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It's almost here! I'm starting this thread so everyone can see and discuss plans.
Kama and I will be in London on that Saturday, and the day is free. We were thinking about taking a Ghost Tour that evening - what do you think? Hopelessly cheesy, perhaps, but I took one when I was in Prague and it was so much fun. What other ideas are there? Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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The British Museum has a special exhibit on Hadrian right now that's supposed to be awesome. Other fun things: Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's, the Globe Theatre, the Florence Nightengale Museum (don't knock it till you try it - I was surprised at how fascinating I found it!), the London Eye, and the Tower of London. Another fun thing you can do is to go into the theatre district (just north of Picadilly Circus) and see what's playing. Check out http://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/ - they have a lot of 2-for-1 offers.
I highly recommend the Globe, especially. Go for the tour and you might get lucky and be able to watch a rehearsal. And then come back in the evening for a play.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I would be thrilled with the British Museum exhibit on Hadrian, and I have also heard great things about Westminster Abbey.
I'd be fine with a play per day (my first trip to New York, I saw 4 Broadway shows in 2.5 days), and it's worth looking around.
I tried to get a Ghost Tour, but am having some trouble pinning anyone down for August. I did that in Prague and it was awesome, although all the London versions seem to start in early evening. The one in Prague started at eleven, which was perfect.
By then, I will have seen two plays...is there anything with singing and dancing anyone wants to see?
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I have no idea what's on, theatre or musical-wise, but I'll happily see anything you find interesting
I'm sorry, I'm hopeless as far as planning anything goes, but at least you will hear no complaints from me!
we'll definitely manage both British Museum and the Abbey, but I think that's all we'll have time for during the day.
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The British Museum and the Abbey sounds like an excellent day.
I'll keep looking for that evening - I sent some more e-mails concerning ghost tours, and I'll see if there's a way to get cheap tickets to something on the West End.
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I haven't heard about most of those but I'd quite like to see something is there something you like particularly?
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: It's almost here! I'm starting this thread so everyone can see and discuss plans.
Kama and I will be in London on that Saturday, and the day is free. We were thinking about taking a Ghost Tour that evening - what do you think? Hopelessly cheesy, perhaps, but I took one when I was in Prague and it was so much fun. What other ideas are there?
I took a ghost tour in London and it frankly sucked. You'd have a much better time on an honest pub crawl. More time to enjoy your drink, less chatter from some idiot tour guide who isn't even from london. But that's just me- not wanting to look like a tourist all the time.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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I was a bit disappointed in the British Museum. If you're going to Westminster Abbey, you're a hop, skip, and a jump away from the South Bank, which is my favorite bit of the world. You can see the London Eye and probably loads of street performers, there's a Foyle's (independent bookstores are wonderful!) and a massive bunch of stalls selling used books - they have a surprisingly good selection (I got four different biographies of Oscar Wilde there, plus the memoir his son wrote). If you want lunch, there's this place called Wagamama that is fantastically delicious (I advise you to try the chicken katsu curry) and is right next to Foyle's.
(Actually, Wagamama is a chain, and there are restaurants all over London. There's one by the Tower, there's one not far from the British Museum if you do end up going there - those are the ones I mostly frequented, but there are plenty more. It's heavenly food.)
Anyway back to the South Bank. If you keep walking down, you'll hit the Tate Modern, which I went to reluctantly and liked more than almost any of the other museums. Keep walking down and there will be the Globe - Timon of Athens is playing at 2, and The Merry Wives of Windsor at 7:30. Groundling tickets are five quid, and the seats aren't terribly expensive either.
Oh, and you'll also be right by the National, in case anything's playing there that you want to see.
Voila, my two cents. But whatever you do, honestly, eat at Wagamama. The last day before I flew home from England, I went to London, bought books at the South Bank book stalls, and ate at Wagamama. Heaven.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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1. I have no problem looking like a tourist. I am one. I have a Texas drawl, I intend to look at everything I can, and I don't have fake pride. No one will mistake me for anything but what I am.
2. I don't drink. This greatly lessens the appeal of a pub crawl.
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Why were you disappointed in the British museum? You are the second person to recommend the Tate Modern. I love used books, but there are lots of good used bookstores here and I don't want to drag a library around in my luggage.
I don't like Indian food. Is Wagamama all Indian food?
