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Author Topic: Disney's "Tangled"
Sterling
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Saw this a few days ago with family. Enjoyed it quite a bit. The 3-D is missable, but not awful or intrustive- it only plays to significant advantage in one scene with floating lanterns, it's pretty the rest of the time, and the movie doesn't go for a lot of "poke things out at the screen" nonsense.

The music is competent but not particularly memorable; there are no big songs that you'll be humming for weeks, and much of the action is perfectly content to go by without big musical numbers.

But the characters are the strongest point, something that may not be sufficiently highlighted by the previews. While you won't be enormously surprised by the overall plot arc- it is a Disney movie, after all- the players do actually pull off some unexpected things, yet things that rise believably out of their characters. "Tangled" is surprisingly willing to allow the male lead to be kind of self-centered and unlikable for a good portion of the proceedings, not "thief with a heart of gold who's just trying to eat" but rather "thief who stabs his partners in the back at the first opportunity to keep their share of the loot". And while Rapunzel is of course a plucky heroine, she also has very believable issues from her upbringing that haunt her through most of the movie. For a change, the villain is not a magical or physical powerhouse, doesn't have a small army at her beck and call, isn't fabulously wealthy and influential. She's just cold-hearted, manipulative, and passive aggressive in ways that are only the tiniest bit broad and probably not that far removed from behaviors many viewers have seen within their own extended families. And the inevitable animal companions are thoroughly charming, in part because the creators have the sense to allow them to be very expressive while remaining mute. A lesson I wish that, say, Mulan had learned.

There's a lot of good stuff in here- a recurring gag involving a frying pan, a short and very touching scene with Rapunzel's real parents, the extended not-entirely-friendly rivalry between Ryder and Maximus. On a whole the movie is visually well crafted, though not generally in a "wow, look at us, we're artistes" sort of way.

It's a worthwhile movie, and more, it gives me hope that Disney's people have a growing awareness of the tropes and trips of their previous films and aren't afraid to tackle them.

And in case anyone is concerned, there was nothing in this that my seven-year-old daughter couldn't handle. There's a little bit of violence and a fair amount of slapstick, and again the villain's manipulations may be uncomfortably familiar, but it's generally well handled.

[ December 13, 2010, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Sterling ]

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TomDavidson
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My daughters absolutely loved this film.
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Belle
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All four of my kids ages 10-17 loved it, though the one boy (10) did grudgingly admit he liked it "for a princess cartoon.'
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Samprimary
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quote:
A lesson I wish that, say, Mulan had learned.
I taunt my girlfriend with the assumption that she must just keep a requisite oriental orient asian shrine of orientalness to her eddie murphy spirit dragon ancestor somewhere, I just haven't found it yet.

I mean, that's how it works right? I saw it in mulan and mulan is asian!

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Lyrhawn
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I absolutely loved this movie. I loved the characters, I loved the voiceless yet incredibly expressive sidekick animals who I found both hilarious and possessing really great and distinct personalities.

I got a little teary eyed at the end, and really, it surprised me how invested I was in the parents' plight, considering they never spoke, and were represented only by facial expressions, but that's all they needed.

Loved it. Glad they brought back songs too. Seems like Disney has forgotten how to make the musical movies that really shined in the 90s.

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ketchupqueen
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Hmmm. The previews looked missable (not like "we'll skip this" but like "we'll Netflix it") but it sounds like this might be a good one to actually splurge and take the girls to the movies for, if I'm not having a baby this weekend.
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Raymond Arnold
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[ROFL]

Definitely falls under the category of "good movie."

My only issue was that I spend the whole time feeling a little weird about the mother character, since I DO know someone like that and she's pretty lonely.

SPOILERS

-


Also, thanks to Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, kept thinking about the socioeconomic implications of healing hair. The storyline made sense for the characters in question (cutting her hair allowed her to stop being an object people sought and start being a person), but she could have opened a hospital and helped a lot of people.

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scholarette
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Spoilers:


The over analytical feminist in me doesn't much like that the guy cut her hair. She should have chosen whether she wanted her super power or not, instead of having it chosen for her.

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TomDavidson
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Heck, at the very least, he could have demanded that she heal him, and then cut her hair.
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Raymond Arnold
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I think the movie sort of comes out neutral in regards to feminism. (I did spend the whole movie thinking about it) There's things I like and things I don't. I think they set out to tell a story that fit the Disney criteria without being particularly unfeminist (always a bit challenging when you're starting out with a story from the middle ages), but without any special emphasis on being pro-feminism, which is okay with me.

I think he had legitimate reason to cut her hair, and to do it at the time he did. It wasn't necessarily the best choice. But he only had a few seconds to decide. Leaving her with her superpower was essentially leaving her WITHOUT a choice - live in guilt for the rest of her life for not having saved him, or live trapped with this evil woman. (Granted, she could just lie, heal him, and then try to escape anyway, but in the few second he had to decide, I think he assumed, probably correctly, that that wasn't something she would do).

