As I think I've mentioned before, I auditioned for my university's production of "Einstein and the Roosevelts," a show for which I was called back three times for the title role of Eleanor Roosevelt. Unfortunately, however, I did not get cast. My three roommates next year (including my boyfriend) are all cast in leading roles. So either way, whether I participate in the chorus or not, I will be miserable. I've already spent the last three weeks feeling miserable about this.
If I do the chorus, I'll spend the whole time being upset that my time is being wasted while my three roommates are so busy... also, I'll feel resentful every time the girl playing Eleanor does anything. I can't help it... those are all thoughts that will run through my head.
On the other hand, if I decide not to participate in the production, I'll get depressed every evening when all three of my roommates disappear to hours of rehearsal while I'm left alone at our duplex. Many of my friends are involved somehow in the show, and even if I hang out with other people, I will still feel really upset and left out. Plus, I'm going to have to go see it anyway, both because my boyfriend is in it, and because I'm required to go to performances involving people in my studio, and all three of my roommates are in my studio. I already know that I get upset by these things because the same thing happened in the production of "Our Town." My boyfriend (as well as many others) was cast, I was not, I was depressed, and I was left alone all the time. And ultimately, I had to go see the show, which I liked a lot, but did not exactly make me feel better.
I'm sorry if I sound petty, but I really am torn and need help. What should I do? It's a lose-lose situation, and I could really use some advice.
posted
I think by participating in the chorus would be the most beneficial. One- you've already proven that you have a lot of talent and so the show could you use it well enough.
And more importantly to you- you'll be spending time with your friends. It may not be the optimal situation- but make the best of what you can get. Spend time with your friends and just be appreciative that they are there and your boyfriend and just have fun hanging out with them at rehearsal and whatnot.
You said you also didn't participate once before. It didn't really make you feel good. Try something different this time.
Posts: 980 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I'll echo that you should go ahead and participate in whatever way you can.
You can't equate your success as a musician with not getting the lead role every single time. When you get out of college, you'll be taking chorus roles--and so will the leads in the show you're in now. Do you really think it would be a waste of your time?
There's a deeper reason for you getting depressed/miserable/jealous whenever you don't get the part and your friends do. It's only a lose-lose situation because you've set it up that way. You've already decided to be miserable! Why would you do that to yourself? Instead--choose to make the best of the situation, so that it's win-win either way. Attitude is everything in music (and in life, imo). I really think if you put the music first, you'll be a happier music major. Remember that what you're doing is FUN and fulfilling (when you put the work into it).
Also--having extra time is a blessing. More time to practice! To work on the next project!
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:It's only a lose-lose situation because you've set it up that way.
This is the key point. You only have a problem here insofar as your create one for yourself.
So, I'd suggest treat it as a learning experience - learning how to control the attitude that you approach something like this with.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I really am trying to do that, but I've been met with SO much rejection this year, it's getting harder to look at it that way. :/
Thanks, though. I'll take that into consideration, and probably do chorus anyway. It's not that I think it would be a waste of my time, that was a bad choice of words. It's more that I would be just as depressed doing that, especially as I don't have much to do and all my friends do.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
It may be that they cast on a characteristic rather than pure quality for Eleanor. I mean, holy crap. Singing Eleanor? What were people thinking?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Raia: I really am trying to do that, but I've been met with SO much rejection this year, it's getting harder to look at it that way. :/
It probably has something to do with the fact that you are trying to get into many things. You don't expect to get every single role, do you? Maybe this year has been harder than the norm, but that's not a reason to stop looking. I'd say, go sing in the chorus and keep trying to get new roles; all of this will be part of your life, you have to get used to it, the sooner the better.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I too think you should participate. Faced with being miserable and left alone or being miserable but at least having something to do, I'd choose having something to do.
I'm sorry this is hard on you. I tend to take things too personally sometimes, and I KNOW what I'm feeling is my own fault-- but that doesn't help while I'm feeling it. (((hugs)))
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
!! Also !! Learn the lead's parts. You know better than anyone that people get sick at the wrong time.
