posted
My husband has been on salary for many years now. It comes with the type of work he's in -- software engineering. It's just the way it works. But I HATE it. Basically, what "salaried" means to me is that they can work him as long and as hard as they want and he still only gets paid for the first 40 hours.
The one he's at right now is the worst I've ever seen. It was ok when he started, but last fall they put him on a new project and put him o call 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And they do call him nearly every day, whether it's Christmas Even or our *supposed* paid time off. He put in over 100 hours last week. He works evenings, weekends, and is now going to fail the last class he needed to complete his degree because he has no way to get the work done.
I'm going crazy here watching from the sidelines. I've told him to tell them no and let them fire him, I don't care. And as much as I'm a safety and security girl, I think I pretty much mean it. The insanity has gone on long enough.
So yeah, he's looking for a new job now, but it's too late. He's already failed a class for this and with the economy being down, it may be a while before he finds a new job.
So here's a good one. My birthday was Wednesday and my husband is planning a party for me on Saturday. his boss wanted him to work on Saturday. He begged her for permission to have SATURDAY off so he could throw me a party and she suggested that he have one of the girls in the office throw it for me instead!
Oh, and a few weeks ago he had a "week off" in which he put in 60 hours. When he turned in his time sheet, he did not take any PTO, and his boss tried to force him to claim that week as time off. He ended up in a fight with human resources about it in which they, too, suggested he claim it as time off so as not to rock the boat. At least on that one, he put his foot down. Not that it matters. If he gets a job we'll lose all the vacation time anyway. Even if he stays, they won't let him use it.
All right...I just had to vent to somebody and venting to my husband isn't really working. Plus, we get so little time together.
But really, would the company be doing this to him if he weren't on salary? If they had to actually pay him for all the hours he worked? I still wouldn't be thrilled to have him work 100 hours in a week, but at least there would be a nice fat check at the end of it.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
They are absolutely abusing the situation. Finding another job as soon as possible is a great idea.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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What state are you in? In many states, only certain sorts of employees are not overtime eligible, and those typically require a component such as acting in a supervisory capacity. It may be that what the company has been doing is illegal, in which case you would have an extremely solid case to at least get back all the overtime hours he had worked worth, at time and a half.
But yes, what the company does is unconscionable. And given they're willing to abuse their employees like this, I doubt "hourly" would stop them; there have been plenty of companies that pressure their overtime-eligible employees to work unpaid overtime. It is not a question of how he is eligible to be paid, it is a question of how the company treats its employees, and a lot of implicit balancing between the company and the employee -- balancing which, in your case, the company seems to be uninterested in.
Also, have your husband appeal for an incomplete from the professor/school. Working that many hours is a perfectly reasonable reason to have some additional time to complete the course.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:But really, would the company be doing this to him if he weren't on salary?
No. Speaking as a salaried programmer, this is one of the reasons programmers are so often salaried. (Note: depending on your state, though, your husband may have a legal case to claim a certain amount of his unpaid overtime. Call a lawyer.)
When I became a salaried programmer, I made it very clear -- it is written into my contract -- that I would not be available for more than 60 hours a week, or more than 200 hours in any four week period. I told them up-front that this was a condition of my hiring.
Not all employers will permit that kind of restriction. Among programmers in particular, it is well-known that many employers deliberately abuse salaried employment; some states have actually filed claims against companies, like Epic Software and EA Games, for requiring of their employees the sort of thing you're saying your husband is being forced to do. Unfortunately, these cases are often lost; a contract is a contract, after all.
This is why I will not work for a place that will not let me put the appropriate restrictions in my contract.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Oh, and start documenting everything, and making notes of specifics of past incidences before you forget. Every conversation where his work duties are detailed, make a note of. Get copies of his contract, and scan them to see if he's supposed to be on call even when on PTO.
Heck, since you have a bunch of PTO, apply to use a huge amount of it, then fly somewhere else for a vacation (and maybe use the time to talk to people about jobs . . .). They'll have a hard time calling him back if he isn't nearby.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I would like to note that my sister works for Epic in a tech support/troubleshooting capacity, and while she's had a few weeks around 60, and a number around 50 (but well less than half her weeks there), she's one of the highest bonus earners in her group.
