FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Favorite concept or idea you've seen in a book... (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Favorite concept or idea you've seen in a book...
Prescient Twin
Member
Member # 12210

 - posted      Profile for Prescient Twin   Email Prescient Twin         Edit/Delete Post 
I started a similar thread on the Lord of the Rings forums, and had great success and fun with it. Basically, what is something that really wowed you, something that really amazed you.

I've come across mine in a few books in various ways, although they all express the same thing.

Two such forms of my favorite concept are:

1.) The leader of the society must throw himself off a balcony, committing his life to his citizens, in that if they catch him he knows he's upholding their interests.

2.) The leader of the society must walk through a street blindfolded with no security, while every citizen is given a knife. If he makes it through this trial alive, he knows he's a good leader.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
Ick. Setting aside the fact that there will always be crazies (unless you're evil enough to execute them all, I guess), I don't like the idea that how good a leader is can be measured by their popularity at any point in time.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Prescient Twin
Member
Member # 12210

 - posted      Profile for Prescient Twin   Email Prescient Twin         Edit/Delete Post 
To accept the concept you also have to accept the fairytale that the people are knowledgeable enough to know the leader's worth to them.

It just so happens that my favorite concept is susceptible to the imperfections of modern day society.

Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
Best idea I've seen in a book?

A full explanation of how to play sabacc, a fictional card game in the Star Wars universe that Han Solo used to win the Millennium Falcon from Lando Calrissian. AC Crispin explained it in full in the Han Solo trilogy, and I've tried playing it a couple times on different websites with poorly constructed versions of the game.

I'm convinced that it would be the most popular card game in the world if it ever made it into mass production.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Prescient Twin
Member
Member # 12210

 - posted      Profile for Prescient Twin   Email Prescient Twin         Edit/Delete Post 
Any idea from Star Wars could arguably be the best idea ever.
Posts: 11 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
Midichlorians.

Han Magically Dodges and Shoots Last.

Ewoks.

Jar-Jar.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
Really, I never understood all the hate for midichlorians.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
It makes being a Jedi less about a concept anyone could learn, or almost anyone, and more about genetics.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
That's what it always was! Did you miss Luke's whole "the Force is strong in my family" speech? Luke was strong in the Force because his father was. Leia was the last hope for the Alliance if Luke failed because she was also of the Skywalker bloodline. Han, for instance, could never learn to be a jedi because he wasn't born with the innate ability. So the original trilogy had already established that Force powers are rare and hereditary.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Juxtapose
Member
Member # 8837

 - posted      Profile for Juxtapose   Email Juxtapose         Edit/Delete Post 
The Star Wars universe has been treating access to the Force as requiring specific inborn talent for a long time. Episode I merely gave that access a name.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
Exactly.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It makes being a Jedi less about a concept anyone could learn, or almost anyone, and more about genetics.
Nope, that's not it.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Raymond Arnold
Member
Member # 11712

 - posted      Profile for Raymond Arnold   Email Raymond Arnold         Edit/Delete Post 
I'll also remind people that midi-chlorians do not "give" you the force. Midi-chlorians just grow more numerous in people with high force sensitivity. They are an indicator, not the cause.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Synesthesia
Member
Member # 4774

 - posted      Profile for Synesthesia   Email Synesthesia         Edit/Delete Post 
I would like a daemon.
I think that is a cool concept from Philip Pullman including Dust.
There's others, I'll have to think of them. They probably come from Neil Gaiman. I love him.

Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Juxtapose
Member
Member # 8837

 - posted      Profile for Juxtapose   Email Juxtapose         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not sure if it's my absolute favorite, but zombies rank pretty high up there. They're such a fantastic vehicle.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
I've said this elsewhere, but I've never understood the appeal of zombies.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
Which is why you'll be the first to go when Z Day arrives.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
I'm not sure if it's my absolute favorite, but zombies rank pretty high up there. They're such a fantastic vehicle.

Well, they're very fuel efficient, it's true, but the smell kind of puts me off.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
I'll also remind people that midi-chlorians do not "give" you the force. Midi-chlorians just grow more numerous in people with high force sensitivity. They are an indicator, not the cause.

