FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Something found on Mars (and its not water!)

   
Author Topic: Something found on Mars (and its not water!)
SoaPiNuReYe
Member
Member # 9144

 - posted      Profile for SoaPiNuReYe           Edit/Delete Post 
I decided to try and redeem myself.
White House is Briefed on Mars...

quote:
It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface.
Edit because I stink

[ August 05, 2008, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: SoaPiNuReYe ]

Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Threads
Member
Member # 10863

 - posted      Profile for Threads   Email Threads         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm actually pretty interested in the announcement. They say that they haven't actually discovered life but it would be really cool if they detected amino acids or something along those lines (though I'm not even sure if Phoenix can detect that type of stuff).

EDIT: I should have read the second article before opening my trap.

quote:
Asked to speculate yesterday on what it may have now found, Dr Clarke said the instrument was designed, among other things, to spot dissolved ammonium and nitrate salts.
quote:
A later message adds: "Reports claiming there was a White House briefing are also untrue and incorrect."

Posts: 1327 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shigosei
Member
Member # 3831

 - posted      Profile for Shigosei   Email Shigosei         Edit/Delete Post 
It looks like they found perchlorate. This is an oxidizing chemical used as rocket fuel, and it doesn't bode well for life as we know it on Mars's surface.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoaPiNuReYe
Member
Member # 9144

 - posted      Profile for SoaPiNuReYe           Edit/Delete Post 
This is where everything gets confusing because I could have sworn reading somewhere else that scientists had once thought that the soil was toxic but that they don't think that's the case anymore.
quote:
The MECA instrument had already made the landmark discovery that Mars "soil" was much like the soil more familiar on Earth. This finding prompted scientists to indicate that the minerals and pH levels in the regolith could support some terrestrial plants, indicating this would be useful for future Mars settlers.

Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Starsnuffer
Member
Member # 8116

 - posted      Profile for Starsnuffer   Email Starsnuffer         Edit/Delete Post 
My brother's blog(primarily about mars) has some information/links to more information for those curious about the phoenix mission. /End shameless, but pertinent, plug.
Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
I would recommend changing the title of this thread....I almost didn't click on it because I didn't know what it would be about. [Smile]
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DDDaysh
Member
Member # 9499

 - posted      Profile for DDDaysh   Email DDDaysh         Edit/Delete Post 
My biggest dream as a teenager was to be a Matian colonist.... maybe one day one of my great-great-granchildren might get to!
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think that perchlorate is necessarily a "toxic" compound like they are describing it. Yes it is an oxidizing agent. So is oxygen. It might be toxic to many forms of Earth-life, but there are living things around deep sea vents, and in other "toxic" environments. In other words, one organism's toxic, could be another organism's necessity.
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
King of Men
Member
Member # 6684

 - posted      Profile for King of Men   Email King of Men         Edit/Delete Post 
I think, generally speaking, we don't particularly care if we can colonise Mars with extremophile bacteria. We want humans.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Threads
Member
Member # 10863

 - posted      Profile for Threads   Email Threads         Edit/Delete Post 
I think BannaOj was talking about the potential for life to exist on Mars, not what type of life we should create on Mars.
Posts: 1327 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
King of Men
Member
Member # 6684

 - posted      Profile for King of Men   Email King of Men         Edit/Delete Post 
If you're going to define 'toxic' with respect to hypothetical Martian organisms, the word becomes pretty meaningless. The compund is toxic to most Earth life, in particular to humans; that's what the writer would intend to say and what his readers would understand.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
If we find life anywhere else in the universe, I will be excited. Why the heck does it have to meet "human" standards? Planetary scientists think that imposing "human" requirements on life is complete idiocy. (I know, I've talked to some of the most prominent ones there are.)
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post 
But, while harmful to many earth organisms in sufficient concentration, there are earth organisms that like and consume perchlorate. So "toxic" isn't really the best description. If anything, it is heartening, as it makes it more likely we could get some earth plants and bacteria to live on Mars under current conditions.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Shigosei:
It looks like they found perchlorate. This is an oxidizing chemical used as rocket fuel, and it doesn't bode well for life as we know it on Mars's surface.

It's also far more likely that the perchlorate came from earth with the rocket than that it actually originated on Mars.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
Was that particular rocket actually propelled by KClO4?
Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post 
This is from what I would consider the "authoritative" scientific source. Nasa tends to water down things a bit.

http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/08_05_pr.php

Posts: 11265 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It's also far more likely that the perchlorate came from earth with the rocket than that it actually originated on Mars.
I dunno. Perchlorate is present in the boosters that got it off the ground, but not in the rockets used to assist in landing on Mars. Contamination in the payload from the booster rockets seems unlikely to me.

Edit to add: Perchlorate-based fuels are only used in solid boosters which have an uncontrolled burn - you can't throttle them or shut them off and restart them. Because of this they are only good for applying a lot of power all at once, but they wouldn't be used to make small corrections while in space or to manage a touch down.

Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aspectre
Member
Member # 2222

 - posted      Profile for aspectre           Edit/Delete Post 
Considering that there is an extreme shortage of atmospheric oxygen on Mars, the presense of perchlorates in the soil is a plus for the likelyhood of life. Earth's "perchlorate-eating" bacteria actually use the perchlorate as an oxygen substitute.

Among other amusing coincidences found in Robinson Crusoe on Mars*, "First, he burns some coal-like rocks for warmth and accidentally discovers that heating them gives off oxygen."

Be nice if the NASA coverage would name the types of perchlorates that Phoenix has found. The discovery of ammonium perchlorate would mean the presense of an exploitable quantity of nitrogen. And nitrogen is the only critical resource which would make a major Mars project economicly justifiable: everything else can be found&exploited more cheaply elsewhere.

* Made in 1964, well before the first Mars lander.

Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_raven
Member
Member # 3383

 - posted      Profile for Dan_raven   Email Dan_raven         Edit/Delete Post 
Actually the bad news--the Perchlorates are actually a hydrocarbon derivative.

The good news, finding oil on Mars has convinced President Bush to send men to mars before the end of his term.

The best news, the men going are headed by Cheney.

Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2