Hatrack River
Home   |   About Orson Scott Card   |   News & Reviews   |   OSC Library   |   Forums   |   Contact   |   Links
Research Area   |   Writing Lessons   |   Writers Workshops   |   OSC at SVU   |   Calendar   |   Store
E-mail this page
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Gay Rights XIV: Indiana's Bigotry Rights Bill causes problems, governor shocked! (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 13 pages: 1  2  3  4  ...  11  12  13   
Author Topic: Gay Rights XIV: Indiana's Bigotry Rights Bill causes problems, governor shocked!
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
After years of debate and months of final preparations, the military can no longer prevent gays from serving openly in its ranks.

Repeal of a 1993 law that allowed gays to serve only so long as they kept their sexual orientation private took effect Tuesday at 12:01 a.m. EDT.

I'll be blunt about this: Today is a sad and frustrating day for bigots, as:

1. homosexuals can no longer be discharged from the military over discovery of their sexual orientation. ::eagletear::

2. as a result, we get to find out that their premonitions and doomsaying over how this will 'hurt unit cohesiveness' or otherwise undermine the military and our society are exactly as dumb a cover for their homophobia as we expected they were.

The response was so completely predictable and telling that Free Republic has been forced to essentially delete all its threads on the event.

Here are some comments by the radical Left, not satisfied with the rate of damage they are inflicting upon our nation's vital institution of ensuring that gays know they are second-class citizens:

quote:
Personally, I am actually disappointed it took this long to be repealed, and I think that for progressives like me, it's indicative of the Obama administration. A simple, no brainer, progressive ideal that took forever to get through the legislature, took forever to implement, and is forgot about and not celebrated or championed by the administration as it should be.

It one of the reasons why people like me are so frustrated and disappointed in the White House, but still have some small bit of hope for the future.

Here's some articles which can help give you a snapshot of this event and the frame by which the repeal's opponents need to be remembered:

A gay soldier asks about DADT at gop debate, gets expected response from Santorum

Talk of the Nation: What DADT repeal will mean to servicemembers

quote:
MILLS: You know, I really did not know what to do when I woke up on Tuesday morning. You know, I felt an extreme sense of relief, you know, not having to continue to worry and live under that stress.

But it was - having to live under that was so extreme that when I woke up and realized I didn't have to, you know, I did not know what to do with that. Since then, you know, the only way I can describe it is, you know, an extreme sense of relief from not having to lie if anyone, you know, ever approaches me and asks me, or if I'm ever put in that situation again.

But, you know, truly the - you know, the big change I thought would be on Tuesday, you know, there has that - we've all just been going on our job, you know, same as before.

CONAN: Same as before, and as far as you know, nobody's been panicked, nobody's been - the world has not come to an end?

MILLS: Absolutely not, absolutely not.

CONAN: I wonder, as you move forward now, have you told anybody?

MILLS: I have - well, I've written a couple of articles, and then several of my former co-workers and bosses have contacted me, you know, just to express their support and, you know, express their congratulations. But as far as, you know, me coming out and telling any of my current co-workers or my boss or anything, you know, no I haven't.

You know, I just haven't been put in that situation, and I think a lot of other gay service members will probably, you know, have the same opinion. You know, unless we're directly approached or put in a situation, you know, we're just going to go about our business and, you know, keep that, you know, to ourselves.

CONAN: A lot of people - for a lot of people that I've heard, and including some in Chris Heath's article, one issue that seemed to be important was the ability to put their boyfriend or girlfriend's picture on their desk.

MILLS: Absolutely, that is something that was very important to me, actually, and something that I've heard. You know, some of my friends say, you know, they're looking forward to the day when they can do that.

You know, a lot of places where we work, our co-workers will come in with things like that, you know, photos on their desks. They'll be able to talk about, you know, their weekends. And I've always kind of been jealous about them being able to do that and me not being able to share that with them like they're able to share with me.

So we are definitely looking forward to, you know, being able to just be open about that like we were not before.



