posted
So have been looking into the PMP area (a certification for project managers, see for what is PMP certification) and was curious about a few things. It seems to be fairly popular.
Have you ever heard of it/do you have or know someone who has gotten it? If so, what might their experience be?
posted
I'll be frank: I know two people with PMP certification, and both are incompetents that I want to punch in the face.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I know a few people who have it, one of them being a friend of my mothers. From what she's told me, the actual material is fairly useless/common sense, as most of it you will have picked up after a few years of project management anyway, but the certification itself is a nice shiny thing to put on your resume that does make a difference.
I myself have been looking into CAPM(the little brother of PMP) as I don't have the necessary work experience for the PMP. The material isn't too difficult, however there is a large amount of it to cover so it will take a while to study for it.
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posted
My experience mirrors Tom's. If I see someone signing emails with "PMP" or some other self-aggrandizing credential, it is almost assured that the contents of the emails are utter garbage.
It seems like PMP is mainly one of those things that people get to tack on to their CVs and email signatures. Actually, this seems to be true for most certifications. I tend to avoid working for those people.
I say this as someone who was (is?) certified as a software project manager through the Air Force's homebrew program, so take it with a grain of salt.
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posted
If you're in consulting work then having the PMP certification can be useful for your career. My (mostly government) consulting firm strongly encourages those eligible to go for it, since it's something they can brag about to clients.
In non-consulting work, it seems to matter much less, although it can be a nice line on your resume. I can't imagine anyone using it as an email signature without coming off as a douche, though.
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A PMP is, at best, a conversation starter, and perhaps something of a door opener. It doesn't mean squat about your ability to effectively manage projects - just that you passed a test after reading about project management techniques.
If there's an open position, a resume with a PMP might have a better chance to get a phone call. If you're already within a certain company and successful there, a PMP might help to show your employer that you're "serious" about self improvement, or whatever. (Plus, the aforementioned help for getting government gigs)
I'm actually looking to take the exam simply because my company is willing to pay for it (I'm a project manager). From the review course I took and reading PMI's guide to the exam, it looks to be long on theory and "ideal world scenario" stuff and short on practical real-world application.
The application for the exam itself is crazy with what they want you to document, too.
Basics to apply: 4 year degree and 4500 hours of project experience over a span of 36 months. Technically you're supposd to be leading these projects, but leading a portion of one or owning the completion of certain deliverables within a project apparently counts. You also need 35 hours of education, but this is fairly flexible (any collegiate business courses or company-sponsored ethics/skills courses can count toward this).
The trick is documenting those 4500 hours. They want to know every project, how much time you spent on each phase of each project, and how much time you spent on each sub-phase of each phase. It's a bit crazy.
I'm looking to take the test sometime this summer, but I don't expect to be any better of a project manager afterwards than I already am.
quote:Originally posted by Swampjedi: My experience mirrors Tom's. If I see someone signing emails with "PMP" or some other self-aggrandizing credential, it is almost assured that the contents of the emails are utter garbage.
I never thought about this before, but wow! PMP was a self-aggrandized credential on one of my former manager's emails.
And he was, no two ways around it, a disaster.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I laugh when I see most credentials listed in an email signature, really*. I don't think that it really reflects poorly on a certification that some people who hold it have a tendency toward self-aggrandizing.
*I should note, though, that I know people whose company policy is that their employees list their credentials in their signature block. That's silly, but it isn't the fault of the credential holder.
Posts: 1087 | Registered: Jul 1999
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A PMP is, at best, a conversation starter, and perhaps something of a door opener. It doesn't mean squat about your ability to effectively manage projects - just that you passed a test after reading about project management techniques.
If there's an open position, a resume with a PMP might have a better chance to get a phone call. If you're already within a certain company and successful there, a PMP might help to show your employer that you're "serious" about self improvement, or whatever. (Plus, the aforementioned help for getting government gigs)
I'm actually looking to take the exam simply because my company is willing to pay for it (I'm a project manager). From the review course I took and reading PMI's guide to the exam, it looks to be long on theory and "ideal world scenario" stuff and short on practical real-world application.
The application for the exam itself is crazy with what they want you to document, too.
Basics to apply: 4 year degree and 4500 hours of project experience over a span of 36 months. Technically you're supposd to be leading these projects, but leading a portion of one or owning the completion of certain deliverables within a project apparently counts. You also need 35 hours of education, but this is fairly flexible (any collegiate business courses or company-sponsored ethics/skills courses can count toward this).
