posted
So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing. Blech. It's hard because it's not that I'm especially unhealthy. I don't eat horribly and I walk a lot. Weight wise I'm fine, perhaps even a bit underweight. But, I want to start really trying to take care of myself and actually be healthy, not just not unhealthy. And I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen*, but I'm turning 24 next month and it hasn't yet, so I figured I should take measures into my own hands.
That, and my New Years resolution was to resolve to work out. So far its been going well... the resolve has been building. So I figured I'd try to use some of it on actual action.
I'm going to start doing push up and sit ups and the like - start small, that kinda stuff. But from what I hear, eating right is actually pretty important to building weight and being healthy. Specifically, I heard a rumor that protein was the way to go. And that's fine with me - as long as its not broccoli or green stuff. And then I hear (don't ask me where I hear this stuff...) that eggs are a good source of protein! Yay! I love eggs. Yum.
But now I'm hearing that too many eggs is actually bad for you. It seemed like a topic that was sort of in flux and not agreed upon by everyone though, so I was wondering if anyone on Hatrack had any advice on whether or not my egg binge (I just ate 4...) is counterproductive to my goals.
And of fat, and cholesterol. How much that matters depends on your diet overall, and your personal and family history when it comes to cholesterol, and to lipids in general.
Have you had a general checkup in the last year? If not, and you are insured, I suggest one. It should include a general blood panel, and I'd request a referral to a nutritionist.
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Just don't try to eat chicken only. I did, for like three months and then started to hate it. I love beef now Posts: 723 | Registered: Dec 2004
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I'm with rivka. Whether or not eggs are healthy or unhealthy depends on your individual body. Dietary cholesterol is an issue for about 10% of the population, for the rest of us it probably doesn't matter. Since you are in your mid-twenties and thin, the fat in eggs probably isn't a problem but it's a good idea to have blood work up to make sure. A basic physical is a good idea for anyone embarking on a new health and fitness plan, particularly if you haven't had one in a few years.
Your apparent aversion to "green stuff" is a much more likely to cause health problems than eating eggs. If you are at all typical of Americans, you're getting more than enough protein and what you really need for your health and building muscle is more fruits and vegetables -- particular those green vegetables you want to avoid.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: Your apparent aversion to "green stuff" is a much more likely to cause health problems than eating eggs. If you are at all typical of Americans, you're getting more than enough protein and what you really need for your health and building muscle is more fruits and vegetables -- particular those green vegetables you want to avoid.
All true, but I was going to let the nutritionist tell him that. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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*sigh*. I know, I know... My wife keeps me pretty greened up. I just dislike it. Though I think because I don't like it and am so conscious of it, I probably do a better job forcing myself to eat greens than I do other parts of my diet. Not that I eat enough, but it never gets completely neglected.
As far as getting a checkup, I do really need to do that. It's probably been 5 or 6 years, maybe longer. I've just kept putting it off. But now when I do go I will be sure to ask about health stuff!
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Don't eggbeaters have the same protein without the fat and cholesterol issues?
Personally I like to hardboil them and eat the whites, but I'm not sure if that removes any of the protein value.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Don't eggbeaters have the same protein without the fat and cholesterol issues?
For those who need to watch their cholesterol, they're a good substitution. However, they take "cheap" out of the equation, so if cholesterol is not an issue, why bother with them? They also are not as tasty as the real McCoy.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Personally I like to hardboil them and eat the whites, but I'm not sure if that removes any of the protein value.
Not a significant amount.
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posted
A little over 40% of the protein is in the yoke. Here is a break down.
Unless you have a diet linked cholesterol problem, there is little reason to throw away the yokes. Yes, that's where all the fat is but its also where all the vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids are.
Egg yolks have been unfairly demonized.
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quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing. Blech . . . And I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen* . . . And that's fine with me - as long as its not broccoli or green stuff.
I thought this was a joke thread. Is it not?