[ March 31, 2015, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Samprimary ]

Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Meh.
quote:
In 1989, Michelle Douglas was discharged from her position in the military because she was, "not advantageously employable due to homosexuality." She challenged her dismissal on the grounds it was in violation of the Canadian Charter of Rights.

In 1992, the Supreme Court ruled in her favour, noting the policy barring homosexuals from the Canadian military indeed violated the Charter.
The Canadian government and military officials accepted the federal court decision with little resistance.

...

Allowing gays and lesbians in to the the Canadian military has apparently been a seamless exercise.
A University of California study of the Canadian military's experience of allowing gays and lesbians into the military did not hurt morale, military readiness, or recruitment, as some conservatives in the U.S. argued.

The study, considered the most comprehensive academic study of homosexuality in a foreign military ever compiled, also notes none of the 905 assault cases in the Canadian Forces from November, 1992 (when the ban was lifted) until August, 1995 involved "gay bashing" or could be attributed to the sexual orientation of one of the parties.

Today, allowing gays in the military is big news in the United States, which might have some Canadians wondering: "What's the big deal?"
Hopefully, sometime in the not-so-distant future, Americans will wonder the same.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/canada-inclusion-gays-lesbians-military-seamless-study-202138692.html
Posts: 7497 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When I brought that up, the almost eerily universal response was to say that it just wouldn't be the same here, because America had a 'real military' with actual worldly responsibilities, and as a result needed a much more moral framework for its enlisted populace (chaplains, No Homo, etc).
Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As an active duty Marine, let me relate to you all the horrifying ordeal we went though on Tuesday when the repeal went through for us;

Our Gunny walked in, and in the middle of passing word said "oh, you're now allowed to be openly gay" He paused and we all looked around expectantly for about 5 seconds, then he finished his brief. And after 15 minutes of gay jokes, nobody mentioned it again.

Obviously, this repeal is having a massive detrimental effect on the morale and efficacy of our military.

Seriously, though, I realize there will be a rough period of adjustment over the next few years as more and more openly homosexual men and women join or come out, but I don't think it'll cause any serious problems. I don't come to work every day and loudly proclaim "I AM A HETEROSEXUAL! YES, I HAVE SEX WITH WOMEN!", I doubt gay service members will feel the equivalent. Bigotry on the part of homophobes may be an issue, but on the other hand I work with several people I personally can't stand and we get along just fine. Our military is professional enough to handle it.

The only people who really seem to have a problem with the repeal are Senior Enlisted and Field Grade/General Officers, typically 40 years or older. Just about everyone under 30 doesn't really care - we grew up in a more tolerant society. Obviously we still have bigots and people who oppose homosexuality for religious reasons, but even they don't show the extreme discomfort and abhorrence older men seem to.

Posts: 1612 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stone_Wolf_
Member
Member # 8299

 - posted      Profile for Stone_Wolf_   Email Stone_Wolf_         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had to stop reading the OP because the "you know"s were driving me past the brink of sanity! I don't care if your gay, but I swear to god, if you utter the phrase "you know" one more time I'll beat the crap out of you!
Posts: 5582 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.
Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tarrsk
Member
Member # 332

 - posted      Profile for Tarrsk           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Really? You think the only reason gay people out themselves is because they feel some need to share details of their sex lives with you?
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Xavier
Member
Member # 405

 - posted      Profile for Xavier   Email Xavier         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.

You (assuming male): "I'm going camping with my girlfriend this weekend."

Male Coworker: "Yeah? My boyfriend hates camping so I haven't been in a while."

You: "I prefer reverse cowgirl position."

Coworker: "Ummm... okay."

Posts: 5651 | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ambyr
Member
Member # 7616

 - posted      Profile for ambyr           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.

If I share the information with you that I went out to see a movie with my girlfriend over the weekend, you're right, I'm trying to make conversation and it would be polite to share a similar detail: say, that you cooked dinner for your wife.

See how I've explicitly outed myself? See how much information about my sex life I've shared?

[eta: Okay, Xavier beat me to it and said it better.]