You've REALLY got to stop telling yourself to be depressed about this, because the Pygmalion effect is real. If you decide to be depressed ahead of time, you will be.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Ok... thanks guys. I'll think about it, and most likely sing in the chorus. I'm sure things will look different a little bit down the road.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I'm going to sound kind of harsh here - please understand I don't say this just to be mean.
But, you really need to examine your attitudes and decide whether this is a career path you should pursue or not. You are allowing yourself to feel jealousy and anger when you don't get cast in the role you want and consider chorus "a waste of time" which really translates to "a waste of MY talent."
This is not the attitude you want for this type of career. Maybe you're not emotionally cut out for it.
Regardless, if you stay in this field you really need to work on your attitude and how you handle rejection. While venting here is certainly a healthy thing, your posts worry me about how you think about performing and how you see other people. If you allow resentment from what roles people were cast in to affect your relationships - that's not a good thing.
My advice is DON'T take the chorus part. Because I've worked in community theater and I wouldn't want someone who was seething with resentment because she didn't get cast in the lead in my show. I'd much rather make do without you, because you'll only bring negative energy to the set.
So, if you don't think you can put your disappointement aside and be joyful and happy for your friends and give the chorus part your all because you want to be the best you can, regardless of where you're cast - then decline. You'll only be doing the show a disservice if you accept under any other circumstances.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Ok, you're right. That is harsh. Unnecessarily so. I do not appreciate comments like that when I am merely asking for advice on whether or not to participate in the chorus of a show. But since you have discourteously added your opinion of me as a professional, I will go ahead and address some points of yours that I found particularly jarring.
First of all, I have been met with a great deal of rejection this year. Most situations are such that I did not get in at all, or was not given an opportunity to do so. In fact, my only success this year was the opera... and several of my friends were not met with the same success, and were pretty miserable about it. Some of them decided to participate in the chorus, some did not. The latter attended the performances anyway, to support their friends, something that I fully intend to do if I decide not to participate in the show. Both sides are difficult.
Secondly, I am offended that you assume I will stand on stage as a chorus member seething with resentment at the leads. Part of my dilemma in taking this chorus position is trying to decide, not if it is a waste of my time (as I've already stated was a bad choice of words on my part, check my earlier post), but whether or not I can participate in the chorus and really give it my all, or if my feelings will get in the way. I would like you to know that I am professional enough to NOT bring my personal distresses to the stage, and therefore am torn as to whether or not I should participate.
I would also like to tell you that usually my self-confidence is dismal. I am working on that, and it is much better, but normally it is terrible. For this production, however, I was fairly certain that I would get the part. I don't mean to sound cocky, but I was the only female candidate to be called back three times, and I was told by the director (and I quote): "It is no secret that you are the primary consideration for this role." So, therefore, my disappointment was greater than it would normally be under these circumstances. Anyone with half a sympathetic feeling can understand that.
Finally, the reason I have been posting about this a lot this year is that I am now in a position that I have never been in before. I am dating someone who does the same thing I do. While I do not intend to let this bother me forever, there is certainly some adjusting to do. That does not mean that I am letting it affect my relationships. On the contrary, I am finding other outlets, such as Hatrack and counseling, to try and curb my feelings of jealousy and disappointment. I believe that that is the healthy way to deal with my problems, instead of either bottling them up or taking them out on players in the situation that have nothing to do with my personal feelings. If you and others would rather I did not bring these feelings to Hatrack, I will gladly take them elsewhere. I was under the impression that Hatrack is a nurturing environment to which I can unleash some of these emotions and not get overly chastised for it. Apparently I was wrong.
Believe me, nobody questions whether or not I am "cut out or this profession" more than I do. I ask myself that almost daily. But I believe that I can do it, and my teacher believes that I can do it... and my love and passion for it will also help in keeping me going.
If you have nothing positive to say, Belle, I would kindly ask that you stay out of my thread. Thank you.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
You asked for opinions and you did not state that you only wanted positive ones. Specifically you asked for "advice" which is a long way from asking for "support." Next time, specify you only want positive support, and I'll stay out of it, or only offer support.
quote:Secondly, I am offended that you assume I will stand on stage as a chorus member seething with resentment at the leads.