I don't know as much about how they treat their full-time programmers, but it is not part of a universal culture there.
Of course, I'd hate working at Epic, but that's for other reasons.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:30-plus states have rules regarding vacation. However, for most of those states, the rule is that the companies follow their policy. . . . Most states, in fact, do not require unused vacation balances to be paid out upon termination, and very few states have formal rules protecting employees from changes in the vacation policy.
California and Massachusetts are the two states with the strictest "must pay PTO on departure" laws, I believe.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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We're in Kansas. I really don't know anything about the legalities here. I do know that it was understood at the time of employment that his PTO was not of the kind that could be reimbursed or even carry over (except 1 week) from year to year. We were ok with that as long as he actually got to take the time, but now he's not. As far as overtime...I just don't have a lot of confidence that employees usually win those cases.
Maybe we should drive a harder bargain next time he gets a job. I like the no more than 60 hours a week or 200 hours per 4 weeks idea. The only trouble is that we're in such a bad situation now that it's at the point where we may not be able to hold out for the best job or drive a hard bargain.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
What a rough situation! I feel for you. I had a similar situation when my husband was a private contractor for the government. At first he got paid for all his OT but when the company blew through way too many funds in the first half of the year they stopped paying overtime and saying that employees were not allowed to work OT. However, the bosses were still requiring way more work than could be done in the allotted hours so it ended up being unpaid OT. It drove me nuts and really put a lot of stress on our marriage. It is the primary reason he left the job. If getting a new position is at all possible, I highly recommend it. It is such a relief to not have the nightly fights about hours. It is so hard to maintain a good attitude towards each other when you never get quality time together
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
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I did a little looking into it and my husband is definitely exempt from overtime law. I thought he would be but I decided it couldn't hurt to look and see for sure. In fact, according to some things I found in Kansas law, his employer can make him work as much as they like -- 24 hours a day if they want -- and fire him on a whim. He can also quit on a whim, which is his only protection.
So I'm back to my general rant and desperate hopes that this job hunt thing goes quickly and well.
Oh...someone asked about an extension for the class. The worst thing is he already got one! But the university policy only allows 8 additional weeks and there's no end in sight.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Not an extension, an incomplete. That is, an agreement is made on what he needs to do to complete the class, the class is marked incomplete, typically for up to a year, and if he does not complete it in that time it is changed to an F.
The company seems like they pretty much need is help. Since you seem pushed almost to the point of quitting anyways, couldn't he push back? The worst they could do is fire him, and he might even still be able to get unemployment benefits, depending on how they do that.
That is, tell them that he is unable to work the hours that they are asking for, that it is hurting his family life, that if the hours keep up he will quit, and that from now on he will work the first, say, 60 hours requested of him, but at that point he will come in no further for the week. Also, that if he is on PTO, he will not come in more than ten hours that week (if he is in the area), and only for absolute emergencies.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Not an extension, an incomplete. That is, an agreement is made on what he needs to do to complete the class, the class is marked incomplete, typically for up to a year, and if he does not complete it in that time it is changed to an F.
He has an incomplete. His university policy is 8 weeks. Then he gets an F.
quote: The company seems like they pretty much need is help. Since you seem pushed almost to the point of quitting anyways, couldn't he push back? The worst they could do is fire him, and he might even still be able to get unemployment benefits, depending on how they do that.
That is, tell them that he is unable to work the hours that they are asking for, that it is hurting his family life, that if the hours keep up he will quit, and that from now on he will work the first, say, 60 hours requested of him, but at that point he will come in no further for the week. Also, that if he is on PTO, he will not come in more than ten hours that week (if he is in the area), and only for absolute emergencies.
I've been telling him to do this for a long time, but he just won't. I'm not sure what he thinks will happen...I guess he's afraid of getting fired. I'm not sure what the laws are regarding unemployment benefits, it would be rough but I think we could survive for a little while. I guess the big problem would be that getting fired for cause would make it very hard to get a new job? I'm trying to guess what's going through his head, but I can't fathom. Then again, I can't fathom what's going through his employers' heads. A human being simply cannot work the number of hours they are asking of him. It just doesn't happen. After a while you'll do more harm than good. They've had him work straight through Sunday, all night, and into Monday morning at least half a dozen times in the last 3 months. He stays awake somehow. If it were me, I would literally fall asleep on my keyboard. I cannot stay up all night -- never have, not even in college. What would an employer do then? Fire me for failing to be able to stay awake all night? Seems to me that whether the law protects against it or not, common sense and reason would suggest you can't do that to someone.