The trick is documenting those 4500 hours. They want to know every project, how much time you spent on each phase of each project, and how much time you spent on each sub-phase of each phase. It's a bit crazy.
I'm looking to take the test sometime this summer, but I don't expect to be any better of a project manager afterwards than I already am.
:resumes lurking:
You'll probably learn more tracking down and calculating those project hours than you will actually studying for the certification. Maybe that's the real purpose of the program.
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afr, to an extent, yes. You really need to understand their phases and subphases in order to complete the application, which does reinforce the PMI's ideal-state way of thinking, sure.
Breaking the real-world-practice into their highly granular ideal-state cubbyholes - especially for projects that were completed years ago with a prior employer who retained all the documentation - can be somewhat irritating. Especially so if your applicaiton is one of the 10% they choose to audit, asking to see said missing documentation.
My company will pay for it, and I'll file it away with my teacher certification and bartender's license. If they choose to give me more money for it during next year's review period, I won't argue.
posted
Swamp, the PMP exam/certification has nothing to do with software. It's process and theory focused, even if it runs afoul of "assume a spherical cow" issues at times.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: :delurks again:
afr, to an extent, yes. You really need to understand their phases and subphases in order to complete the application, which does reinforce the PMI's ideal-state way of thinking, sure.
Breaking the real-world-practice into their highly granular ideal-state cubbyholes - especially for projects that were completed years ago with a prior employer who retained all the documentation - can be somewhat irritating. Especially so if your applicaiton is one of the 10% they choose to audit, asking to see said missing documentation.
My company will pay for it, and I'll file it away with my teacher certification and bartender's license. If they choose to give me more money for it during next year's review period, I won't argue.
:relurks:
Sounds like a nice, fat cash cow of a marketing scheme to me. You could make a lot of money thinking up skill sets that potential employees must be certified in. All you have to do is sell the certification course that teaches people how to vomit back the right answers about whatever you decided the skills should be. Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
"Sounds like a nice, fat cash cow of a marketing scheme to me."
Must be modeled off of the Educational Testing Service.
As for the PMI's "ideal state" - it really would be nice if all projects ran that way, and it's not bad to keep in the back of your mind as a model to try to hold your project to.
Overall, the quality of project management often leads to the success or failure of the project. To think that a person's having a PMP cert necessarily means they are better at project management would be foolish, though - it just means they a) have enough project experience to take the exam and b) understand enough about one set of project management best practices to pass a test.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Swamp, the PMP exam/certification has nothing to do with software. It's process and theory focused, even if it runs afoul of "assume a spherical cow" issues at times.
Oh, I know this. I'm just saying that my experience with project management is software flavored. Strawberry ice cream is still ice cream.
posted
To me, project management is the ice cream, and the software is what it's served in. Various software packages serve as the bowl/cone/cup/sandwich/etc with various levels of "fancy".
Of course, you can run a project without using any software tool at all... just as you can have ice cream served in your cupped hands... but it can get messy.
To extend the analogy further (and thus beat it thoroughly to death), a PMP Cert isn't much more than a fancy uniform the guy serving your ice cream wears... it doesn't tell you much about the quality of the ice cream or how it's served, no matter how much he paid for it. But the boss sure thinks it makes him look sharp.
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posted
I think that perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant "software" as in "managing software development projects" (strawberry) versus say "managing construction projects" (chocolate).
I have strawberry experience, and see the world through strawberry-colored glasses.
Posts: 1069 | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'll be frank: I know two people with PMP certification, and both are incompetents that I want to punch in the face.
Hm... I know a couple; one was a complete doofus, and the other is my current manager who is one of the most effective managers I've ever met.
I don't think the PMP has anything to do with either aspect.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:I don't think the PMP has anything to do with either aspect.
In general, I don't think certifications are the cause of douchebaggery in people; they can, however, be a symptom of douchebaggery.
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posted
I think a lot of it has to do with *why* you're getting the certification.
If it's required for your chosen job/career or is viewed positively by your employer for potential raise/promotion, that's one thing.
If it's because you want letters to put behind your name that your coworkers don't have or because you think a certification makes you somehow "special", that's an entirely different thing.
With regard to the PMP, you can probably get just as much benefit by taking courses in specific content areas (risk management, six sigma, etc) without taking the test. Even using the Guide to the PMBoK as an outline of topics you should familiarize yourself with is pushing you in a positive direction. At the end of the day, the exam is just another standardized test.
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