Making them essentially useless. Why even bother having a "force count" err "midichlorians?" You basically have a machine tell you exactly how good you can become as far as your force training is concerned. The midichlorians were unnecessary.

The force isn't necessarily genetic, Anakin's mother and father are not mentioned as having the force (At least I'm pretty sure that's the case).

-------

As for favorite concepts in a book Harry Potter's Magic as a subject that can be studied in school was just so fun and fantastic I finished every book wishing I could visit his world.

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jhai
Member
Member # 5633

 - posted      Profile for Jhai   Email Jhai         Edit/Delete Post 
I had to pick one author whose concepts I've found the most intriguing, it would be, hands down, Ted Chiang (there are links to some of his short stories in his wiki). One of my favorites is his story of a world similar to ours, except that it is simple fact that a God (roughly similar to the one depicted in the Old Testament) exists and causes bad things and good things to happen to people. Then there's the story about a linguist learning to communicate with visiting aliens, and the effect that learning the language has on her mental perceptions (basically, what if the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis were true?) Fascinating stuff, and highly recommended.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Juxtapose
Member
Member # 8837

 - posted      Profile for Juxtapose   Email Juxtapose         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Making them essentially useless. Why even bother having a "force count" err "midichlorians?" You basically have a machine tell you exactly how good you can become as far as your force training is concerned. The midichlorians were unnecessary.

The force isn't necessarily genetic, Anakin's mother and father are not mentioned as having the force (At least I'm pretty sure that's the case).

Again, the extended universe pretty much established everything you're complaining about - force-sensing machines and all - years before Episode I did. I suppose we could get into an argument over what constitutes canon, and what doesn't, but my point is that the concepts aren't new, and especially among the more hardcore fanbase, shouldn't come as a surprise.

___

Noemon,
Here ya go.

Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Jhai:
Then there's the story about a linguist learning to communicate with visiting aliens, and the effect that learning the language has on her mental perceptions (basically, what if the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis were true?) Fascinating stuff, and highly recommended.

Have you read Samuel R. Delaney's Babel-17? It's another one that explores the ramifications of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. It's well worth reading if you haven't come across it.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tatiana
Member
Member # 6776

 - posted      Profile for Tatiana   Email Tatiana         Edit/Delete Post 
I really like time stasis fields from Niven's known space. They make an object infinitely hard and impermeable. You could build frictionless engines that way.

Also room temperature superconductors. And Ringworlds. Oh and stepping disks like on the Puppeteer home planet. So you can walk in a few minutes to anywhere on the planet. And those time-stasis spaceship hulls are pretty cool too.

Using generated gravity as an art form, a la the planet Kobold in Niven's Protector. That was the coolest place! I loved the waterfall that fell smoothly both ways from the big donut planet to the spherical one balanced in the middle of the donut hole. So you could easily swim from one to the other.

I love the whole idea of having genius adult forms of humanity who protect the rest of us, though the battles between bloodlines were no good. I would like to make the transition to Protector. I want to know all the things I'm not smart enough to realize now, and I want to live for thousands of years.

Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jhai
Member
Member # 5633

 - posted      Profile for Jhai   Email Jhai         Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't come across it before, Noemon. Thanks!

Edit: the wiki entry for Babel-17 lists several other books & stories that play with the concept, for anyone interested.

Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Jhai:
I had to pick one author whose concepts I've found the most intriguing, it would be, hands down, Ted Chiang (there are links to some of his short stories in his wiki). One of my favorites is his story of a world similar to ours, except that it is simple fact that a God (roughly similar to the one depicted in the Old Testament) exists and causes bad things and good things to happen to people. Then there's the story about a linguist learning to communicate with visiting aliens, and the effect that learning the language has on her mental perceptions (basically, what if the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis were true?) Fascinating stuff, and highly recommended.

Those are "Hell is the Absence of God" and "Story of your Life", respectively.

Two more fun ones by him are "Tower of Babylon" and "Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate".