Posts: 649 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Would talking casually about one's significant other the way heterosexu couples do all the time count as as an explicit admission?
Posts: 16601 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Darth_Mauve
Member
Member # 4709

 - posted      Profile for Darth_Mauve   Email Darth_Mauve         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I had a professor explain it to me this way 20 years ago. "There are only two reasons to by anti-gay. One is that you are afraid that members of the same sex will hit on you. The other is that you are afraid they won't."

Ok, that's just silly. Still, being able to bring a picture of your love and put it on your desk like all the others in the office, instead of having to bring a picture of your sibling and pretend, is a great step forward.

Booing the soldier in Iraq by some in the audience last night--is a step backward.

Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Would talking casually about one's significant other the way heterosexu couples do all the time count as as an explicit admission?
It did in the military.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.

It's actually mandatory per S4 §22-410 of the PC Culture Inquisition Required Decorum, so, good guess, but honestly why would you think that?
Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was making a joke about someone going out of their way at work to tell me "I am gay" because my first thought would be "I don't see how that effects me" or that I am supposed to share something about myself in turn. I was riffing off of Dogbreath's post about how he doesn't feel the need to overtly announce his sexuality and how it would be odd if someone did feel the need to yell out at work "HEY I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IS AWARE BUT I AM GAY, THAT IS ALL."
Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fugu13:
quote:
Would talking casually about one's significant other the way heterosexu couples do all the time count as as an explicit admission?
It did in the military.
You had to be VERY careful. If anything surfaced, even a picture of you with a partner, that was the end of your career for many soldiers.

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/140615384/dont-ask-dont-tell-is-done-what-now

quote:
Stacy Vasquez, who describes herself this way: "I like to say that I'm a government-certified homosexual."

Vasquez was a 30-year-old Army sergeant first class when she was discharged under don't ask, don't tell. Someone said they saw her kissing a woman at a gay bar, and that was the end of her career.

"It ended right in front of my eyes that day," she said. "That was a hard day."

quote:
Vasquez made a name for herself being a gay soldier. But many others kept their sexual identity a secret — like U.S. Marine Maj. Darrel Choat.

This is the first time Choat has publicly acknowledged that he's gay. He wrote an essay set to be published in a book on don't ask, don't tell coming out in a few weeks. In it, he writes, "I am a patriotic American. I am an officer of the Marines who loves country, Corps and my Marines. I am doing the best to serve proudly and honorably and I happen to be gay."

NPR spoke with Choat at the suburban home he shared with his former partner. He was wearing his Marine fatigues. His hair was clipped short. Choat proudly showed off a photo of him and President Obama from 2010 when he worked at the White House as part of the ceremonial Marine detail.

Choat joined the Marine Corps 14 years ago when he was 34 years old. He had to get a waiver for his age, but the Nebraska native was dead set on being a Marine.

"You know, swearing an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and bear true faith and allegiance to the same — and I take that very seriously," he said.

When he signed up, Choat knew he was gay. But he also knew that joining the Marines meant keeping quiet about that part of his life.

"I was a little cavalier. I thought, 'Hey, I'm squared away, I know who I am, this isn't going to be a big deal.' And over time, it became a big deal and it's something that just kind of creeps up on you — the small compromises, the things that you do, how you have to bisect yourself, bisect your life."

Choat rose through the ranks. He did two tours in Iraq in 2005 and 2006 during some of the worst fighting of the war. He had personal relationships, but he kept them quiet. Then last year, everything changed. The Pentagon was reviewing don't ask, don't tell. The federal courts were weighing in. The commandant of the Marine Corps at the time, Gen. James Conway, said the vast majority of Marines would not want to room with someone who's openly gay. Choat didn't believe what he was hearing.

"When you've got senior leaders in the Marine Corps saying things about the Marines they've served beside and served with, you just think, 'What is going on here? Why are you disrespecting these Marines? Why are you disrespecting your Marines?' "

At that point, a year ago, Choat wanted to speak out but couldn't. So he found another way to get his message across. As a student at the Marine Corps University, he decided to write his thesis on don't ask, don't tell. He designed a survey to gauge opinion on the policy, and he sent it out to other Marines. He remembers sitting in front of the computer screen, right after he had pressed "send."

