posted
What do you think? Are these the most spiritually significant films ever made? I didn't vote this year, but I may have to throw my weight around next year to try and get Brazil on the list...
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posted
Wow, I didn't think Groundhog Day and Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind were even in the same playing field. This list is random and weird.
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posted
I think the idea was to keep the exact definition of "spiritually significant" a little vague. I must admit, I fing Groundhog Day a bit baffling myself, but I can understand just about everything else on the list. Of course, as I said, Brazil needs to be on there somewhere...
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posted
From the FAQ (Fah-kyu): Regarding the spiritual depth of the films: How far did you go in evaluating a film as having worthwhile spirituality if it didn't include explicitly Christian messages? As a general rule, users of Arts & Faith implicitly or explicitly profess Christian faith. The only standard for debate was that these films must somehow be "spiritually significant," although that phrase was deliberately left undefined. As a result, the list reflects some films that are nearly word-for-word adaptations from Scripture, whereas other films rest more on the common ground we all share as created beings.
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posted
I love Groundhog's Day! Despite the inane repitition, I never have gotten tired of it. I find it very much a spiritual movie. It is totally a commentary on how to lead a meaningful life. A man has to live one day over and over and over until he gets it right. It's like reincarnation in a nutshell. What's not to get?
posted
It's interesting that you say Brazil... because I can agree with that.
Our hero fails because he denies the calling of the divine to free the people from slavery...instead following his own greedy passions and fantasy.
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posted
What, "The Ten Commandments" doesn't make the cut? I guess that's more "religious" than "spiritual", but it's also an incredibly "significant" film.
posted
This is made by the same kind of people who claim to be not religious, but spiritual.
Any list that puts American Beauty, Hell House, and the Life of Brian in the same uplifting category doesn't have any credibility.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I have to agree. That list and those who made it have NO credibility in spiritual matters. Then again, neither does Hollywood.
Wouldn't mind seeing our own lists. You may even add those films that are non-Hollywood and even denominational -- so long as it is accessable to the public outside of a Church. At this time I haven't thought much about it, so can't make a list. Maybe later. It will be a short one.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Well, first off as someone who believes himself to be spiritual. Secondly, considering what movies they happened to pick; few having any actual spiritual quality. Thirdly, the self-identification of those who picked that happen to reject the very things that are supposed to be the MOST spiritual; organized religion of any sort.
Now, as an athiest and therefore someone who points out very succinctly your lack of spiritual beliefs it is completely understandable why you don't understand. It is equally true that some of those who would agree with the above list probably belong to that same group who picked. Its the same as saying that Ufologists are a legitimate scientific group just because a lot of people agree with them.
Now, I could say "to me," but I don't believe I would be the only one who rejects the above list. Therefore, I would even go so far as to say "to many" they have NO credibility. Frankly, I should say "to anyone other then themselves" they have NO credibility.
Edit] I guess I should explain a little more about the organized portion of my statement. It seems to me that most of the picks are more about Humanist moralisms than connections to God; if even that exists. In fact, many of them reject religious things outright if they mention them at all. I believe, and most people agree, that spiritualism without a recognition of God or even God(s) (with or without organization backing) is not true spiritualism. It is from that where the list is most lacking and becomes more about "feel good humanism" than actual spiritual upliftment.
posted
I found the list to be mainly of movies that I enjoyed, but I don't know that I'd group them together for spiritual significance.
I'll have to think about it and do some pondering about what Andrei Rublev and Punch-Drunk Love have in common.
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posted
"Frankly, I should say 'to anyone other then themselves' they have NO credibility."
Ah. Because when you're making statements with no actual supporting data, it's best to err on the side of "sweeping" instead of merely "accurate."
"I believe, and most people agree, that spiritualism without a recognition of God or even God(s) (with or without organization backing) is not true spiritualism."
How do you know that most people agree? Frankly, it seems to me that almost everyone who primarily describes themselves as "spiritual" rather than "religious," when asked, is specifically speaking in the broader sense that you apparently discount. Moreover, since the list was not restricted to films that did not recognize God, and the majority of the people making the list were in fact Christian (according to the list's creators themselves), your suppositions regarding motive and bias are unfounded.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Occasional, I still don't understand where one person's "authority" on spiritual matters is more significant than another person's.