Hmm...I would like to see a Merry Wives of Windor at the Globe, I have to admit. So, fellow travelers! Ghosts of old London or Merry Wives of Windsor?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I'm not a big fan of Ghost Walks. They have a half dozen or so of them in York and it's all so cheesy. Go with proper theatre. The Globe is great, and I really wish I could have stayed for a show. From my experience, depend on seeing no more than three major attractions in a day. You could probably squeeze in the British Museum, Westminster, and the Globe, but check the last admission times. Except for Wednesday, the last admit to Westminster is 3pm.
I'm in England, Kama, but not in London. I was there for the first time a couple weeks ago, and I enjoyed it.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: 1. I have no problem looking like a tourist. I am one. I have a Texas drawl, I intend to look at everything I can, and I don't have fake pride. No one will mistake me for anything but what I am.
2. I don't drink. This greatly lessens the appeal of a pub crawl.
1. Please don't assume facts not in evidence about me. Having traveled quite a bit, and having been to London quite a few times, I know how to enjoy myself the way I want. I've lived for extended periods in England, and I am not a tourist when I am there. That isn't "fake pride," whatever you intend by it.
2. Ghost Tours are usually pub crawls with ghost stories. So you're not going to have that great a time stopping at pubs.
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it doesn't seem like the walk Kat found includes any pubs
And I don't think she was assuming anything about you, she was explaining why she doesn't mind "looking like a tourist all the time" (your own words, mind) Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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I spent an afternoon in the British National Museum in mid June. I highly recommend it, particularly if you are into archeology.
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I'm not so much into modern art, btw (as some of the ChicagoCon goers will confirm). British Museum sounds like more fun to me, personally.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Tate modern is a beautiful and interesting building... but the contents are sparse and sometimes very boring. It's worth seeing from a design point of view though, and it's right by the globe, so I always take an hour or so to see it. Thank goodness museums are free in London!
As to your earlier comment Kama, I find personally that unselfconscious tourists, Texas drawl or no, are some of the most annoying people alive, and they have the capacity for making others around them miserable. Tourists that don't appreciate (as in: pay mind to) the cultural and social differences between the U.S. and Britain will not only repel locals, but often feel alienated and indifferent to the places they visit. I tend to think that if I'm not trying to experience the places I go with all of my self, trying to understand how it is that people live culturally rich lives in foreign places, then I might enjoy myself, but I doubt the experience would teach me anything. What made me keenly aware of this was the way in which the "proud to be an American," (or maybe the, "I change for no-one") crowd at my university in England ended up not only hating the place, but experiencing nothing new. They looked with their eyes and heard with their ears, but their brains never got around to seeing and hearing things in new ways. It's one of the most awesome things about going to new places- that you have this unique opportunity to experience yourself in a new way. Part of what allows and reinforces the separation of the individual from new cultural experiences is "tourist activities," which allow you to experience the places you visit as if you were sitting in your living room and watching it all on video- it's more lifelike, but it's still fabricated.
As for "fake pride," I'd actually like an explanation of what that is, and who katharina thinks suffers from it. Is she simply saying "my pride is real," or what?
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I've met kat a few times, and she is nowhere close to what you're desscribing, so I think we're good.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Wagamama is a noodle bar. There are many delicious things there if you're not into curry - which I am usually not, but this chicken katsu curry is really, really good.
Seriously. The South Bank. It is wondrous. Used books. Many, many used books.
Posts: 910 | Registered: May 2000
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It is tragic that anyone would stereotypes not only taint their opinion of people they've never met, but also of themselves. If one is an American visiting London for the first time, one is a tourist. It isn't a bad thing in itself. Tocqueville was a tourist when he came to the USA.
Orincoro, you might be too self conscious to be confident of your abilities to be yourself as a toursist and a gentleman at the same time.
I'm very confident of my abilities to be an American tourist with a Texas drawl and a complete lady at the same time.
Anyway, I don't want the London experience you had.
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Okay, Merry Wives of Windsor, then? It would be good to see a comedy, how could I pass up the chance for the Globe, and ghost tours are mostly an excuse to walk around the city and hear stories about the places you see, so there are other ways to get that. Is that okay, Kama?
If so, should we buy tickets now?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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sure, sounds good. Is there a way to book tickets and claim them on the spot? The post is usually speedy, but I wouldn't want to risk them not getting to me in time.
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All Tickets are posted 1st Class at the time of booking. Tickets are only posted to the address registered with the credit card company. For performances fewer than 5 days, tickets are left for collection at the ticket office. For operational reasons, we may alter the time-scale of delivery but will advise you of this at the time of booking.
If Collecting tickets from the venue, the Cardholder and Card used at time of booking must be present in order for the ticket to be released.