The trouble from my perspective is that it's not me, it's him. I have to pick up all the slack at home (which looks like a train wreck, but at least the kids are fed), but I can't make him do anything with regards to work. I can say honestly that this is putting a huge strain on our marriage and I'm not sure he understands how huge. He's not around enough. I'm a good way from calling it quits but I have seriously suggested going to live with my parents for a while.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Christine, have you looked into contacting a lawyer specializing in this area, just to get an informed perspective on your options? Some (many?) do not charge for initial consultation, but even if there were a charge, it sounds like it would be a good investment.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Wow, that's a really short period for an incomplete.
He should talk to his professor. Professors (especially tenured professors) pretty much have carte blanche to change grades at later dates; he might be able to get an unofficial incomplete (that is, an F that his professor later changes to his real grade).
And that's a really stupid company. There's no way he's being more productive as a programmer with those hours than with a set that lets him sleep.
Actually, if you guys aren't averse to moving, send me some of his info (and sample code). I know of a few potential openings in my area (Bloomington, IN) who would listen to my recommendations. I can't promise anything without being more familiar with his capabilities, of course.
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I second the lawyer recommendation. What I've heard from some lawyers with regard to the initial consultation is, stay far away from any lawyer that charges for one.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Also, someone should be able to intervene in cases of crisis at university. Maybe not the first one or two (or three or four) people you speak with, but someone. I'd consider 3 things:
1) [edited] I have flagged this for two friends who work with university bureaucracies. They might jump in with some ideas.
2) Check with the university phone operator to see if there is an ombudsman's office (the function of such an office is to cut through red tape).
3) Speak with student counselling services. As a spouse of a student, you may be eligible for free services. Regardless, his investing an hour there is worth not getting an F. Often formal counseling services have more broad power to work around the system.
Good luck, regardless what you end up doing. This sounds miserable. *hugs
---
Edited to add: I was assuming he had already spoken with his professor, but fugu13 has a great point. This needs to be done explicitly, as just hinting isn't enough to let an instructor know the gravity of his situation. It has to be expressed in the same tones you used here.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Actually, if you guys aren't averse to moving, send me some of his info (and sample code). I know of a few potential openings in my area (Bloomington, IN) who would listen to my recommendations. I can't promise anything without being more familiar with his capabilities, of course.
That's very generous of you. For now, I think we're going to try for a local job opening. We've got a mortgage and friends here and moving would be costly on a number of levels. But in a few months, I may take you up on it. He's really very capable. I think he's had at least some experience with a couple dozen programming languages, and he's methodical. Drives me nuts in our personal life sometimes but is a perfect personality trait for a programmer. (Probably why I never cut it in the field.)
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: Christine, have you looked into contacting a lawyer specializing in this area, just to get an informed perspective on your options? Some (many?) do not charge for initial consultation, but even if there were a charge, it sounds like it would be a good investment.
I've asked him to speak to a lawyer, just to float his options. Hopefully, he will.
Thanks, everyone, for being so supportive.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Yup. CT is wise. Your husband should speak with the professor and the dean's office and his advisor if he has one. Usually, if a student is proactive about the problems they are having, the school should be willing to work with him. The school has made an investment in him by admitting him; they want him to succeed.
posted
I have no good advise to offer, but that sucks pretty bad. My husband (engineer) is salaried and so far, it seems like the 40 hours a week is something the company is committed to. Of course, they require a year of training before employees are able to do anything so it is very costly for them when an employee quits.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008
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quote:Originally posted by fugu13: Wow, that's a really short period for an incomplete.
Hate to say this, but 8 weeks is not that short for an incomplete. Our policy is 6th week of the next semester -- which is great for incompletes from Spring semester, but comes out to about 7 weeks for incompletes from Fall semester. We do allow extensions on a case-by-case basis. I know of several other schools with similar timelines.
quote:Originally posted by fugu13: He should talk to his professor. Professors (especially tenured professors) pretty much have carte blanche to change grades at later dates; he might be able to get an unofficial incomplete (that is, an F that his professor later changes to his real grade).