If he had time to articulate the plan, she certainly would have preferred to keep him alive, but without that time, had he let her heal him, both she AND he would have wondered exactly what his motivations were for the rest of their lives. Cutting the hair BEFORE she could heal him proved to himself that he was doing it for her, not for himself. And his feelings on the matter are not irrelevant either.

In a more feminist film, she would have been responsible for the climactic event that ended things one way or another. And yeah, that'd have been better. We do need more of them. But I don't think every film needs to actively be promoting girl-power. If the rest of the films in 2010 didn't have an overabundance of male protagonists I wouldn't be worried about it at all. As is... well, again, I'd have preferred if it ended with her being a bit more kickass. But I don't consider the film actively detrimental to our social fabric.

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scholarette
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As the feminist mother of 2 daughters, one who is obsessed with princesses, I have a harder time letting it fly. Mulan and Princess and the Frog I am good with (yes, mulan chooses family over the prestigious job but as a SAHP with a master's I can relate to that choice). I kinda hoped for another movie I could feel good about with this one, as opposed to wishy washy feeling.
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Raymond Arnold
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Fair enough. Do you have any specific thoughts on how you would have ended it, and/or re-orchestrated the entire thing?
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Lyrhawn
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Isn't there also the fact that by choosing to heal him and give up her freedom, she was also taking a choice away from Eugene as well? I mean, she's not weak. She wields a mean frying pan throughout the movie. And every bit of her weakness and naivete that does exist is attributed not to being a woman, but to being sheltered from civilization her entire life. She's not at all a traditional helpless damsel, she had a damaged childhood. And for that matter, so did Eugene.

I'd think the feminists would have a bigger problem with the mother being an evil, selfish, malicious, child-abusing literal backstabber than the would with Eugene's selfless sacrifice.

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Raymond Arnold
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So I was talking to some friends about the movie today. They were upset (in retrospect so was I) about the mother being killed, and about it not affecting Rapunzel in the slightest. My position was that there just wasn't room to show Rapunzel getting over it in the time allotted, and it would be hard to satisfactorily address in a kids movie.

"How would you have ended the movie?" I asked.

"Rapunzel's mom gets locked in a tower, lives out the rest of her natural life, and Rapunzel is her only window to the outside world."

"Holy crap!"

I don't know if that could have been appropriately addressed in a kids movie, but that is the most poignant way to end the story that they told.

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scholarette
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The evil mom did confuse my daughter. Mommies aren't supposed to be mean. Honestly, I am not sure how to make the movie more feminist friendly.
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PSI Teleport
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Just saw this with my daughter and we both loved it. I'm pretty feminist myself, but this movie didn't strike any wrong notes with me. I think it's because Flynn and Rapunzel were both well-characterized as people, their sex aside. They both have strengths and weaknesses, and acted as partners when Rapunzel could have easily been relegated to the role of damsel.

At the very worst, Flynn's decision to cut Rapunzel's hair was arrogant, in that he did what he thought was best for her. But it certainly wasn't anti-feminist. Their respective sexes had nothing to do with his choice.

Ray: There was no "rest of her natural life." She was using the power of Rapunzel's hair to stay alive. That's why, when she fell out of the tower, she turned into dust before she hit the ground.

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Shanna
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Saw it the day after Christmas with my mother and grandmother. I was seriously not expecting to enjoy it so much. I went in with low expectations but couldn't resist being drawn in with each passing scene.

Story and character-wise, I feel like it was a natural evolution for Disney. We've seen manipulative villains before with Ursula and Scar, but Mother Gothel was a whole new breed of disturbing. I certainly related to struggle of having an overprotective mother and I know friends with mothers who make the same cruel, passive-aggressive jokes. In reviews I read alot of talk about Gothel being a villain who was more gray than black and white, though I don't think I'd agree with that statement. But she puts on a good performance. The whole "I love you, I love you more, I love you most" trade-off was particularly uncomfortable.

I'm glad that the marketing was a big fat lie and the story truly belonged to Rapunzel. Maybe its because "Beauty and the Beast" has been on tv alot lately (and so I've watched it half a dozen times this week alone), but its the Disney princess movie that comes to mind first when I think about Tangled. I guess I'm just a sucker for rogue-turned-good romances. I don't feel like Flynn played any larger of role than previous "princes" from the Renaissance Disney films. I found him to be lovable and thought his transition was well-paced. I also enjoyed his sense of humor and was annoyed to hear so many people commenting in newspaper reviews that it was just an attempt to keep up with Dreamworks modern dialogue (its as if they've forgotten what Disney did first with the Genie in Aladdin.)

Rapunzel was adorable and her character was well-fleshed out for the most part. My biggest issue was Mandy Moore. I thought she did an excellent job with the acting and dialogue. Her voice naturally has some interesting highs and lows. But her singing just did not fit. She had the breathy, pop voice which the muffled consonants and vowels. I could make out only half the lyrics when she was singing. I kept wondering how the songs would sound with Jodi Benson (Ariel) or Paige O'Hara (Belle) behind them.