"I mean, it was just like this huge lump was in my throat, and I thought, 'Oh My God. What have I done? What have I done?' " he recalled.

After all, he was a single 47-year-old man who didn't talk about women.

"If I'm suddenly doing a thesis on don't ask, don't tell, I just thought this bright spotlight is going to be shining on me and people are going to start asking questions, 'Well, what's up with Choat?' You know? And I was afraid of that," he said.

But Choat admits that part of him wanted people to know. He set himself on a collision course, knowing full well that people were going to figure out that he's gay. And some did — though this is the first time he's talking publicly about it. He has gay friends in the military who told him not to go public — that it'll be the end of his career. And they are choosing to stay quiet.

"They don't want people to think less of them," he said. "They're afraid of friends turning their backs on them, so they're not going to come out."

Choat said he's not sure what happens next. But he said all of that talk about Marines threatening to leave the force over this issue is nonsense.

"When they say, 'Well, you know, I couldn't share a fighting position with a Marine that's gay,' or anything like that, I say, 'Wow. So gay Marines have that much power that they can totally disarm you and defeat you just by their simple presence? And you call yourself a Marine? Come on, dude. What's your problem? Get over it.' "

quote:
"I expect some of them to shake my hand and say, 'Hey, don't care.' And I also expect others to, you know, not deal with me, not want to deal with me, to feel uncomfortable around me. I know they will. You know, so be it," he said. "I'm an American, I'm a Marine, I haven't done anything but serve my country honorably. That's it."

The Marine Corps ball is coming up in November. Choat says he's planning to go as he does every year. But this time, he's bringing a date.


Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Darth_Mauve:
I had a professor explain it to me this way 20 years ago. "There are only two reasons to by anti-gay. One is that you are afraid that members of the same sex will hit on you. The other is that you are afraid they won't."

Ok, that's just silly. Still, being able to bring a picture of your love and put it on your desk like all the others in the office, instead of having to bring a picture of your sibling and pretend, is a great step forward.

Booing the soldier in Iraq by some in the audience last night--is a step backward.

Obviously your professor wasn't familiar with the "bear" subculture of gay men, its been said that if Kevin Smith gave up his marriage and heterosexuality that he would be the Marilyn Monroe of bears.

When it comes to the military and being openly gay, I wonder what the political environment will be like for a career officer trying to advance in rank. Like Dogbreath mentioned, any of the malcontent with the repeal of DADT lies with the forty and up demographic who are typically the ones in charge. And it would be ridiculous if a soldier had to hide their family and home situation in protection of their career, it was silly before but post DADT... even worse.

Does anyone know what this means to soldiers who have been discharged via DADT? or if there will be any retro-active actions taken to honor the families of fallen soldiers who until late were not considered the same as the family of a straight soldier?

Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stone_Wolf_
Member
Member # 8299

 - posted      Profile for Stone_Wolf_   Email Stone_Wolf_         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Does anyone know what this means to soldiers who have been discharged via DADT? or if there will be any retro-active actions taken to honor the families of fallen soldiers who until late were not considered the same as the family of a straight soldier?
I was wondering this myself.
Posts: 5582 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
I was making a joke about someone going out of their way at work to tell me "I am gay" because my first thought would be "I don't see how that effects me" or that I am supposed to share something about myself in turn. I was riffing off of Dogbreath's post about how he doesn't feel the need to overtly announce his sexuality and how it would be odd if someone did feel the need to yell out at work "HEY I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE IS AWARE BUT I AM GAY, THAT IS ALL."

I think the point I'm trying to make is it doesn't really come up explicitly at work in the first place. A lot of the detractors seemed to think DADT was all that stood between our current disciplined fighting force and degenerate chaos and homosex everywhere. In reality, all it changes is you might hear "hey Bob, what you up to this weekend?" "oh, going to the movies with my boyfriend, you?" or see some guys in your platoon walking around town holding hands in their off time.