This is absolutely NOT TRUE at many schools, possibly most. Teachers do not have carte blanche to change grades.
To clarify: absolutely talk to the professor and see what can be worked out. But in every school I know of, there is a procedure that must be followed for grade changes after the incomplete period, and it almost always involves approval from at least one person (either the department chair, the dean of students, the registrar, or more than one of the above) in addition to the instructor. That said, if it has been less than a year and the instructor wants to change the grade and has documented reason to do so, it will usually happen. (Over a year and it usually has to go through some sort of appeal or committee process, and those are less certain.)
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Your husband should speak with the professor and the dean's office and his advisor if he has one. Usually, if a student is proactive about the problems they are having, the school should be willing to work with him.
Good advice.
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: The school has made an investment in him by admitting him; they want him to succeed.
Very true. (Plus, it helps with their statistics. )
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Christine, I doubt it, but if you guys are up to moving to Philadelphia, I know that there's a programming job open in my office at Penn. The pay is good, but not great, but the benefits are amazing. Of particular interest to your husband may be the free tuition for staff members. They also offer a lot of assistance buying a house near the school.
Again, you're probably not interested, but it wouldn't hurt to take a look here http://www.hr.upenn.edu/Jobs/ and search for staff job # 090626781.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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rivka -- Good points. And actually, both my husband and I agree that the university has been generous to offer the 8-week extension. We have no blame in our hearts for them at all and one way or another, he will complete his degree program. It's just a question of whether it will cost us another $1,300 for the 3-hour course as well as the blow to his GPA. (Yes, it's expensive. It's also the only accredited on-line computer science program in the country.) At any rate, I've approached him about making a few phone calls and seeing if he can tug some heartstrings. It can't hurt.
The bigger problem is that we expected him to have his diploma in hand when he started looking for a new job...an added appeal to companies who might hire him. It's the reason we've waded through 6 months of this. Whether they give him the extension or not, though, they can't give him a degree before he's done. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: I guess the big problem would be that getting fired for cause would make it very hard to get a new job?
From what I've encountered, most interviewers are engineers themselves (I've conducted a couple dozen myself). If the "cause" is that you weren't willing to work insane hours (but are still willing to occasionally work overtime) I don't think that's going to count against you at all.
Working a developer to the bone is a really stupid idea, that leads to more problems in testing and further down the development cycle. Some subsets of the industry might be able to get away with it (like the game industry), but it wouldn't fly in most businesses.
Some quick googling found this:
quote:Most software engineers work at least 40 hours a week, but about 17 percent work more than 50 hours a week. Software engineers also may have to work evenings or weekends to meet deadlines or solve unexpected technical problems.
That describes my situation. I have worked 70 hour weeks before, but the vast majority of my work-weeks are 45 hours or less, and I make a very decent salary.
I know the market expands and contracts all the time, but I don't think the market is so dire right now in most areas that he wouldn't be able to find a 9-5 gig.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: At any rate, I've approached him about making a few phone calls and seeing if he can tug some heartstrings. It can't hurt.
It certainly can't. (And $1300 for a 3-credit class is actually on the low end for a private school.)
quote:Originally posted by Christine: The bigger problem is that we expected him to have his diploma in hand when he started looking for a new job...an added appeal to companies who might hire him. It's the reason we've waded through 6 months of this. Whether they give him the extension or not, though, they can't give him a degree before he's done.
posted
Don't you have laws in America to prevent ridiculous work hours? Legally in Ontario, under one employer:
quote:The maximum number of hours most employees can be required to work in a week is 48 hours a week. The only way the weekly maximum can be exceeded is by written agreement and approval of the Director of Employment Standards. (An employer may require employees to start working some additional hours 30 days after applying for the Director's approval, as long as certain conditions are met.) An employer must have the Director's approval before an employee can work more than 60 hours a week.
I may be interpreting this wrong, as he's not actually getting paid for the time he's working (which seems ludicrous), but I would hope that there was some kind of legal recourse that he could go to unless he signed an agreement which explicitly allowed him to work this many hours without overtime.