However, most of the blame for the music falls on Alan Menken. There was a time when the mention of his name would make me so excited. They always advertise him as the man who created the amazing music in "Beauty and Beast" and "Aladdin" (my favorite Disney film). However, he hasn't done any memorable song-writing since those films. I've since decided that his old-writing buddy and lyricist Howard Ashman is truly the one responsible for all those great musical hits. He passed away while working on "Aladdin" and its been downhill for Disney ever since. The songs in Rapunzel were easily forgotten and terribly cliched. A song called "I have a Dream?" Really?! Its a cute idea but its no "Be Our Guest." Mother Gothel's song works really well visually but is just boring if you're listening to the soundtrack on its own. Same goes for "I See the Light" which is pretty but no where near the heart-wrenching "Whole New World" or title theme from "Beauty and the Beast." I couldn't recall any part of the tune even after watching the scene a few times. Rapunzel's songs were completely a mumbled and dull blur.

Special shout-outs go to Zachary Levi for rocking his short musical solos (was not expecting him to do is own singing) and to the animators responsible for Rapunzel's parents. Not a single line in the movie and I still cried for them.

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Ray: There was no "rest of her natural life." She was using the power of Rapunzel's hair to stay alive. That's why, when she fell out of the tower, she turned into dust before she hit the ground.
I know that's how the movie chose to make it work, but it was an arbitrary chose based on what was dramatic. They easily could have decided that Gothel was, say, 70 when she started using the flower, and that when she doesn't get the hair in time, she rapidly ages back to 70, but then continues to live out the rest of her life. As long as we're completely changing the movie, adjusting our arbitrary magic rules is no problem, and the reversal of their fates is far more poetic that what they ran with.
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Emreecheek
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Wrong.

Lady Gothel found the flower, and then a couple centuries passed, and a Kingdom came around. This was in the beginning of the movie.

She was very, very old. Centuries old. The movie says so explicitly. Not just older than the king and queen, but older than the kingdom, and older than the village from which it sprang.

I thought the soundtrack was fantastic. Didn't care for the dramatic love duet, but didn't think it was bad. In fact, I thought it was one of the better soundtracks I'd heard in a while. I though Mandy Moore sounded fantastic, and was shocked to see her name in the credits as the singer, as I thought she sounded exceptionally beautiful. I made out all the lyrics.

Also, the movie clearly sets up that Rapunzel would never break a promise. And then she promised to go with her "mother" forever, if she can heal Flynn.

Flynn not only had his love for Rapunzel, but a moral obligation to stop such a heinous woman from attaining an even more prolonged immortality. I don't understand why it's anti feminist for him to have done so.

I loved the movie.

And now I'm done being contrary.

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
to the animators responsible for Rapunzel's parents. Not a single line in the movie and I still cried for them.
I got misty-eyed pretty much every time they were on the screen. They were incredibly expressive.
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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Wrong.

Lady Gothel found the flower, and then a couple centuries passed, and a Kingdom came around. This was in the beginning of the movie.

She was very, very old. Centuries old. The movie says so explicitly. Not just older than the king and queen, but older than the kingdom, and older than the village from which it sprang.

Okay, again, seriously, we are arguing about an arbitrary choice about how magic works, and we are talking about changing the movie. If we're changing one thing, we can change another.

In my hypothetical version, Gothel naturally aged to about 70, then starting using the flower, then aged 600 years or whatever. We then make the rules specify that when you stop using the flower, you near-instantly age back to the point where you were BEFORE you start using the flower, but not the full 670 years (i.e. insta-death).

The "started at 70" part is important so that we still get the dramatic visual of her rapidly aging.

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Shan
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I loved the movie. I loved even more that my teen-age boy insisted on seeing it. I loved that I laughed so hard, I couldn't eat my popcorn, otherwise it would have decorated my neighbors. I loved that tears welled up in all the right places. I loved that Eugene lopped off her hair, sacrificing his life to ensure she had one! Doesn't bug me at all that he did so, and I don't find it a clash with my "feminist" sensibilities. As mentioned above, actions and choices were made based on character/personality that was clearly set up.

I did have a hard time with portrayal of the "captor/mother" because it really brought to life some old ghosts, and sometimes it made me wonder how my kid perceives me. We play that "love you more, love you most" game which we learned from a children's book . . . and we can both get pretty snarky sometimes. *shrug* The ending of the captor/mom was both well-deserved and disturbing -- I just haven't sorted thorugh all those pieces yet.

I'd see it again in the the theater, and I'll happily get the DVD for future viewing pleasure.

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Geraine
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I was dragged along to go see Tangled on the Friday night Tron was released. My wife and her visiting grandmother wanted to see it, so I went along.

I'm glad I did. I thought it was one of the best Disney movies I have seen in years. I'm a big fan of Zachary Levi, I really think he has a bright future ahead of him. Mandy Moore was sort of ho-hum, but she did fine.

And I'll admit I'm a baby when it comes to father / daughter relationships. My wife and her grandmother didn't show any emotion, and I was sitting right by them wiping my tears away. I felt like a total sap. [Razz]

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