There might be a little more tension in the field. I've never been on a FEX or field op with female enlisted (my specific job is restricted to males), but we went out with a female officer once and it worked out all right. She made a weird little tarp lean-to to dress and clean herself in, and we attempted to be slightly less vulgar. I'm sure each unit can adjust to their specific needs and comfort level. (I know in our SERE courses, for example, males and females are frequently nude in front of each other in survival situations and there haven't been issues)

Posts: 1612 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Darth_Mauve
Member
Member # 4709

 - posted      Profile for Darth_Mauve   Email Darth_Mauve         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Last I heard (Months ago) is that it means nothing. The policy at the time was DADT. They Told, so they were removed. They policy may have changed but that doesn't undo their breaking of a policy.

Its like if we suddenly decided to admit all the immigrants who wanted to come to the US. Those who had crossed over illegally, would still be illegal.

Posts: 1869 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Does anyone know what this means to soldiers who have been discharged via DADT? or if there will be any retro-active actions taken to honor the families of fallen soldiers who until late were not considered the same as the family of a straight soldier?
as far as I know, they can reapply if still eligible. No guarantees, though — there's no restitution program in place.
Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
When it comes to the military and being openly gay, I wonder what the political environment will be like for a career officer trying to advance in rank. Like Dogbreath mentioned, any of the malcontent with the repeal of DADT lies with the forty and up demographic who are typically the ones in charge. And it would be ridiculous if a soldier had to hide their family and home situation in protection of their career, it was silly before but post DADT... even worse

As with the speedy and effective racial integration of the military in the late 40s, this is one of those things I think the military can actually handle better than the civilian world.

In the Marine Corps, Enlisted Marines (E1-E5) promotions are based on proficiency and conduct marks. Staff Enlisted (E6-E9) and Officers are based on fitness reports. These reports are very detailed, and are scored on every aspect of a Marine's character. His proficiency at his job, effective leadership, education points (either from a university or the Marine Corps Institute or some type of trade school), his rifle score, PFT and CFT score, MCCS score, his conduct off duty, his financial stability, his appearance, his attitude, volunteer work, etc. etc. etc.

Basically, if you have two Marines with similar records, but one is getting promoted and the other has stayed a 2LT for 10 years, it's obvious there's something fishy going on. And every Marine, from a boot Private up, has the ability to request mass all the way up to the Secretary of the Navy if he needs to. Even the die hard haters would be afraid of pulling any major crap because getting caught discriminating would mean the end of their career.

Which isn't to say everything will go smoothly, or that they won't try and do as much as they can without getting caught. In the end, we just have to wait 20 years or so for this generation to retire before it becomes completely equal.

Posts: 1612 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for being so informative Dogbreath, that really puts my mind to rest.
Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bella Bee
Member
Member # 7027

 - posted      Profile for Bella Bee   Email Bella Bee         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I never understood why the US government was behaving as if their military was so bigoted that they would be unable to deal with an issue that almost all other western countries (with or without a 'real' military presence in current war zones) have managed to deal with fine.

Of course there are some homophobes - just as there are a few military personal everywhere who still can't deal with having a female presence around. But I think that this policy in general did a disservice to the vast majority of the US military population - let alone gay people who just wanted to have normal relationships and family lives in public.

Now Obama just has to close Guantanamo, and his international profile (still very positive) will be fantastic. It might not really matter what the rest of the world thinks, but it's so nice to hear people saying such positive things about the US.

Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I had to stop reading the OP because the "you know"s were driving me past the brink of sanity! I don't care if your gay, but I swear to god, if you utter the phrase "you know" one more time I'll beat the crap out of you!

That drove me crazy too.

I felt like I was playing the thunderstruck drinking game.

Posts: 21617 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
(For the record, the Canadian military has a real presence in two thirds of the current wars that the American military is engaged in.)
Posts: 7497 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rakeesh
Member
Member # 2001

 - posted      Profile for Rakeesh   Email Rakeesh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Shh!
Posts: 16601 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_Frank
Member
Member # 8488

 - posted      Profile for Dan_Frank   Email Dan_Frank         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
(For the record, the Canadian military has a real presence in two thirds of the current wars that the American military is engaged in.)