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teshi
Member
Member # 5024

 - posted      Profile for Teshi   Email Teshi         Edit/Delete Post 
I like the Tower of Babylon story by Ted Chiang.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sean Monahan
Member
Member # 9334

 - posted      Profile for Sean Monahan   Email Sean Monahan         Edit/Delete Post 
The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate was definitely a good one.

I don't know if it's my favorite, but I liked the idea of the Melding Plague in Alastair Reynolds' books. In a far future, where nanotech implants in the brain and body are commonplace, a plague arose that develops only in the nanotech implants and spreads to the rest of the natural body. Those without nano-implants are immune.

Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ecthalion
Member
Member # 8825

 - posted      Profile for Ecthalion   Email Ecthalion         Edit/Delete Post 
i do enjoy the concept of shadow walking from Roger Zelazney's Amber series.
Posts: 467 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Jhai:
I haven't come across it before, Noemon. Thanks!

[Smile] Sure!

A technology that I find myself wishing for a lot is that of the nullentropy bins from the the later "real" Dune books. It isn't flashy or anything, but man would it be nice. The alternate universe gate in S.M. Stirling's Conquistador would be fantastic to have too. Neither of these things wowed or amazed me, but I'd love to have both of them.

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
I'll also remind people that midi-chlorians do not "give" you the force. Midi-chlorians just grow more numerous in people with high force sensitivity. They are an indicator, not the cause.

Making them essentially useless. Why even bother having a "force count" err "midichlorians?" You basically have a machine tell you exactly how good you can become as far as your force training is concerned. The midichlorians were unnecessary.

The force isn't necessarily genetic, Anakin's mother and father are not mentioned as having the force (At least I'm pretty sure that's the case).


It's strongly implied that Anakin's was conceived by the Force itself. But yes, a Force sensitive individual can have non-Force sensitive parents. Such is true for many genetic traits.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
i do enjoy the concept of shadow walking from Roger Zelazney's Amber series.
That was fascinating and disturbing.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Ecthalion:
i do enjoy the concept of shadow walking from Roger Zelazney's Amber series.

Me too. Although I think I'll stay on Earth for a while...
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
They're all earth...
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Leonide
Member
Member # 4157

 - posted      Profile for Leonide   Email Leonide         Edit/Delete Post 
One of my favorite ideas is from the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons--

SPOILER if you haven't read the original Hyperion, and an additional (thought not as big) spoiler if you haven't read Endymion
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*


the Resurrection Creches. Once you accept the conceit of the cruciform in the first place, it is a completely amazing direction to take, a mind-blowing extrapolation of the concept of biologically-assisted resurrection.

Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
vonk
Member
Member # 9027

 - posted      Profile for vonk   Email vonk         Edit/Delete Post 
My favorite concept from a book is that Gods are created by the belief of people. It's all over the place. OSC's Enchantment, Tom Robbins, Neil Gaiman, Terry Pratchett, Douglas Adams. Is there a formal term for it?
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sean Monahan
Member
Member # 9334

 - posted      Profile for Sean Monahan   Email Sean Monahan         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Leonide:
One of my favorite ideas is from the Hyperion series by Dan Simmons--

Ah, that reminded me of another one. I was fascinated by Merlin's Sickness. I know this isn't an original concept, but it's the first place I encountered it.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
vwiggin
Member
Member # 926

 - posted      Profile for vwiggin   Email vwiggin         Edit/Delete Post 
In Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series, a good king must personally execute the prisoners he condemned to death so he may appreciate the true cost of his judgments.

*Buffy series spoiler*
.
.
.

I also really liked Willow's final spell in the last episode of Buffy. It turned the traditional "chosen one" mythology on its head, and it is consistent with the positive self-empowerment message that has been a trademark of the Buffy series.

Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Corwin:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecthalion:
i do enjoy the concept of shadow walking from Roger Zelazney's Amber series.

Me too. Although I think I'll stay on Earth for a while...
Is your username taken from the hero of said books?

I really liked the scale of the Amber cosmology... it's one of the few modern books to show you the universe from the gods perspective. The deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers he manipulated into worshiping him doesn't so much as faze Corwin, yet he feels very strong emotions for individual mortals he's made the acquaintance of, for example... something that seems terrible, but also very natural for an immortal being.

Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
Lightsabers are the best thing for a sci-fi fantasy movie because they make melee weapons not only relevant but ridiculously awesome in a world full of also awesome energy weapons.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
They're all earth...

Actually, they're all Amber. [Wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by Corwin:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecthalion:
i do enjoy the concept of shadow walking from Roger Zelazney's Amber series.

Me too. Although I think I'll stay on Earth for a while...
Is your username taken from the hero of said books?
Yeap. [Smile]


quote:

The deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers he manipulated into worshiping him doesn't so much as faze Corwin

He says something like "the sad truth is that we were their gods and that was that", but yeah, at that time he still thinks it's all worth it for him and doesn't think too much about whether it's worth it for the soldiers.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
Corwin is very much a Zelazny hero -- an evil bastard with godlike powers who just happens to be not *quite* as evil and bastardly as those he's fighting against.

quote:
In Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series, a good king must personally execute the prisoners he condemned to death so he may appreciate the true cost of his judgments.
That has resonated with us since we started living a lifestyle where we're able to raise (and kill) all of our own meat.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
Every time Porter kills a goat, he first sentences it to death in a kangaroo court. [Wink]
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tatiana
Member
Member # 6776

 - posted      Profile for Tatiana   Email Tatiana         Edit/Delete Post 
That would totally make me into a strict vegetarian, I bet. As of now, I still eat meat occasionally though I can't imagine killing and cooking and eating an animal I had fed and cared for. I'm a hypocrite when it comes to meat eating. I mostly to stick to my vegan diet at home but when people invite me over and feed me, I eat whatever they're serving. But I know that if I knew the animal personally, I couldn't do that. Is it hard for you?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Is it hard for you?
The first time I killed an animal to eat it, it was hard. Not traumatic, but difficult. Especially because I really loved that kid.

But you know, I really appreciated that meat in a way I never had before.

As Pi Patel teaches, you can get used to anything.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
[QB]
quote:
Is it hard for you?
The first time I killed an animal to eat it, it was hard. Not traumatic, but difficult. Especially because I really loved that kid.
I don't know if I've mentioned it, but I really respect what you and bev have done in terms of the farm in general, the slaughtering of your own livestock, and raising what promise to be very self sufficient children on that farm. I'm really glad that your circumstances were such that it's something that you could do, and that bev pushed to make it happen.

As you and I have discussed, I feel like I should kill an animal at least once, given that I eat them. I don't know what would happen after that in terms of my meat consumption, honestly.

I don't think that I could kill a creature that I loved for food, though, unless I was starving (and even then I'd feel quite a bit of regret). How is it that you don't feel guilt about it, given that you loved the kid? I realize that the question could sound accusatory or judging, but I hope you know me well enough to know that it's not; I really am just curious.

Do you feel like slaughtering your own livestock on a regular basis has changed you? Do you feel like all of the changes are for the better? These are pretty personal questions for 2009 Hatrack, so if you'd rather answer them off forum (or not at all) I completely understand.

quote:
But you know, I really appreciated that meat in a way I never had before.

I can imagine.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
As you and I have discussed, I feel like I should kill an animal at least once, given that I eat them.
I think this is something that every meat-eater should do.

quote:
I don't think that I could kill a creature that I loved for food, though, unless I was starving (and even then I'd feel quite a bit of regret). How is it that you don't feel guilt about it, given that you loved the kid?
That goat existed for one purpose only, and that was to be eaten. There's no reason for me to feel more guilty for killing and eating him than I do for killing (indirectly) and eating the hamburger I buy at a restaurant.

Quite a bit less, in fact. As far as meat-bound livestock is concerned, he had a very good life. He was happy, comfortable, and the end was quick and humane.

Me loving him did not in any way elevate him above the status of livestock, it just meant that he got some extra attention which made his life even better. It did not give me any obligations to him that I didn't already have.

quote:
Do you feel like slaughtering your own livestock on a regular basis has changed you? Do you feel like all of the changes are for the better?
It hasn't changed me as much as it would some people. I've never been one to anthropomorphize critters and pretend that they're funny-shaped people or that they're part of the family.

