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Author Topic: Arguments and Misunderstandings
Christine
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Hi everyone!

Yesterday on another message board, I ended up getting into it with someone over a misunderstanding -- a poor wording choice on both our parts. I decided to try to be the bigger person and apologize for my share of the misunderstanding, but she rewarded that apology with more attacks and insults. I tried again, privately, to get things smoothed over (it was such a simple misunderstanding) and once again was lambasted.

The details are unimportant. Most of you probably have your own examples, if you've been on message boards much.

What I find myself wondering, in the wake of all that, is what I could have done differently? I freely admitted that my word choice was poor and apologized and it almost seemed as if she used that apology as a sign of weakness and continued a brutal assault.

How have you dealt with misunderstandings and arguments in the past? What works and what doesn't work?

(I figure, since this is a message board, that it couldn't hurt to discuss this, especially while nobody on this board is directly involved with my motivation for posting. [Smile] )

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pooka
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I've been coming to terms with the whole concept of apology lately. I had always thought it was better to go with the "soft answer turneth away wrath" but I think there are times it reveals weakness. There are also cases where an apology isn't enough, though that's all you can really give on an internet forum.

When I was in eighth grade my sister read me this short story by O. Henry, I believe it was, about "The Sheep", a brother in law of the narrator who was forever apologizing. Well. I think of that sometimes. Wonder if I'm being a sheep.

I think when I apologize insincerely or just to keep peace, it creates a lie in my soul, like a bug under the frosting.

P.S. Are you the same Christine from the writer's workshop? Just curious.

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MightyCow
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Some people (especially online) are just jerks. I've learned that you can't take anonymous internet communications too seriously. I've been in and around many situations where one or more people react on a completely unwarranted scale, and refuse to work towards common ground.

It's great that Hatrack has a lot of cool people, such that even in heated topics and when someone uses a poor word choice or gets too hot under the collar, generally everyone can make up and get over it. Lots of places have more than their share of dill-holes.

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Olivet
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That, my dear, is when you call out the Drama Prairie Dog and wash your hands of the hysterical person.

Some time ago, people here discovered how to break threads, and some did it on purpose. I got more upset abbout it than I should have, because their supporters kept saying it was impossible to do what they had done. Thankfully, the upgrades are in place now so that it IS actually impossible to do what they did. I think it bothered my sense of fairness that they would admit to me in private that they did it and then taunt me by denying it publicly. I knew it was just to irritate me, so I let it go and apologized for getting so upset.

I did all I could do to mend things, but it didn't seem to matter. Then one day, like, two years later, the person found me in chat and apologized. *shrug* Sometimes people surprise you, even long after it seems plausible that they will do so.

So, you never know. The person may come off their rage high and come around, or not. The key is that you really shouldn't care. You did your best to make amends, and you're clean. Let them live their little fantasy in which you are the antichrist. [Dont Know]

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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
I've been coming to terms with the whole concept of apology lately. I had always thought it was better to go with the "soft answer turneth away wrath" but I think there are times it reveals weakness. There are also cases where an apology isn't enough, though that's all you can really give on an internet forum.

When I was in eighth grade my sister read me this short story by O. Henry, I believe it was, about "The Sheep", a brother in law of the narrator who was forever apologizing. Well. I think of that sometimes. Wonder if I'm being a sheep.

I think when I apologize insincerely or just to keep peace, it creates a lie in my soul, like a bug under the frosting.

P.S. Are you the same Christine from the writer's workshop? Just curious.

Yes, I am the same Christine from the writer's forum....but that's not the "other" forum I was talking about. [Smile]

I try not to give insincere apologies anymore, either. I used to have a boyfriend in college that I dealt with that way and it was an untenable situation. It was a bad relationship, really -- he would accept my apologies in the end and go on thinking he was always right.

In this chase, I didn't give an insincere apology. I did choose a poor choice of words -- basically stating an opinion as a fact. Still, I'm getting less and less sorry for it. [Smile]

Probably, the best thing to have done would have been not to respond at all, but I have a tendency to want to be a peacemaker.

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rivka
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And I don't think that's a bad thing. In situations like that, where I realize I am in the wrong, I apologize.

Once. [Smile]

The other person gets to choose whether to accept my apology, but nothing else. If they don't, I've done my part and can ignore them from that point on. If they do, then we coo'. [Wink]

I don't apologize for their sake; I apologize for my own.

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pooka
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Umbrage is strangely heady stuff. I have a theory that people like poison for some curious reason, as is typified with alcohol but ranges to knuckle popping and other compulsive habits.
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BlackBlade
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I've always had a nagging notion that when you admit that you were wrong or that your opinion is flawed that sometimes people look at you as less reliable because of it.

But I suppose the alternative is to insist you are right all the time and either come across as a jerk or incomprehensible in the endless quest to never be wrong.