Yeah, we need someone to bring us maple syrup. And... uh... hockey.

Okay those are the only stereotypically Canadian things I can think of.

Also I'm just kidding and don't mean any disrespect towards the Canadian soldiers out there risking their lives. And I'm sure most of them do love maple syrup and hockey.

And finally, my thoughts re: the OP... [Party]

Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So long as they bring some TimBits along to the war zone, I don't think anyone will complain.
Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I could survive on maple syrup, TimBits and hockey.
Posts: 21617 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*shrug* I do like maple syrup (relatively indifferent to hockey though) [Smile]
Posts: 7497 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I could survive on maple syrup, TimBits and hockey.

Your new name is The Human Diabetes
Posts: 14521 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_Frank
Member
Member # 8488

 - posted      Profile for Dan_Frank   Email Dan_Frank         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm with you, Mucus. Maple syrup is fantastic. I'm not terribly into hockey, but then, I'm not terribly into popular American sports, either.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Eek!] Hockey causes diabetes?

I need to schedule a test with my doctor.

Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For the record, I could jettison the syrup and TimBits and just live on hockey.
Posts: 21617 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
advice for robots
Member
Member # 2544

 - posted      Profile for advice for robots           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
TimBits? Is that something like Baco Bits?
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AchillesHeel
Member
Member # 11736

 - posted      Profile for AchillesHeel   Email AchillesHeel         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tim Horton's Donuts seem to be the official fast food of Canada, TimBits are akin to donut holes just way better.
Posts: 2297 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
As an active duty Marine, let me relate to you all the horrifying ordeal we went though on Tuesday when the repeal went through for us;

Our Gunny walked in, and in the middle of passing word said "oh, you're now allowed to be openly gay" He paused and we all looked around expectantly for about 5 seconds, then he finished his brief. And after 15 minutes of gay jokes, nobody mentioned it again.

The horror!

My marine buddies in Prague apparently suffered a similar ordeal. Gunny walked in and made a little announcement, somebody's nipple got pinched (not a new or unsurprising method of attack for a marine), and everybody went to work.

When I polled them last year about the change, to a man, they demonstrated that they were the mature, enlightened, and forward-looking young men that we brag about back home. They convinced me a long time ago that the military was capable of growing up and moving forward, and knows how to take good advantage of the talents of all its members, no matter their race, origins, creed or sexual orientation. Even one guy who had misgivings about serving with gay soldiers (due I think mainly to immature sexual insecurity), still asserted that the change wouldn't matter, because he was taught to be a professional, and expected anyone he served with to live up to the same professional standard.

Posts: 9734 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.

It's actually mandatory per S4 §22-410 of the PC Culture Inquisition Required Decorum, so, good guess, but honestly why would you think that?
It's similar to S4, §27-198, of the PCCIRD, (aka: "Picard")- a provision which states that when a friend or colleague states their admiration of a black television or film actor, it is necessary to list the black television or film actors you yourself admire.

And then there's S4 §27-253, which states that while singing along to Cee Lo Green songs, it is acceptable to include the "N-word," as long as it is duly explained or otherwise established that you have a black friend, or black relative minimally a cousin by marriage or a half uncle.

Posts: 9734 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_Frank
Member
Member # 8488

 - posted      Profile for Dan_Frank   Email Dan_Frank         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
Even one guy who had misgivings about serving with gay soldiers (due I think mainly to immature sexual insecurity), still asserted that the change wouldn't matter, because he was taught to be a professional, and expected anyone he served with to live up to the same professional standard.