I don't think my assumption was all that unfounded, when you yourself said in the original post:
quote:If I do the chorus, I'll spend the whole time being upset that my time is being wasted while my three roommates are so busy... also, I'll feel resentful every time the girl playing Eleanor does anything. I can't help it... those are all thoughts that will run through my head.
I admit I added the verb "seethe" but you yourself used the word "resentful."
quote:Part of my dilemma in taking this chorus position is trying to decide, not if it is a waste of my time (as I've already stated was a bad choice of words on my part, check my earlier post), but whether or not I can participate in the chorus and really give it my all, or if my feelings will get in the way. I would like you to know that I am professional enough to NOT bring my personal distresses to the stage, and therefore am torn as to whether or not I should participate.
Either you've contradicted yourself, or I don't understand your point. You say you're professional enough not to let your feeling get in the way, but then you say you don't know if you should do it because your feelings WILL get in the way. You said in the OP you "can't help it"...which doesn't make me think you indeed can be professional enough to lay your feelings aside.
quote:If you and others would rather I did not bring these feelings to Hatrack, I will gladly take them elsewhere. I was under the impression that Hatrack is a nurturing environment to which I can unleash some of these emotions and not get overly chastised for it. Apparently I was wrong.
No one said don't bring these posts here. I even said:
quote:While venting here is certainly a healthy thing,
No one is saying you shouldn't bring these posts to Hatrack. One thing about this community however, people are generally very honest, and they will tell you what they think. In other words - don't ask for advice if you really don't want to hear advice. Next time, say in the thread that you are looking for support and well wishes, and I would be the last person to post criticism in that thread. But instead you said:
quote:What should I do? It's a lose-lose situation, and I could really use some advice.
That sounds like someone who wants to hear whether or not we actually think she should do the show. With my (admitedly limited) experience working with community theater and directing young people in muscials for my church - I don't want anyone in my show who doesn't want to be there. You described this situation as "lose-lose" which tells me you probably don't need to do it. Now, if you can change your attitude about it - then by all means you should do it. You indicated that your attitude has changed and you no longer consider it a "waste of time" If that's the case - then go forth, sing, perform, do well, I wish you the best.
If you are in any type of performance or creative profession, you'll need to be able to handle rejection, and constructive criticism. Many times that criticism will take a form much, much harsher than what I presented here. Since you say you are continuing to question whether you belong in this profession, you may want to examine your reaction to my comments as part of that process.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I asked for advice, yes, not criticism. Advice is why or why not you think I should participate, not telling me that my fears and feelings of disappointment are unfounded. I appreciate your input, and I did not want specifically well-wishes, but I DO think that you were unqualified to say everything that you did. That's all.
My reaction to your comments has nothing to do with my ability to be a performer. As you said, your experience is limited, and you also do not know ME at all. So while it's true that I was upset by your comments, I stand by my convictions.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Getting a role in the chorus isn't rejection - it's acceptance in the chorus.
Nobody gets the lead role every time. Even professional actors often have minor parts in movies and theater.
From my own experience in theater and music performance, one needs to either develop a thick skin about criticism and rejection, or needs to develop an optimistic outlook, where every minor part is a success, and every rejection is a learning opportunity.
Anyone who isn't ready or able to make that mental and emotional commitment isn't ready to be a performer.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I do realize that it is unreasonable to expect the lead role every time. My frustration, however, stems from NOT getting it EVERY TIME. Also, the fact that I was literally so close that the director went ahead and told me I was probably going to get it.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
That's definitely a huge bummer. Still--you've only been doing this for a few years. You've got time, and if you know what to work at to get what you want, keep at it and you WILL be successful, depending on how YOU view success.
Also--I want to defend the heart of Belle's post--which was really just that you might want to examine your attitude about what you're doing, how you're approaching it (something I've been harping on, too). Nothing she said was accusation, and I think you took it that way, which made your reaction seem defensive and harsh. Belle was just saying "if this is how you feel about it, your attitude is the problem"--and I wouldn't disagree with that. Luckily--you ARE taking a positive approach and it's not an issue.