Do y'all want to sit or stand? I think I'd rather sit - it will be after a long day of touring, and I'm guessing we (I) will be tired.
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I don't know. *hollers* Ammiiiiiirrraaaa!!! AmmmirrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAA!
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For performances fewer than 5 days.... does that mean we should wait to get tickets until next Monday?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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If I ordered today, they *should* get here by next Wednesday, but things do get delayed sometimes and it's only a bit more than a week.
Maybe it's safer to wait until Monday? if they run out by then, there's always the walk. I don't know. How much do you care about seeing it?
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actually, can you try e-mailing them and ask if they can just keep them even if we order early?
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If you go to the Tate Modern, I recommend having tea in the restaurant on the top floor. Amazing view. I am not a big fan of contemporary art, but the TM still had a lot of stuff I enjoyed seeing. Picasso, Chagall, Miro, Ernst - and I spent a long time just sitting and soaking in the Monet. TM has really easily accessed maps on their website, so you could decide a "route" ahead of time.
I also highly recommend the Wallace Collection. Some of the painting are a bit risque, but they are naughty in a eighteenth century nymphs and satyrs kind of way. The home itself is gorgeous and crammed full of beautiful things. I think they have Marie Antoinette's boudoir furnishings. They also have a website: http://www.wallacecollection.org/
I had mixed feelings about the British Museum. On the one hand, it was amazing to see all this stuff, really incredible. Kat, with your interest in ancient cultures, you should find it very worthwhile. I found myself just a bit resentful though, that the British sort of rampaged through the entire worlds scooping up everything they could get their imperial hands on and lugging it back to London. Even while I realized that they probably preserved a lot of it that would have gotten lost and I wouldn't have been able to see it otherwise, I was still bothered by it.
Don't miss Westminster Abbey. I found it a bit much at first - everybody and their Aunt Fanny gets a statue. I found the Poet's Corner quite moving, though, and by the time I reached Winston Churchill and the Tomb of the Unknown, I was weepy. I am sure I embarrassed myself in a very "touristy" way, but no one seemed to mind.
I hope that is helpful.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I talked to the Globe box office, and they said it would be no problem to have them hold the tickets until we came to get them. The box office is closed now, but I could call them tomorrow morning and get the tickets.
Do we want three? Where you y'all want to sit?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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How much do you want to spend? It looks like there are 15 pound, 27 pound, and 33 pound tickets. Any preferences, or should I just get some 3 15-pound tickets?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: It is tragic that anyone would stereotypes not only taint their opinion of people they've never met, but also of themselves. If one is an American visiting London for the first time, one is a tourist. It isn't a bad thing in itself. Tocqueville was a tourist when he came to the USA.
Orincoro, you might be too self conscious to be confident of your abilities to be yourself as a toursist and a gentleman at the same time.
I'm very confident of my abilities to be an American tourist with a Texas drawl and a complete lady at the same time.
Anyway, I don't want the London experience you had.
I'd think you were crazy for saying that if you knew half of how much I enjoyed myself. I still did LOTS of the tourist things, but I had the best time of my life when I was there.
Calling Tocqueville a tourist is disingenuous though. Tourism in the sense of the period, and as it holds somewhat today, is descendant from the tradition of the pilgrimage. Pilgrims have for millenia traveled to cities of historical, religious, or cultural significance, as part of a personal rite of passage. Simply being in a new place, such as on a business trip, doesn't make one a tourist. Certainly, I think, Tocqueville was seeking something greater than personal enlightenment or uplifting experiences when he came to America. In that sense, he was not the tourist that you are.
IMO there is nothing at all wrong with traditional tourism, in the older sense of the word. I like the idea of a personal journey of significance. I think my problem with tourism as an industry, is that so much of it is defined through the most artificial experiences. If you are going to be in a single place for one day, that is not what I think of as tourism- it certainly bears no resemblance to the "grand tour" concept of tourism that is taken so seriously by some non-Americans, notably New Zealanders and Australians. Just to reflect on the word- the idea is to "tour," which implies a journey to many places. Aussies still embark on even multi-year tours in their early 20's, going without a car, without many luxuries in order to save the money, and I think that's the most incredible thing a person can do for themselves.