Either way, it's crazy and he should get a new job. Nobody should be forced to work for free double the hours they are paid for.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Wow, Teshi. I'm curious what law and accounting firms are like in Ontario.
I have friends who are regularly required to work anywhere from 70-100 hours per week in firms in Manhattan. Granted they're getting paid a considerable salary, but it's pretty common in the legal and accounting worlds.
Not anything I'd ever want to do - and it seems not anything Christine or her husband really wants to do, either.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Well, you can exceed that time, but you have to get written permission and sign off with your employee as well, so people *can* work more than 70 hours a week, but only if they have deliberately said they can.
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Not anything I'd ever want to do - and it seems not anything Christine or her husband really wants to do, either.
My husband and I have both agreed that family is more important to us than high-powered, high-profit careers. If he were a climber making 6-figures and that were ok with me, I suppose I'd comfort myself on the way to the bank, but no, that's not the life we want.
I do wish we had some better labor laws in this country. No one's passionate about it, though.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote: If he gets a job we'll lose all the vacation time anyway.
I don't think it's legal to not pay for earned PTO.
It is legal, and a fairly standard practice at some places. Even those who allow cash outs on it usually limit the amount of time you can cash in. I should know, it happened to me with JCPenney. I lost an average of 1-2 weeks per year, because you can't cash it out and you can only carry 1 week forward each year.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: When I was Salary-Exempt, I flatly refused to work more than 40 hours. Occasionally 45 hours if I had a deadline I wanted to hit.
If the company says to me, "Here's your pay for 40 hours of work" aka Salary-Exempt, I say to them, "Here's my 40 hours of work."
If they want me to work more, they can make me Salary-Nonexempt.
When I was Salary-NonExempt, I was happy to work 70 hour weeks.
This only really works if you can complete your work in 40 hours a week. Otherwise, the company is within its rights to fire you for not completing your work in a timely fashion.
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What I try to make clear to my employers is that my "work" consists of jobs that it would be reasonable for a single person to complete in under 50 hours a week. If "my work" is a project that demands 80 hours a week, it is not just my work.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Christine, this sounds awful, and you have my deepest wishes that things work out.
On a side note, I'll be looking for a job in the game industry about a year from now, and I'm not looking forward to the accepted standard of ridiculous overtime...suppose I'll just have to try to find the best work environment I can, that's managed by real human beings.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Jul 2006
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I know this is a terrible thought. I very much hope it isn't true. Is it possible at all that your husband is lying and he isn't really spending all that time at work?
The only reason I ask is that I know of two people this happened to. Their significant other was working insane hours only it turned out that much of it wasn't really work. It was time spent with other women.
I really really hope this isn't true for you. But you should at least consider the possibility.
I sincerely truly hope that's not it.
Really.
Please, let that not be what this is.
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: I know this is a terrible thought. I very much hope it isn't true. Is it possible at all that your husband is lying and he isn't really spending all that time at work?
LOL! No, it's not this. It's funny because...and I never mentioned this so I totally get why you asked...my husband works from home. I am quite painfully aware of every hour he spends up here in this hot study. I guess it's possible he's having net sex over there on his side of our T-shaped desk, but all things considered, I doubt it. He doesn't even come down for meals. I end up bringing them to him...feels like I'm pushing food through a cell door.
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Okay, thank goodness! =) It rather sounded like you knew for sure, but I had doubts once about someone else that I later wish I had voiced.
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Expecting someone to work during vacation... Well, that's certainly low, at the very least. But I find it hard to believe that could be allowable under any company policy that they could ask an employee to sign to with a straight face.
Which, I grant, may be hopeless naiveté on my part. I haven't worked for a big company in a while.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: What I try to make clear to my employers is that my "work" consists of jobs that it would be reasonable for a single person to complete in under 50 hours a week. If "my work" is a project that demands 80 hours a week, it is not just my work.
I'd love to insist on that. But we have a hiring freeze, and everyone is overworked.
(I honestly think I am one of the 2 or 3 most overworked, but that's another story.)
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I do wish we had some better labor laws in this country. No one's passionate about it, though.
I've spent basically the last year learning about American labor in various history classes, and specifically the last couple months learning about labor law and organized labor in a more specific and direct class, and yeah, it sucks to a huge degree.