I don't think Belle crossed any lines, though, and she DOES know the musician's lifestyle more than you might know. I think what she posted IS positive, and you'd be doing yourself a disservice not to consider it.
Posts: 1314 | Registered: Jan 2006
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I'm sorry. I did not mean to antagonize you openly, especially since it apparently came off harsh and without substance. I AM considering what you said, but I do feel that you were unnecessarily rude in your original statement. I think that that was what upset me the most, not the crux of what you said. Although I do think that you ignored some of the facts of my case before you pounced. Again, I am sorry, and I value your opinion. So thanks.
Thank you to Belle and to others for your advice. I am trying to take a positive approach, and if I was not looking at this logically, it's because I was venting. It has been a rough time lately, especially since there are so many OTHER stresses, outside of performance. Maybe I should have waited to vent about this until I was in a more healthy frame of mind.
I'll make the decision this summer.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
My advice to anybody seriously considering the arts as a career is: have a backup plan, a solid backup plan, and it better be something you like.
Posts: 3354 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Raia, I know where you are coming from. I did theater in high school and when I didn't get the parts I wanted and was put in the chorus, I was upset. I admit to jealousy and have refused a place in the chorus due to it. I am not going to tell you what to do, but if I were in your spot, I would not be in the chorus. I do know that the jealousy will only get worse if you aren't learning how to deal with the rejection. I would talk to someone in the field that you respect and discuss these feelings with them. It may be hard to talk about, but I think it will help.
Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Do you think you could talk to the director and ask him what you could do in your auditions to improve you chances of getting a part?
Find out what you need to improve like acting, singing, attitude?
I have a hard time really understanding your position exactly, simply because I have always been willing to accept a chorus part, and just thrilled to be included in a show. I just don't have experience with feeling jealous and resentful about not getting the part I wanted.
Can you find a way to be happy about being in the chorus? Really the chorus is a good way to make connections and get to know other people. It is a good way to show that you are easy to work with and follow directions. It is a good way to be helpful in a show. In my experience, directors remember people with good attitudes who want to help make the show a success. That is a good thing to be remembered for.
edit: I say this because, as a director, I remember everyone who made my life more difficult with their attitudes, but I also remember the people who did their best and have good attitudes.
Although only community theatre, my viewpoint is informed from the performer's, the stage parent's, AND the director's viewpoint, and I hope it has value for you.
Posts: 772 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I had a long talk with my friend's daughter about this very issue. Acting and performing in general is more about rejection than acceptance. A director is not looking for a reason to give someone the part although at times favoritism does win out. The director or whoever is giving the auditions is looking for any reason to eliminate everyone except one person. My friend's daughter didn't even make chorus and she was very bummed but she wanted to be part of the show. I asked her if she was willing to do any job to be a part of the show and she said yes. She went to the director and practically begged to be a part of it and she was offered stage crew. She took the position and really worked hard for the show and did everything and anything that was asked of her. I'd like to say that there was a happier ending but she didn't get a part at all in the play other than stage crew. Yes, stage crew is a vital part of any production and I am not trying to disrespect them in any way. After the show ran she talked to the director and found out a wealth of information that she is using this year. The director even echoed my comments on rejection. Her first words were get very used to the word 'No' because you are going to hear it many many many times. You did say you were venting a bit and that is very necessary at times. I really like mimsies post above. She stated some very good advice much better than I have.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by mimsies: Do you think you could talk to the director and ask him what you could do in your auditions to improve you chances of getting a part?
I second this...but don't do it in person. Send the director a respectful email and ask if he or she has any notes in relation to your audition.
Other than that, I can only echo the advice already given to you. I'm an actor myself, and rejection is a huge part of the game. It's difficult, and occasionally depressing, but you honestly get used to it after a while.