So, the practical advice that you don't want to hear: - Your attitude is the main problem. You need to commit to a lifestyle change. You're unlikely to succeed if you're negative. - Muscle doesn't "just happen". It takes a lot of hard work and study, and no one can do it for you. Spend some time on Bodybuilding.com and learn the basics on exercise and nutrition. - You need to start getting over your aversion to healthy foods. Maybe they haven't been prepared right? Maybe you haven't given them a chance? But an open minded adult should be able to enjoy over 80% of the foods out there -- including veggies. - To gain muscle, you will need to meet a minimum amount of protein for muscle growth, begin some serious training at a gym or equivalent (no, push ups and situps won't usually cut it), and take in more calories than you burn. - You can get the protein from any source, but some of the most efficient are chicken, turkey, fish, and eggs. Don't eat too much of any one thing, or you're likely to burn out. The following link will give you a run down on protein and how much you'll need daily: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htmPosts: 1204 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I perhaps made myself out to be more recalcitrant than I actually am. I am in reality a healthy, athletic person. I don't drink soda, I rarely eat fast food, I can run several miles quite easily, and I do, in fact, eat vegetables. For the most part I find their taste unappetizing and would prefer to be eating bread, cheese, or fish (my favorite foods) but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with my aversion to them, as long as I do eat them. Which I do.
As far as exercising, I couldn't care less if I look muscular or anything like that. If push ups and situps are worthless, thats that, I won't worry about it. But I can tell you that I have neither the time nor inclination to go to a gym. What is the actual point of exercising anyways? I'm a historian so the most strength I technically need is to lift boxes of books and documents (which can get very heavy, mind you). I'm mostly being facetious there, but if the only way to build muscle is to spend hours a day at a gym, it just isn't happening.
All I'm really trying to do is be more intentional about my health. Aros, you make it sound like to be healthy I have to be some obsessive health nut/muscle head, and if the options are that or do nothing, guess which I'm gonna choose? But I'm pretty sure there's a third option, which is gradually get into the habit of exercising and making sure I get all of the right nutrients and go from there.
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No, you don't have to be an obsessive health nut. Unfortunately, there's a ton of misinformation. A few hours with a good trainer or a fair amount of online research can dispel it.
A couple of points:
- Looking "muscular" is different from looking toned and healthy. And if you're just trying to look good, you have a few options. A gym is a great place to start, but you don't have to spend "hours". Between a half hour and an hour, three times per week, is enough to pack it on if you're doing it right. Without a gym, cheap, used home equipment can work. Pull ups and dips will really transform your upper body (but it's hard to work up to pull ups without some time at the gym).
- Wouldn't we all prefer eating other things? I would prefer eating cheesecake, but I'm not going to stuff my face with it every day. It's not healthy to spend all of our time eating what we "like". Food should be relished, yes, but do you honestly think it's healthy to eat your favorite foods every day? I like to drink alcohol, but I'm not going to down a pint of booze every day because I enjoy it (well, I COULD, but it won't do much for my health).
- You talk about wanting to be healthy, and then you ask "what is the point of exercising anyways". What's the point in shaving? What's the point in reading? What's the point in using deodorant? The point is that modern human beings don't get the exercise that we're designed to get, and we won't be healthy if we don't supplant it with some aerobic and anaerobic exercise. If you were on a deep space mission, you'd have to exercise to keep from wasting away. The modern lifestyle is much the same, just a bit less dramatic.
It all depends on your goals. Any doctor would recommend 30 minutes of exercise AT LEAST three days a week for health. If you can do that without going to a gym, good on you. If you don't want to build muscle, forget about the protein -- just eat right and get ANY Type of exercise (biking, jogging, whatever you enjoy). If you do want to build muscle, learn the basics of strength training and supplement protein (see my other link).
posted
It's the diet part that always screws me up.
I've done the whole 3-4 days a week of lifting and saw some good improvements in the weight I could lift, but never a change in physical appearance, which was disheartening. I worked out religiously for 6 months and never saw a change, so I lost focus and changed back to three days a week of cardio. I'm guessing it was the diet I was screwing up the whole time, but I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong, and didn't have the time to fix it.
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If you lift an amount of weight you can handle many times your muscles become tone and fit (they have stamina), where as if you lift big ol' weights that challenge you, you put on muscle bulk (they can lift more weight)...at least that's what I was always told in weight rooms.