So, while I don't object to people stopping in one place for one day, I dislike our mainstream cultural position on "doing London," or wherever one may happen to go. It feels like a false practice to me, hitting the tourist locations, buying the T-shirt, taking the pictures, and proving to everyone that you have done this thing. That's not a criticism of any specific person, but I think these little tourist activities encourage us to shut down our brains and take for our experiences, the things that other people give us, rather than what we find for ourselves. Tocqueville certainly toured the United States, but he was learning things he couldn't have learned any other way- he wasn't on the beaten path.
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How much do you want to spend? It looks like there are 15 pound, 27 pound, and 33 pound tickets. Any preferences, or should I just get some 3 15-pound tickets?
Get the 15 pound tickets, but be aware of the section in which you are seated. Because the Globe is a round, as per tradition, there are quite a few seats on the periphery that don't offer a great view of anything. You want seats in the 15 pound section (which is just off the ground, because they provide the best view.
The 27 and 33 pound tickets are for the second and third levels which don't offer direct access to the groundling section. They also don't have views that are nearly as good as the first level. If you want to stretch your legs and walk around, or if you'd like to take a shot at standing in the groundling section, which is all around the stage, but doesn't allow you to sit, then you can do so with a 15 pound ticket. Another option is a groundling ticket for 5 pounds, but only buy one if you know you can stand for several hours, and that you can show up early to get a good position.
My recommendation is to start with a 15 pound ticket, stand in the groundlings for the first half of the show, and then at the intermission, have a cup of tea or coffee and take your seat. That way you get to stand literally within arms reach of the actors, but you don't have to stand for the entire show, just the first half. I've done it this way a few times and liked it the best. Standing or sitting for the whole show is tough either way, as the seats are not comfortable- they're just wooden benches with no backs.
If you want to be comfortable for a show, the RSC not far from the globe is very comfy, and more expensive, and usually has bigger productions- doing a lot of the historical plays, or populating their shows with lots of extras. The globe does not do this as a matter of course because they are obliged to pay their actors a standard wage, as per globe tradition- so large casts are mostly impractical.
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A few things that may/may not be accessible to you (depending on timing and transportation and interest)
1) Royal Armory (it moved out of the city a while back, but I think it's still in the vicinity). If you're at all interested in warfare throughout the ages that place is fantastic.
2) Tower of London (may have been mentioned above)
3) Torture museum - rather grisly, but also fascinating and educational.
4) Take the tube to Elephant and Castle... just because you can say that you've been to elephant and castle...
5) Note this definitely isn't London, but it was the first thing we did after leaving London last time I was there and was soo worth it: now of course I can't figure out where it was, but there was a small town (possibly near bath) that had one of the largest stone circles on the isle running right through it. While the circle was nowhere near as complete as Stonehenge it wasn't at all fenced off or anything. So we just pulled over while driving through the town, walked into a little pasture with some sheep grazing and could walk right up to the stones.
Of course I've given you nearly no useful information on how to find the place, and likely as not you can't/won't go because it's really not all that near London, but in case you're going in the general direction of Wales in the near future I'd check it (or something like it) out.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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There are two ways this could go. I could follow your practice and make a bunch of uncharitable, nasty assumptions about you the way you have made them about me. In that case, I would tell you exactly what I think of the pretentious, self-important, self-hating prideful losers who pretend that they are better than everyone else.
But maybe that isn't you, and your condescending stupid post was an accident. In any case, leave the thread. Your input is not wanted. I don't want your experience, and you are apparently incapable of understanding the experience I do want. You're not invited for that Saturday. I don't care about your opinion.
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Grimace,
Thank you for your suggestions. We do only have the one day in London, so anything involving a field trip is right out. I am fond of the idea of visiting the tower of London, though.
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If you decide to go to the Tower, get your tickets ahead of time. The lines to purchase tickets tend to be very, very long.
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But maybe that isn't you, and your condescending stupid post was an accident. In any case, leave the thread. Your input is not wanted. I don't want your experience, and you are apparently incapable of understanding the experience I do want. You're not invited for that Saturday. I don't care about your opinion.
Please spare the personal attacks. You don't have to listen to me, but you do have to be civil. You can delete the thread, if you like, but you don't own it, and you don't own what I've said. Obviously, you've already decided to ignore all the points I tried to make.
I hope you can look back at some point and realize that your reaction is *way* out of step with my intent. If you don't like the idea of people sharing their opinions about the things they like or don't like, I'd be fascinated to know why you asked people here that question in the first place. Please step back for a second and look at how curt and dismissive you have been in this thread. I had never come to expect that from you before.
quote: I would tell you exactly what I think of the pretentious, self-important, self-hating prideful losers who pretend that they are better than everyone else.
quote: Orincoro, you might be too self conscious to be confident of your abilities to be yourself as a tourist and a gentleman at the same time.