If you have indeed flat out apologized, you are good to go so long as you indeed feel bad about the behavior and do not continue it, "I apologize for being rude but you ARE being a jerk!" is what you shouldn't do.

If your opponent won't let it drop then wash your hands of the matter and move on. If they hound you tell them to stop immedietly and report them to an admin if they do not.

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BlueWizard
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One thing you need to know about Internet Flame Wars -

"When to say 'when'".

Spontaneous written discussions are much different than in-person verbal conversations. In in-person conversations, everything is spontaneous and dynamic; statements come and go, and the conversation moves on. In internet discussions, there is time to ponder each word and phrase for meaning and intent.

I think you will find most Internet 'flames' are based on, not overall intent of the writer, but on the personal, and frequently biased, interpretation of a word or phrase.

So, you make your case, you clarify and repeat your points, you restate yourself, but eventually you have to accept that the other person simply will not or can not 'get it'. Then it is time to move on. If things got heated, and you said things you regret, you apologies, but your apology and good grace does not hinge on the other person's acceptance. You do/did the right thing, and then you move on.

The saving grace of Internet discussions, is knowing when it's time to walk away and move on. If the other person simply doesn't have that grace, then that's their problem, not yours.

Steve/BlueWizard

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Olivet
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I've always had a nagging notion that when you admit that you were wrong or that your opinion is flawed that sometimes people look at you as less reliable because of it.


I think this is true, but I do not know why anyone should care if an unreasonable person thinks less of you for being human. That is to say, occasionally wrong. [Wink]

I would like to point out that I it is always worth the effort to make amends and understand the other person's point of view. Several people that I've bumped heads with over the years have ended up being very worthwhile relationships later on.

Now, on LJ I know this one lady who prides herself on being able to hold a grudge forever. I tried to explain a misunderstanding on her part of something I said ended up being so long (a couple paragraphs) that she interpreted it as an attack, and I had to go back and say, "I didn't mean it as an attack. I only wanted to explain so you wouldn't misunderstand what I meant." (It was the line in The Desiderata about "loud persons" which she somehow thought meant I disdained the company of activists. O_O I know. *shakes head* ) She avoided me for a long time. I kind of thought it was funny. *shrug* Sometimes, people just have a need to interpret whatever you say or do in the worst possible light.

But if apologizing or admitting when I'm wrong makes me weak, then frell being "strong." It's so much better to be honest and true to yourself.

If, however, the only way to mend things is to kowtow and and agree that they are always nice and never make a mistake... That's a relationship I'd say probably isn't in your best interests to mend.

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Jon Boy
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I've always had a nagging notion that when you admit that you were wrong or that your opinion is flawed that sometimes people look at you as less reliable because of it.

I've found that when you never admit you're wrong, people tend to think you're arrogant. Some people may decide you're unreliable when you admit you were wrong, but I think most people will appreciate your humility, as Olivet said.
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Trogdor the Burninator's Mom
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Humility is overrated. [Evil]
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Olivet:
But if apologizing or admitting when I'm wrong makes me weak, then frell being "strong."

I cannot agree with this enough.

I am MORE likely to trust someone who can admit when they are wrong, not less.

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Battler03
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Olivet:
But if apologizing or admitting when I'm wrong makes me weak, then frell being "strong."

I cannot agree with this enough.

I am MORE likely to trust someone who can admit when they are wrong, not less.

Unfortunately, some will take your admission of a typo as concession of the entire debate. I've seen it on every message board I've ever posted on.
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rivka
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Some people are idiots.

What else is new?

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Tatiana
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Hatrack has taught me, some time in the last 10 years, not to argue. It just doesn't pay any returns. I read and think about everyone's views, I state my view, I may even clarify when misunderstood, if it seems worthwhile, or else answer points someone else makes, but then I just stop. That can give some people the idea that they've "won", I suppose. I think getting the last word has great value to some people online. It doesn't really to me anymore. Hatrack has taught me that.

The person who gets the last word is not usually the wisest, that I've seen, just the most dogged. [Smile]

The real value in discussions online is that people expose themselves to the vastly different ideas that can be held by intelligent and well-meaning people. You can GAIN that benefit for yourself by reading and discussing things. Whether the other people in the discussion also gain is completely up to them.

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Mike
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If I see a person being unfairly attacked, as in this instance, I lose a certain amount of respect for the attacker and his opinions. I suspect most people react similarly. So it really comes down to whose opinion you care about.
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Javert Hugo
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Never, ever admitting to be wrong or ignorant does not make someone look omniscient - it makes them unreliable. I know a few people that take a great deal of pride in always having the answer, and it quickly becomes very apparent that when they do not know, they make some crap up and expect you to believe it. That they are willing to fake it and lie about their ignorance means everything they say is suspect and I can only rely on the information that I can verify elsewhere or quickly test for myself.
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