If you are trying to look more muscly, you need to take in a lot of protean and lift (carefully) as much as you can handle (with a knowledgeable spotter).
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You need to be eating enough. Basically, you need to eat more calories than you burn. If you're not lifting (or not lifting enough), they turn into fat. If you are lifting but not getting enough protein, they'll turn into fat. If you are lifting AND getting enough protein, they'll turn into some combination of fat and muscle. The faster you put on weight, the higher the proportion of fat to muscle. If you're not gaining weight (fat or muscle), you aren't eating enough.
Basically, you have to go through bulking stages, where you'll put on both muscle and fat, then go through cutting stages, where you'll lose muscle and fat. The goal is to put on more muscle during bulking and lose more fat during cutting, becoming increasingly muscular in the long term.
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Developing muscle large well defined muscles is not simply a matter of doing the right exercises and eating the right foods. There is also a lot of individual physiology involved. Some people naturally develop well defined muscle bulk and some people don't.
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quote:Originally posted by Aros: Wouldn't we all prefer eating other things? I would prefer eating cheesecake, but I'm not going to stuff my face with it every day. It's not healthy to spend all of our time eating what we "like". Food should be relished, yes, but do you honestly think it's healthy to eat your favorite foods every day?
I think this is an unhealthy, in the mental sense, approach to food.
I mean, no, of course we can't live on cheesecake alone. The solution here is not to tell ourselves sternly that we have to buck up and eat things we hate; it's to find foods we like that are also healthy, to experiment with new ingredients and preparations, to expand our list of favorite foods. Turning eating into a chore, into a battleground between "good" and "bad" impulses, leads nowhere good.
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I asked if it was healthy to eat your favorite foods every day, didn't I? And in an earlier post, I stated that most people should be able to like at least 80% of food out there -- if they give it a chance.
There's a world of super-tasty, healthy choices out there, if people would give them a chance. From yams and summer squash, to artichokes and avocados, from broccolini and sprouts, to exotic fruits and nuts.
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This thread had a lot of potential. The first few posts were great and got me excited to participate. But then it devolved a little into an argument.
Aros, it was a valiant effort brother (or sister, I honestly can't tell from the screenname, no offense LOL), but as soon as Dr S said the phrase "obsessive...musclehead" you had already lost him.
Dr S, i don't think it's fair to say "obsessed musclehead" when no one would call a great musician an "obsessed musicbrain" or a legendary surgeon a "scalpel junkie" would we?
Someone who spends their time honing their body to do what they want it to do should be afforded the same general good manners, no?
That doesn't mean YOU have to be a top NPC bodybuilder, but you DID start this thread to express interest in fitness and a healthy lifestyle.
I agree with most of your points Aros, except perhaps about bodybuilding.com
There are some decent articles about the basics on the supersite, and Jamie Eason has some informative videos, but god help us if anyone stumbles across the forums over there and thinks that THAT is what "gym people" are like!
Seriously, everybody, stay away from the bb.com forum, you WILL be dumber when you leave.
Also, "taking in more calories than you burn" is a bit of an oversimplification, but for his purposes, it works and I understand why you phrased it that way.
Dr S, you seemed to get a little defensive with Aros when he criticized your attitude. Perhaps giving him attitude about your attitude was not the best way to defend your attitude? Just a thought.
You're not under any intrinsic obligation to put on muscle by any means, of course. But from your first post, can you see why Aros would think you had interest in it?
quote: my New Years resolution was to resolve to work out
quote: I'm stick thin as well and wouldn't mind putting on some muscle. I'd always kind of hoped that it would just *happen*, but I'm turning 24 next month and it hasn't yet, so I figured I should take measures into my own hands.
quote: So I'm trying to do this whole... eat healthy and exercise thing.
So you can see why he'd give you advice on how to go about learning about gaining muscle through exercise, yes?
No, it doesn't take hours and hours in the gym every day. That is a philosophy from the 70's, popularized by the golden age guys like Arnold, Franco Columbu, Robby Robinson, Bill Grant, and Leon Brown.