There are plenty of people who are passionate about it, but the odds they're up against are so enormous that it would take a huge change in the American psyche to go along with serious labor reform in America. We have a very weird labor ethos here that's been slowly but directly shaped by history, and it could take a generation to change it. Some signs point to that happening, with the 21st century labor situation possibly beginning a metamorphosis from what it used to be. But it remains to be seen if Congress will catch up with that any time soon, if ever.
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I remember calling my state's labor department on a hotel I used to work at while in college in Ocean City, MD. They were always short staffed, so overtime was always offered. One spring break I worked 60 hours. However, it was 20 hours each at the three different hotels they owned. I didn't think anything of it at the time, until I got three different pay checks with no overtime. They also docked our checks daily for lunches, even when it was IMPOSSIBLE to take one. For instance I would be the only person working the front desk, and would have to eat while dealing with phones and guests. The labor department actually did a full audit after I called, and all the employees received some very nice checks that year.
Just pointing out that companies like to mess with hourly workers just as much.
(Oh and if you are ever visiting Ocean City, avoid the two Howard Johnson's and the Days Inn.)
Posts: 3134 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I do wish we had some better labor laws in this country. No one's passionate about it, though.
I've spent basically the last year learning about American labor in various history classes, and specifically the last couple months learning about labor law and organized labor in a more specific and direct class, and yeah, it sucks to a huge degree.
There are plenty of people who are passionate about it, but the odds they're up against are so enormous that it would take a huge change in the American psyche to go along with serious labor reform in America. We have a very weird labor ethos here that's been slowly but directly shaped by history, and it could take a generation to change it. Some signs point to that happening, with the 21st century labor situation possibly beginning a metamorphosis from what it used to be. But it remains to be seen if Congress will catch up with that any time soon, if ever.
That's basically what I meant -- that the current American psyche, as you put it, just isn't right for these changes. I'm not sure what it would take to change the culture in this way, but at the moment someone has got the people running scared on the side of business in a lot of our attitudes. Plus, it's not as sexy as say, gay marriage. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Well as a medical resident, I do see the change that is occurring in my own field. You've probably all heard about resident duty hours and how ridiculous it once was. The current limits are something along these lines:
Limit is eighty hours a week. May not be asked to work for longer than 30 hours in a row, with the last six hours only to be used for lectures or follow up on patients. May not be in-house call more than once every three days on average over four weeks. Must have at least one day off every week on average over four weeks. Must have at least ten hours off between shifts.
Those above rules were difficult for residencies to implement about 5 years ago but are generally followed. There are always exceptions in which the residents routinely lie to the accreditation council for the residency due to a fear of having their residency program unlicensed. But they are given ample opportunities to truthfully report their work hours. Many of the harsher residencies such as surgery have had to hire nurse practitioners to pick up some of the intern work load to compensate.
The new recommendations that are under consideration to be added now state they don't think residents should work longer than 16 hours without a five hour nap/break.
So that may be part of changing the American psyche. It's no longer generally accepted for a surgery resident to assist in surgery on their 30th hour of continuous work. Nor can you be asked to live at the hospital for 48 hours in a row.
We are cheap labor for the hospital. They teach me and I provide labor for them. Fortunately there are people who stand up for our labor rights and have the power to enforce their beliefs.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dabbler: Limit is eighty hours a week. May not be asked to work for longer than 30 hours in a row, with the last six hours only to be used for lectures or follow up on patients. May not be in-house call more than once every three days on average over four weeks. Must have at least one day off every week on average over four weeks. Must have at least ten hours off between shifts.
I have heard that there is a move to change rules for residents and as much as I'm glad that this is happening, I have to say that the above rules still seem absolutely ludicrous to me. People cannot function without sleep.
I very much hope they make the move to 16-hour limits. I even think that's harsh, but at least survivable.
I would note, though, that we are seeing changes like this only when human lives are on the line. There have also been changes in the trucking industry because truckers were driving all night and killing people. Doctors were working all night and lives were also at stake due to their sleep deprivation. As far as I can tell, until people start dying, nobody cares.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
It's true that the big push for change is when safety is the concern. However, the health of residents isn't too far behind in their reasoning for change. That's somewhat comforting . I think this type of strictly described set of rules can be helpful as a standard in other fields in the future.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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