In my opinion, when it comes to lists of ANY kind, comedy or whatever, the list is mostly just significant to the group of people who created it. Your list of best spiritual movies probably wouldn't match up with mine. Likewise, I'm betting your list of best comedies wouldn't mesh well with mine.
PS -> There are a lot of films on that list I haven't even heard of, as I am, um, foreign-film deprived. Recommendations, anyone?
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I think the problem is that they didn't define "spiritual." Do they mean merely life-inspiring? Do they mean increases faith in the supernatural? Do they mean turns thoughts to the possibility of there being something bigger than ourselves, but being careful to not define that something?
posted
Well, then, I think that those who mark themselves as spritual when they are not religious are not truely spiritual; but humanist. In other words, I don't think that anyone can actually be spiritual without at the same time religious.
I would add that a majority of those who say they are spiritual, but not religious, are probably actually both. It would be nice to have a follow up question; do you believe in God(s) or a paranormal power beyond yourself? If they say "yes" to that, then they are both. So, maybe I am wrong and a majority are not religious, but I wouldn't say they are spiritual either.
posted
"Do they mean turns thoughts to the possibility of there being something bigger than ourselves, but being careful to not define that something?"
I would argue that The Exorcist -- even by this standard -- is considerably less spiritual than Groundhog Day, as it turns God vs. the Devil into a tennis match rather than an existential or spiritual question.
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"I think that those who mark themselves as spritual when they are not religious are not truely spiritual; but humanist."
What about animists and Buddhists, who are clearly not humanist and yet don't believe that the spiritual has anything to do with God?
posted
They may not believe in God, but my guess is they believe in a paranormal connection. If they don't, then I believe they are not spiritual, but actually humanist or "purity" materialists.
p.s. I would say the "paranormal connection" would be equal to a "god figure" as it denotes a controlling or enlightning element beyond the experience of mere existance.
posted
I think Groundhog Day really IS a very spiritual film, as well as a funny one. The main character goes on a journey, eventually learning that life is lived best in the moment, and that it is a joyous thing.
It's a character achieving enlightenment (which Bill tried for in the Razor's Edge with less success-- I may be wrong about that, as I was too young for that movie when I saw it).
I do, however, have difficulty seeing spirituality in American Beauty . That one baffles me totally. Can't speak for Hell House, as I haven't seen it.
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posted
I would have to say that I am Christian and I can see some reasoning for most of the movies I've seen on the list.
It seems to me like the movies on the list are all movies that somehow spark conversation about your religious/spiritual views, or introspective thought about them. It's unfair to say that the people who made it don't know what they're talking about, maybe because movies you think are spiritual aren't on it, and movies you don't think are spiritual are. I personally don't think that the 10 Commandments is super-spiritual, mostly because I can't relate to God speaking to me through a burning bush. I can relate to God speaking to me through other people and through my experiences, so some of those movies, though not strictly spiritual, are spiritual to me.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Hell House is a documentary about a church here in Dallas. Every October, they have a "haunted house" (Hell House) that instead of being stocked with vampires and corpses is stocked with teenagers acting out the activities that will get you thrown in hell. This includes gang rapes, murder, abortions, adultery - all the favorite sins. The supposed idea is that it's supposed to "scare people straight."
I think it's appalling. I'm sure it makes a ton of money, and that supports the church for the rest of the year. I'm horrified that this is from a church and that anyone involved thinks it either works to help people feel closer to God or is uplifting.
Amadeus (it continually questioned why God would inspire a less than perfect person with great talents) Chariots of fire Dogma (yes, I will even add this as its underlying message was one of purified religious devotion vs. mere observance; despite itself) It’s a wonderful life Jesus of Nazareth The Matrix (the first one only as it actually says something about faith beyond our existence) The Passion of the Christ The Prince of Egypt (sort of. It didn’t really have a highly spiritual center even based off the Bible. It was merely a retelling) Shadowlands (I include this by a hair because it often ignores the religious beliefs underlying the author’s motivations) Signs The sixth sense 2001: A space Odyssey (another one that I put in by a hair, mostly because it at least acknowledges a higher power god like)
films I have not seen, but sounds like I might or might not add to the above:
The Apostle The Diary of a Country Priest (maybe. Just because you have a priest doesn’t means it says something) The Miracle maker The Passion of Joan of Arch
The rest seem too anti-religious to be truly spiritual or are more about humanism than spirituality.