That simply is not the case. In fact, if you split up your bodypart routines efficiently, you can get in and out (as Aros said) in half an hour to an hour tops.
I do, however, totally disagree that three times a week is enough. If you aim for three times a week, you will get to the gym exactly twice. You will go to the gym twice and you will quit. This is not an indictment of you, I am speaking as a person who worked in gyms for years and watched people do it over and over and over and over.
To get started, you should go every day. Every single day for a month, go for half an hour. Then it will be a habit and one that you look forward to, at that.
The very first time your wife says "Wow your abs look great" or you catch her running her hands over your traps, you'll be bit by the bug and you'll look forward to going. (Yes, I know she says she loves you just the way you are, and that she doesn't care about muscle. Everyone's wife says that, that's why we love them, because they always love us. BUT, to be fair, she's never seen you with muscle on your frame. She's going to love the new fit you just as much as the now skinny you. If you put on muscle, and she DOESN'T like it, I will put on a pink dress and post a youtube video of my public admission that I was wrong.)
Even when you start seeing it in the mirror for yourself, you'll get hooked.
Going three times a week won't cut it, though. Too much time between workouts. You won't go back. No one would.
Once you're bit by the bug, start taking one day a week off. I take sundays off. Monday through Saturday, i go.
If you're into the functional aspect of getting into shape, there are entire gyms that are dedicated just to that. Versatile Fitness comes readily to mind.
Perhaps it's the idea of being IN a gym rather than outdoors that bothers you? If that's the case, there's some great info and videos on rosstraining.com He even has a book called "Never Gymless" that might be right up your alley if that's the case.
As far as the eggs are concerned, one thing to consider is that Omega eggs are almost the same price as other eggs, and have Omega 3 fats in them, which promote healthy cholesterol levels. You can get them pretty much anywhere you get other eggs. I get mine from food lion or walmart. The difference in price is literally in the $0.25-$0.50 cent range per dozen in my experience.
I also supplement with pasteurized egg whites (though as rivka said, it takes the "cheap" part out of it). I use the AllWhites brand and just pour them into a glass of milk and drink them. Pasteurized egg whites have no taste and have the consistency of water. So you don't have to gag at the prospect of drinking a glass of milk and snot LOL
Remember that Aros was right when he said that muscle doesn't just happen. But that's true about most things worth accomplishing. You have to decide on what you want, and take steps to make it happen.
I even wrote an article a few years back called "Major Changes" in which I wrote my own personal philosophy that major changes require major changes. To see it in your body, you will need to show it in your life.
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Wow, that's a lot of focus on your traps! I'm assuming that there's less focus on arms, chest, etc because of trap compound exercises?
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quote:Originally posted by Aros: Wow, that's a lot of focus on your traps! I'm assuming that there's less focus on arms, chest, etc because of trap compound exercises?
I wish it was that elegant. Just stubborn traps and calves LOL
posted
Well, The Rabbit was certainly right -- genetics do come into play a lot. I have huge pecs and traps without trying, but my arms look like string beans. I'd trade you problems any day.
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Thanks for all the advice everyone, really. I apologize if I was a bit snippy earlier. Though I do think next time I see a serious surgeon I'm going to call him (or her) a scalpel junkie, just for the fun of it.
I am interested in the further-down-the-road stuff (like going to the gym regularly). It's just not in the cards right now.* Maybe my initial post was misleading, but I'm not going for "major change," and I don't expect a lot of results from the small amounts of change I am currently able to make. I just want to make sure that the changes I am making are the right ones, and I am definitely open to advice on future and/or better changes. In terms of major attitude shifts or outlook on life or large commitments though, I'm going through quite a lot right now, so when things settle down I'll make those sort of decisions. And hopefully it won't be a complete shock to my system because I've started gradually!
In other news, I ate a massive (and I mean massive) plate of fried rice, complete with onions, eggs, carrots, peas, and beans. It was delicious. Also, I made myself a turkey sandwich for lunch, and I loaded quite a bit of salad on there. Greens and protein - what more could I guy want?