Bingo.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For me, even if there were instances of say gay gang rape in the military, after the removal of DODT, those would be responded to (and hopefully in a more effective manner) in the same way rape involving male and women servicemen would be.
Posts: 14282 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Anthonie
Member
Member # 884

 - posted      Profile for Anthonie   Email Anthonie         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Marines Already Recruiting for Gays Lesbians"

in Oklahoma of all places... [Smile]

Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Anthonie
Member
Member # 884

 - posted      Profile for Anthonie   Email Anthonie         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Does anyone know what this means to soldiers who have been discharged via DADT? or if there will be any retro-active actions taken to honor the families of fallen soldiers who until late were not considered the same as the family of a straight soldier?
as far as I know, they can reapply if still eligible. No guarantees, though — there's no restitution program in place.
There is no official policy to reinstate or recognize those formerly discharged, however, there is a lawsuit filed by three former officers to be reinstated at their previous rank.
quote:
Although he yearns to return to active duty, Almy also wants to be reinstated to his full rank, which is why he filed a lawsuit with two other discharged officers. He said settlement negotiations are underway, and he awaits a resolution that will allow him to return to a different, hopefully even better, military.
With respect to formerly discharged gay service members reenlisting, according to the same source article quoted above from The Advocate:
quote:
Despite career delays, jolted personal lives, and in some cases, life-threatening despair over their discharge, former members of the military expressed in interviews an eagerness to reenlist that superseded any bitterness or hardships. They said the pull of service, the uniqueness of the work and lifestyle, and the desire to help the armed forces transition into an era without the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy motivated their decision to join the estimated 66,000 gay and lesbian people currently serving in the military, out or not.

Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Anthonie
Member
Member # 884

 - posted      Profile for Anthonie   Email Anthonie         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Now that DADT's down, and speaking of homomentum, DOMA is next
Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anthonie:
Now that DADT's down, and speaking of homomentum, DOMA is next

Don't hold your breath.

I think we have a better shot of SCOTUS throwing it out than we do of Congress overturning it in the next few years.

Posts: 21617 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Anthonie
Member
Member # 884

 - posted      Profile for Anthonie   Email Anthonie         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's true. Courts will move much more quickly.

I believe/hope that the current federal district court ruling that strikes down the section of DOMA defining marriage for federal purposes will be upheld by SCOTUS. The feds should defer to states about definitions for marriage...So at least that would be half of DOMA gone.

Then again, no one thought that DADT would blow away after only, what, 17 years? One generation?

Hopefully DOMA will fall more quickly as we gay people become accepted and respected as, well, people .

Posts: 293 | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Anthonie:
"Marines Already Recruiting for Gays Lesbians"

in Oklahoma of all places... [Smile]

That's recruiters for you. [Razz] If you've ever had the misfortune of being young and single and in shape, you probably know what it's like to be accosted by them. I was in college during the Surge in 07, and I remember just about every day I walked on campus I'd see a pack of various service members in their dress uniforms swarming towards me with hopeful smiles on their faces, like flies towards a fresh pile of manure.

The full article say they weren't able to actually recruit anyone (none of the people who were interested were qualified), but I'm sure they'll be back.

Posts: 1612 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Stone_Wolf_
Member
Member # 8299

 - posted      Profile for Stone_Wolf_   Email Stone_Wolf_         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
...swarming towards me with hopeful smiles on their faces, like flies towards a fresh pile of manure.
In this analogy, you are the fresh pile of manure...I would have worded it differently myself. [Razz]
Posts: 5582 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aeolusdallas
Member
Member # 11455

 - posted      Profile for aeolusdallas   Email aeolusdallas         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
If any of my co-workers felt the need to explicitly express to me the fact that they are gay, I would feel uncomfortable and wonder if I am supposed to detail any information about my sex life just to be polite.

If you have ever mentioned your wife or girlfriend then you already have detailed your sex life.
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
quote:
...swarming towards me with hopeful smiles on their faces, like flies towards a fresh pile of manure.
In this analogy, you are the fresh pile of manure...I would have worded it differently myself. [Razz]
Like flies towards an incontinent horse, no wait...

Like 12 year old girls towards Robert Pattinson!

I dunno, similes have never been my strong suit.

Posts: 1612 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Like 11 year olds toward Justin beiber.
Posts: 9734 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 13 pages: 1  2  3  4  ...  11  12  13   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2