But the changes that it has made have all been good ones. It's made me more aware of the cost of doing business as a practicing omnivore, which has helped make me more away of the CDB in the first world with a first world lifestyle. It's made me more appreciative and grateful for what we have.

And it's made it so that my dinners are tastier than they were before. Or at least they seem that way. [Smile]

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tatiana
Member
Member # 6776

 - posted      Profile for Tatiana   Email Tatiana         Edit/Delete Post 
I think calling it "anthropomorphizing" is actually the mistake, though I understand that I'm in the minority opinion on that so far. Like, animals, and mammals in particular, actually ARE anthropomorphic, just as we're felipomorphic or whatever, because we're all cousins. That's why we have so much in common, in other words. It's not something we have to pretend because it's just true. We had common ancestors something like sixty million years ago or less (with the mammals). That shows in many ways. We get along really well together, and understand each other well, etc.

I feel when I take care of an animal and feed and doctor it, that I'm acting as a parent to that animal, and by trusting me they're accepting me as a parent. So for me there's an implied contract with the animal that goes along with that. One that says I'll act in the animal's personal best interest, to the best of my ability. That contract is what I would feel horrible about breaking. I'm with Noemon that even if I were starving I don't know if I would be able to butcher and eat a beloved animal.

I see a real parallel between how Heavenly Father treats us, his children, and our relationship to other animal species. In both situations, there's one who is more powerful and intelligent, and they deign to show love to the lesser beings. I guess I would feel it was a betrayal both to the animal and to my Heavenly Father in whose stead I act toward the other animals, if I then slaughtered my child/beast/livestock and ate it.

I can't reconcile any of this with the fact that I've been a meat eater for most of my life, and still do eat meat upon occasion. I don't know the animals personally that I've eaten, but if I did, I know I would like them. That's why I do try to stay vegan. That plus the health and taste benefits. Food tastes better when you stop eating meat for some reason.

Obviously these ideas don't apply to people who don't feel as I do. I'm not saying that everyone should become vegetarian, though I obviously think it's a great idea for many reasons, including global warming. (Livestock emit more greenhouse gases than all the cars, planes, trains, ships, and buses combined.) I think everyone has to make their own moral choices about these things, and health choices as well. Some people may not do well on a strict vegetarian diet for health reasons.

Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your philosophy here. It gives me food for thought, so to speak, as I struggle to reconcile my various thoughts on the subject.

Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I feel when I take care of an animal and feed and doctor it, that I'm acting as a parent to that animal
That is the exact sort of anthropomorphizing that I was talking about.

When I take care of an animal, I am not taking on the role of a parent. Animals are not people. Now matter how much I love and care for a critter, I cannot have a parent-child relationship with an animal, and I do not pretend like I can.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post 
I've killed deer before while hunting, and had absolutely no problem with it - I actually felt better eating those deer than I would a hamburger, since I knew that deer lived a natural life in the wild, instead of being kept in a cage.

OTOH, like others here, if I had known the deer for 2 years, fed it, pet it, talked to it casually while I was working, given it a name... I don't know if I'd be able to kill it. It's not from any philosophy that makes me think it's wrong, it's just the gut "don't kill your friends" instinct, regardless of how silly I realize thinking of a food animal as a "friend" is. I suppose if I did it enough I'd get used to it.

Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post 
I really feel like I ought to kill an animal now if I am going to continue eating meat, it's a novel sensation to read a Hatrack thread and feel like now there's something I ought to do.

I am endlessly fascinated with Porter and Bev's decision to have a farm and raise a family. I know it's strange, but I think about Porter and Bev's (and yet I've never met them) lifestyle at least once or twice a week doing completely unrelated things.

I also agree with the sentiment that when it comes to animals, it simply isn't the same relationship as a parent/child. When you own a cat and the cat really adores you it still does not identify you as a fellow cat it thinks of you as another animal that it really adores.

Dog's have no problems eating human carcasses when they get hungry enough, I don't see why it shouldn't work vice versa.

Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2