OH but of course, you assume that I believe you are incapable of being kind and a tourist. You further assume that I believe this, which you have assumed, because I lack the ability you so obviously have, of feeling secure in myself wherever I go, or whoever I talk to. That's a fantastic way of dealing with people you don't have that much in common with. I bet you travel well indeed. But, we can't assume that.
Let's assume some more things. I like that. Oh but wait, go back and check to see if I ever assumed anything of significance about you (other than that you might like a pub crawl, but that is an assumption I would make about anyone, like liking Chinese food). See how my post doesn't address you specifically; actually goes out of its way to point out that I am not talking about specific people but about the tourism industry? If you can't see that, I've failed on a basic level to take into account exactly how self-centered you may be. But I guess I assumed you were rational- let us not make these mistakes. Now, look back at all the snide and hurtful things you've said to me, all the assumptions you've made.
No, your pride isn't fake, that's for sure. Have a lovely time. You deserve whatever you get.
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I don't mind about the tickets. who else is coming though? me and you and who? or is the third one just in case?
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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The Globe is brilliant. I think Orincoro's suggestion of standing for the first half and then taking your seat at the intermission is good. The only time I've been we got groundling tickets and it was great standing within touching distance of the actors, but hard work standing for as long as we did.
I'm afraid that I might not be able to meet up with you, unless it's absolutely first thing in the morning - I have a friend's hen party which starts at 1:30 in the afternoon.
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The worst part about standing with the groundlings is that if you take a break during intermission, someone will take your place. So if you were standing against the stage for the first half, you could end up standing in the back for the second, and that's not fun. Also, if it rains, you aren't allowed an umbrella, and I think it's more than half the times I've been to the globe. Not very lucky.
What's cool though is that some of the actors like to take food and drinks from the crowd at the beginning of the show, so if you had a beer or something with you, they might take it and drink it during the show, which is always funny.
I remember a show about three years ago, Periclese. I wish I was in the groundlings for that one, because they rigged this huge wooden ship to the beams all around the theater and swung it out over the crowd with people in it and everything. Then they had acrobats fall down from the rafters spinning on ropes, to simulate people drowning. If you're right against the stage, that's happening all around you. I've never seen a show there that wasn't surprising in some way.
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I've been to see Romeo and Juliet at the Globe, and it sucked majorly. We went out at the intermission and by we I mean me and some theatre-loving girls. But since we're seeing a different play, chances are it won't suck Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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What was bad about it? Personally I just don't like seeing Hamlet, Macbeth or Romeo and Juliet at all. There's something about the commonness of the themes and dialog that just leaves the plays completely stilted in so many performances. I'd dread ever having to perform the signature monologues from Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet, and I bet a lot of actors grimace at the notion of doing them as well. Maybe people just get fed up with them, and end up doing a crappy job of it?
One thing about the globe is that they seem to do a wide variety of the plays, and I think the most mainstream production I've seen there was The Tempest, which was done in a really cool way. There aren't that many places that are going to perform Pericles, (because it isn't really the best of them), or A Winter's Tale, or Measure for Measure, or Twelfth Night, as much as they perform any of the big 3 or 4 plays that everybody sees sometime. That, come to think, was the best part of seeing Pericles. The play is really not that good, and Shakespeare didn't write all of it, so the rendition put on was just kind of a circus of effects and riffs- it gave an impression of a kind of barroom production that might be put on for fun, and it was pretty fun.
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quote:Maybe people just get fed up with them, and end up doing a crappy job of it?
I suppose it might be the case, but no good actor would act badly just because they are bored with the play. I think they were just bad actors.
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I'm not a big fan of Ghost Walks. They have a half dozen or so of them in York and it's all so cheesy. Go with proper theatre. The Globe is great, and I really wish I could have stayed for a show. From my experience, depend on seeing no more than three major attractions in a day. You could probably squeeze in the British Museum, Westminster, and the Globe, but check the last admission times. Except for Wednesday, the last admit to Westminster is 3pm.
That wasn't her voting for Merry Wives? EL, are you meeting us? I'm so confused now.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:I'd dread ever having to perform the signature monologues from Hamlet or Romeo and Juliet, and I bet a lot of actors grimace at the notion of doing them as well.
Oh, my goodness, I don't know many actors over the years that haven't wanted to sink their teeth into Hamlet. That's, like, the gold standard; they all want to play him.
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