Which brings me to my next two questions (should I update the thread title?): First, greens. I know they're healthy and I need them and all, but considering I'm trying to bolster my activity level (I actually just got back from jogging up and down a flight of 100 stairs a couple of times. 109 stairs technically), do I also need to increase my green food intake? And if so, does mint chocolate chip ice cream count? (Kidding, kidding...)
Second question: In my fried rice I just threw in a whole can of vegetables rather than getting fresh ones. I'm sure fresh is better, but bottom line, does it matter for me? Is fresh just sort of icing on the cake, or is it actually giving me something I need for this whole "being healthy" thing that I can't get elsewhere?
Bonus question: Is not drinking milk a big problem? I love milk, but the city I'm in (Bastia currently) seems to... well, it seems to not have any. I'm sure I'm missing something, but I swear, I've been to a lot of grocery stores and looked everywhere, and its just not there.
*I'm currently in the fifth month of a seven month long research trip and don't actually even know where home is going to be at the end of it, nor where my next paycheck is going to come from.
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whatever little bit you do now, is more than you were doing before. So it's a step in the right direction.
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quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: I know they're healthy and I need them and all, but considering I'm trying to bolster my activity level (I actually just got back from jogging up and down a flight of 100 stairs a couple of times. 109 stairs technically), do I also need to increase my green food intake?
YES. In fact, you need them more, for the Vitamin K. And FYI, to count, they need to be DARK green. Iceberg lettuce does not count. In fact, most lettuces have little nutritional value. They don't have many calories either -- they're mostly water. But definitely not to be counted towards your dark green veggies tally. Think broccoli, spinach, kale.
Canned vegetables are high in sodium and pretty low in nutrients. If you're going for quick and easy, frozen vegetables (plain, not in sauce) are almost as good nutritionally as fresh. (Depending on the quality of the fresh, they can even be better.)
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Raw broccoli and ranch is yum. So is lightly steamed (or nuked) broccoli with a bit of shredded mozzarella.
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I just looked up what counts as "leafy greens" and yep, I am not a fan. All of the other veggie groups have at least one thing I really enjoy, usually lots of things. But my taste buds are quite skewed against leafs. And I have to say, I really do hate broccoli. But... I'm going to get some from the store tomorrow and try to figure out some way to make it appetizing. The smell of it is just so... flatulent. Excuse my descriptiveness. I did have a good idea about how to work spinach in though. I like pasta a lot, and I like to mix my own sauce, so I'll just throw in lots of spinach and hope for the best.
When I'm back in the States I think I might try to find some sort of liquified alternative... I'm pretty sure they exist and drinking tends to be easier than eating for me.
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You're probably a supertaster. How do you feel about aspartame?
You can make blended drinks from frozen spinach with not much more than a blender and a strainer, I'd think.
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What about broccoli shredded small with pasta in a cream sauce? Or broccoli salad with craisins and nuts is pretty tasty.
As far as leafy veggies go, I'm particular to spinach and Brussel sprouts (cut in half and sauteed until brown in butter and garlic).
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quote:Originally posted by Aros: What about broccoli shredded small with pasta in a cream sauce? Or broccoli salad with craisins and nuts is pretty tasty.
Yes and definitely yes.
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I can take or leave broccoli tops, but I love broccoli stalks, cooked with a little crunch still left in them and a tiny bit of butter and garlic salt. MmmmMmm!
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I'll definitely try (some of) those suggestions! I think starting small (grating some broccoli into my sauces, stuff like that) sounds like my plan for now. I'll probably do that for dinner tomorrow.
What I won't do again is what I tried tonight. I had scrambled eggs and sausage which, you might notice, does not include greens. And I didn't make my usual sandwich with lettuce on it for lunch either. But I really wanted to try to get those requisite "leafy greens." So I grabbed my bag of lettuce, closed my eyes, grabbed a handful, and stuffed it in my mouth.
*shudder*... I'm going to have nightmares tonight. If I'm going to eat lettuce, it definitely needs to be combined with something.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of the old computer game "Commander Keen"? I wonder if part of my distaste for veggies comes from that. Though potatoes were evil in that and I still like potatoes plenty...
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Again, lettuce (unless it is romaine or endive) DOES NOT count as "leafy greens". It counts as water.
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