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posted
I haven't seen them, but I wonder why Breaking the Waves and Dogville made that list. The plots of both sounded fairly icky to me.
I agree whole-heartedly with Dogma, though. A crunchy, sarcastic movie with a creamy, sincere center.
I just watched Signs again last night, and this time around, it seemed amazingly spiritual to me. Not even in a solely Christian way. The belief in the non-existence of coincidence is actually a biggie in most religions.
I got to watch it with Ophelia, and it was cool that she wasn't one of those literal-minded people who came away dissatisfied. The man chose to be a person who chose to see miracles, and that was cool. I want to be like that-- to see the miracles in life.
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quote:The man chose to be a person who chose to see miracles
This is part of why I love Signs. He...chose to believe. It could have justifiably gone either way, but he chose to believe.
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posted
I am amused at this discussion. Partly because I am LDS and I know what the term "spiritual" means to an LDS. Sometimes we forget that our lexicon is so different from the rest of the world. I have noticed how other people use the term "spiritual" and nothing on this list is a big surprise to me. Would I make a different sort of list? Well, of course I would! But this isn't my list.
I sure would have made some changes in that Top 100 comedies list too. What the heck were they thinking not puttin "Princess Bride" on it?! (Tom, I don't know if the Top 100 comedy list I am thinking of is the same one you are thinking of.)
posted
"It could have justifiably gone either way, but he chose to believe."
Still ticks me off that he chose to believe that God killed his wife to send him a message, or permitted thousands of people to die in an alien invasion. But I guess some people might find "choosing to believe" a victory in and of itself, even when the choice is not only stupid but ultimately cynical.
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kat: Ah. That would explain why Occasional isn't using the word correctly.
posted
Well, first of all, spirituality to an LDS must be based on things that are true and that means truth according to LDS beliefs. A lot of the movies on this list that others find spiritual would not fit, like kat's example of Hell House.
But it also carries a very strong connotation of "edifying" and movies like American Beauty, while some might find edifying, is also rather, um "distracting". From a classic LDS POV.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: Still ticks me off that he chose to believe that God killed his wife to send him a message, or permitted thousands of people to die in an alien invasion. But I guess some people might find "choosing to believe" a victory in and of itself, even when the choice is not only stupid but ultimately cynical.
You know, I think I can totally understand why you feel this way. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
You know, there are times I wish the Mormon church would just invent completely new words for these concepts, if only to make it easier for the rest of us. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
*grins at Tom* He's using it in a different way than you would. But what makes you the authority to determine the definition?
Added: Speaking of, what is your definition?
For obvious reasons, there is no "right" answer.
Hm...Signs has serious plot holes, and that's one of them. But I think the idea/concept of someone choosing to believe is interesting and rang for me. The aliens part was a distraction.
posted
Main Entry: 1spir·i·tu·al Pronunciation: 'spir-i-ch&-w&l, -i-ch&l, -ich-w&l Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Late Latin; Middle French spirituel, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus 1 : of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : INCORPOREAL <man's spiritual needs> 2 a : of or relating to sacred matters <spiritual songs> b : ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal <spiritual authority> <lords spiritual> 3 : concerned with religious values 4 : related or joined in spirit <our spiritual home> <his spiritual heir> 5 a : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena b : of, relating to, or involving spiritualism : SPIRITUALISTIC - spir·i·tu·al·ly adverb - spir·i·tu·al·ness noun
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
When in doubt, I fall back to the dictionary. Of course, the dictionary doesn't speak with the authority of God, so I recognize that it may not be considered as authoritative to some audiences. But until the Mormon lexicon is the subject of an official revelation for y'all, I figure I can still grouse about it when you guys screw up perfectly good words. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
That doesn't quite answer the question, though - what is YOUR mental definition of spiritual? If you don't believe in a spirit/soul, what meaning does the word have?
posted
We LDS really do need to be more aware that we possess a different lexicon than is generally accepted. It would make communication much easier and annoy people less.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Besides, Tom is angostic. He may not "believe" but that doesn't mean he "dis-believes". Has he not said himself that he is on a search for truth? I think he is very much concerned with spiritual matters.
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