don't feel it's some profound mystical thing, it's just a really good story that gets really post-modernist at the end.
I'll surpass it someday, though. I'll make a show that is what most people think Eva was supposed to be. It'll be really cool, just you wait! Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Agreed with every word of 0Megabyte's last post.
Yeah, I can see how people could become disillusioned with the show if they thought it was actually about religion or the Meaning of Life or something big like that... it is not. It's about the characters and what they go through. It's about the emotions.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
And few characters have ever struck so close to reality as those poor saps in Eva.
I mean, come on. My brother, who has a medical master's degree, was even able to list their mental disorders for me! Because they have real ones! It was crazy.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: And few characters have ever struck so close to reality as those poor saps in Eva.
I mean, come on. My brother, who has a medical master's degree, was even able to list their mental disorders for me! Because they have real ones! It was crazy.
What would Shinji's be? As a hero (or non), I didn't like him at all.
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I was mostly interested in Evangelion because of the widely publicized "dual story" that takes place, depending on whether you watched the prepped subtitles or the lit. trans. of the Japanese.
It was entertaining to watch, and I still enjoy it, but it's definitely not on the zomg pedestal anymore. There are too many far, far superior shows.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Evangelion is an exercise in the pseudoprofound. We just had to mature enough as viewers to recognize that meaningless, confusing imagery isn't deep, it's hollow.
This is selling Evangelion short. The series is profound, to a certain extent. Through the particular suffering of each different character, the series captures an important aspect of modern society - that we create our own suffering internally, through the ideas or rules we impose upon ourselves and shape our world with. We protect ourselves by dividing ourselves from others, but in doing that inevitably end up hurting ourselves. I would say that message is both profound and applicable to real lives.
The trouble is that, as with many somewhat profound things, fans latched on to it and took it way too far. Evangelion is not a guide to life. And it isn't saying anything that hasn't been said in other ways elsewhere. It doesn't really merit an obsession - but that is probably true for any work of television, film, or literature.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
" Through the particular suffering of each different character, the series captures an important aspect of modern society - that we create our own suffering internally, through the ideas or rules we impose upon ourselves and shape our world with. We protect ourselves by dividing ourselves from others, but in doing that inevitably end up hurting ourselves. I would say that message is both profound and applicable to real lives. "
Good point. I haven't heard it described so cogently before, but that's precisely the message of the darned show.
And again, you're right. It doesn't merit obsession. But thank you for pointing out clearly precisely the reason why I think Eva is NOT a load of BS.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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A question I'm too lazy to start its own thread for: has anyone else here read Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's Neon Genesis Evangelion manga? If so what do you think of it?
I've read it up to the end of volume 7 (48th chapter with Kaworu's first appearance) and I have to say I don't feel that it's shaping up to be anywhere near the classic the anime is. In many ways it reads like what Eva would have been without the more intense psychological aspects - you know, had it been just your standard shounen anime show. Shinji's a lot more... decisive than in the anime. More like your standard anime hero.
Not that the manga is all bad. Some characters I actually feel are fleshed out better in it - Kaji and Toji for example. And the character of Rei is also done exactly right. But overall the manga is not up to the anime's standards.
I'm curious though, does anyone know if the manga is finished or not? And if it is does anyone know how it ends? The EoE way... or some other way? Because I wouldn't mind being spoiled...
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Evangelion is an exercise in the pseudoprofound. We just had to mature enough as viewers to recognize that meaningless, confusing imagery isn't deep, it's hollow.
This is selling Evangelion short. The series is profound, to a certain extent. Through the particular suffering of each different character, the series captures an important aspect of modern society - that we create our own suffering internally, through the ideas or rules we impose upon ourselves and shape our world with. We protect ourselves by dividing ourselves from others, but in doing that inevitably end up hurting ourselves. I would say that message is both profound and applicable to real lives.
The trouble is that, as with many somewhat profound things, fans latched on to it and took it way too far. Evangelion is not a guide to life. And it isn't saying anything that hasn't been said in other ways elsewhere. It doesn't really merit an obsession - but that is probably true for any work of television, film, or literature.
This is perhaps the most apt description of Eva and the long term fan reactions to it that I've ever read.
As for me, I first saw Eva when I was about 15. I'm 23 now and I still like the original series and EoE. I can't really give a worthwhile critique though. It's been at least 2 or 3 years since I've actually sat down and watched them, but with all this Eva talk, I have the urge to do so again now.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Isn't that the trick, though? It's one of those shows you can watch again and again. It's not the kind that you feel "okay, been there, done that, it's over."
It's too deep for that, and watching it again is something that always leads to something new and interesting. At least, that's my experience, seeing it maybe ten times total over the years.
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