Posts: 3852 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I have spoken to the director. I didn't throw any of this frustration or disappointment at him, of course, but I did tell him that I felt I had been particularly close this time, and just wanted to know what it was that finally eliminated me, or what I could improve for next time. He e-mailed me back and said he wanted to talk to me about it, so we set up an appointment.
I wasn't terribly satisfied with his answer, though I did take some things away from it. But long story short, I have spoken to him. And again, yes, I am mostly venting here, so I guess "advice" was the wrong word. Though I did want to know what to do about the chorus role.
Every role that I have been rejected from in my life, if there was an option to perform in the chorus, I have. Always, and without bitterness. This time is a special case for me BECAUSE of how close I was, and the fact that the director all but told me I was going to get it. I still think that I will, but I wanted to bring it up. Does all of that make sense?
Like you said, Javert, it is occasionally depressing. This is one of those occasions. Honestly, this semester is the first time that I have felt depressed about my performance career, and just didn't know (yet) how to deal with it. I realize that the times I am depressed are the times I tend to post, and therefore it seems that I am always angry and bitter. But that's not true. I have participated in many many productions as a chorus member, and will, in all likelihood, do so again. Just, now, I feel a little more disappointed than I normally do.
Posts: 7877 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
My advice would be to figure out what you need to do differently, and make some changes. A feeling of failure can be a tremendous incentive to make positive changes.
It's obvious that something isn't working if you keep going to lead roles and keep getting chorus parts. Figure out what it is, even if it's simply that there are only 6 leads and 300 people who want them, and see how you can improve, or change your outlook, so the next time either you'll get the part, or you won't feel so much disappointment in not getting the part.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Raia, I'm sorry to also sound harsh, but I'm going to have to side with Belle's point of view here - and I do have significant experience to back up my opinion.
As a performer you need to be thick-skinned. If you want to perform, you should take the role you're given, unless you think it will negatively affect your career. You will get a lot of rejection, constantly and for years. You will get more rejection than acceptance and the roles you get will for years be lesser roles than the ones you covet.
A small example of how tough this world can be came on my own graduation day. I was the only one to graduate from my class that year, due to horrifically rigorous rehearsal and performance schedules throughout the year. As I walked onto campus for the last time, one of my lecturers accosted me on the street and in a deceptively kind and gentle (but really malicious and hurtful way) asked if I really thought I was cut out for this career and if I hadn't better think of doing something else.
On my freakin' graduation day. As the only graduate.
That's minor league compared to the kind of pettiness, jealousy, infighting, nepotism, bitchiness and downright underhanded behaviour that is typical of the industry.
The curse is, of course, that it's also just about the most rewarding thing you can do.
So my advice is - if you want to perform at all, take the role.
Chorus is fun: enjoy the mechanical perfection that is the transition between the frenetic pace of backstage and the violent calm of the stage. You can stand out as a chorus member too, you know - get a reputation as a reliable performer who never misses a beat. When they're sick of the prima donna's they'll turn to you. Directors love reliable.
But you can't shine if you're not onstage.
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I don't think the question should be "am I cut out for this?" It should be "will this make me happy?" For me, I used to love to write (still do, just don't have time). I realized though that the lifestyle of a writer is not the one I want to live. And so, I pursued a different career. I don't view that as a failure, just a decision. I don't know you, so this may not be true for you, just make sure you ask not just can I do this, but should I?
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
The only thing I'd like to add is that it's okay if something gets you down - that means you're alive. But how long you stay down is another matter. We say "thick skinned" but you have to have enough responsiveness to still act. To act you have to be changeable too, so if you can figure out using that changeableness to get over the funk once it's happend, that will not only make you happier, but I'd guess help you be a better actress. It's not about "controlling" the emotions so much as selecting them.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by scholarette: For me, I used to love to write (still do, just don't have time). I realized though that the lifestyle of a writer is not the one I want to live. And so, I pursued a different career.
I made this exact same decision. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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You don't expect to get every single role, do you? Maybe this year has been harder than the norm, but that's not a reason to stop looking. I'd say, go sing in the chorus and keep trying to get new roles; all of this will be part of your life, you have to get used to it, the sooner the better.
