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Author Topic: Hey JanitorBlade
scifibum
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Not all of OSCs forums allow regular users to delete threads. Is it really necessary to retain that setting on this board?
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MattP
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Don't we have this discussion every time this happens?
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Rakeesh
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Do we? It's been awhile, I really don't remember.
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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
Don't we have this discussion every time this happens?

I can't recall if it has come up since we got a new moderator, figured it couldn't hurt to ask.
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Dan_Frank
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Yeah, we do. Well, "we" is a relative term, the last few times this happened I was a lurker, not a poster.

I'm pretty sure it's not in the moderator's toolkit, though, which is why it hasn't happened.

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Aros
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This is a pretty important question. If people are deliberately crashing, trolling, or spamming threads, but they're not otherwise outside the TOS, then the moderator doesn't have much ground to put a stop to it. I'd always assumed that ownership resided with the original poster, as we're given the option to delete our own threads. Sure, it's a last-minute-nuke-option, but it is ours (as of right now).

Maybe we shouldn't have the option to delete threads. I don't know. But it would reframe the community a bit.

I personally think more threads should be deleted. People might show a little bit of respect for others, instead of thinking that there are no consequences to their actions online. But then again, I'm the evil censor.

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MrSquicky
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros (who threw a tantrum and deleted everyone's posts):
People might show a little bit of respect for others, instead of thinking that there are no consequences to their actions online.

Ah...the unintentional irony, it is like ambrosia to me.
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Rakeesh
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You say that like it's somehow ironic, but you can't quite avoid showing what your motives actually were. It was really important to you, for some reason, that there be some sort of consequences for people who said words you didn't like other than the argument itself. You didn't have the strength of your convictions, another irony given the thread's chivalrous origins.
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MattP
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quote:
But it would reframe the community a bit.
Not really. I think people generally forget it's an option until someone abuses it. It happens every couple years or so.
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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
quote:
But it would reframe the community a bit.
Not really. I think people generally forget it's an option until someone abuses it. It happens every couple years or so.
Maybe more people should remember it.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
People might show a little bit of respect for others, instead of thinking that there are no consequences to their actions online.

Holy mary mother of profound facepunching-strength irony


no i mean


like


are you reading this, aros. i mean i know you typed it but are you reading it

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Aros
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I know, Sam. I got a good laugh out of it. My only intention from the get go was to prove this point.

I certainly showed disrespect to people by deleting the post. But trolls had already disrespected me and a lot of other people by hijacking the thread (in my opinion). As the board stands, I was within my rights. And our discussion still happened -- only the record of it was deleted.

Maybe I shouldn't have had the right to delete a thread I created. Maybe we need to change that. But as it stands, it's the only defense any of us has against hijackers.

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MattP
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If no one is complaining about the trolls but you then maybe that should give you pause about your ability to recognize one.
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Rakeesh
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I don't believe for a moment you actually believe anyone was trolling. You saw a chance to eliminate discussion you didn't like, and took it. Such an action is entirely in keeping with your thoughts on the force 'manners' ought to have in directly controlling behavior.

Though more credit to you-this is a nice retroactive spin campaign you're waging. It *almost* stops one from wondering why you didn't have faith in you skill in words to speak up for themselves when people could actually...oh, wait, right. Censor. People shouldn't be permitted to make up their own minds-not if you have anything to say about it.

And again, as for the ability conferring the right...I do so hope you complain in the near future about something someone has done to you that was wrong.

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rivka
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Oh, goodie. We haven't had a tar-and-feather-all-thread-deleters thread in positively AGES!

And now we have two. [Razz]

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kmbboots
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We haven't had someone selfish enough to delete a thread like that in ages either.
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Aros
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Rakeesh,

I'm glad that you're so adept at picking out what -- exactly -- I believe, and when I am lying. I certainly couldn't do it myself. Can you follow me around all day and do it on a professional basis? I'll pay you. Because I'm certainly at a loss to assess myself.

But please don't call me a censor again. I think I'm about to cry.

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We haven't had someone selfish enough to delete a thread like that in ages either.

Untrue. I delete threads all the time. Just not usually while Rakeesh is moaning. [Roll Eyes]
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kmbboots
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I stand corrected. Anyone else that selfish.
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Rakeesh
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The words aren't just for you, Aros. They're for anyone else who might wish to read them..:until you decide they're too mean and you just can't take them anymore.

But do please go on and tell us more about how very above it all you are. If you were, you wouldn't be here. One doesn't need to read your mind to see a lie when you make it so painfully obvious even in print.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We haven't had someone selfish enough to delete a thread like that in ages either.

I haven't started any threads here in ages, so I guess so.
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theamazeeaz
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If there's a problem with thread, it can be locked. That's fine with me, and it used to happen a lot more, usually because of Lisa, but then I knew which threads I wanted to read.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm confused, are you defending Aros, rivka?
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SteveRogers
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[post amended of my own volition]
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Aros
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I'm not even defending my own behavior. It was very rude of me. I admit that. I deleted a bunch of threads -- I'm sure many people's post counts have decreased by quite a bit.

I'm only defending my right to do it. And hoping that it will deter some people from hijacking respectable threads. Of which, I have created quite a few.

And if I don't have the right to do it, let's get the software changed.

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MattP
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Post counts aren't affected by deleted threads.

And given that hijacking is a subjective evaluation (you call it "hijacking" when you don't like it, "thread drift" when you like it or don't care) the only real takeaway here is that Aros is someone who will delete a thread when they become unhappy with it so either archive it regularly if you care about it or don't participate in the first place - whether you think your posts will be considered trolling or not.

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
Post counts aren't affected by deleted threads.

And given that hijacking is a subjective evaluation (you call it "hijacking" when you don't like it, "thread drift" when you like it or don't care) the only real takeaway here is that Aros is someone who will delete a thread when they become unhappy with it so either archive it regularly if you care about it or don't participate in the first place - whether you think your posts will be considered trolling or not.

I just deleted a few more to verify. And then a few more just to double check. And you're right. They disappear from your history, but your post count remains the same.

There are three takeaways -- not just one:
- Aros will indiscriminately delete his threads if you repeatedly ignore his requests to keep them family friendly.
- Aros will make sure that everyone remembers they can delete their threads.
- Anyone can delete their threads. So please treat others with courtesy. Because who knows? Aros might have an alt someday.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I'm confused, are you defending Aros, rivka?

I feel the same about thread deletion as I always have. Not hugely in favor of it, but I find the lynching of thread deleters many orders of magnitude worse.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I'm confused, are you defending Aros, rivka?

I feel the same about thread deletion as I always have. Not hugely in favor of it, but I find the lynching of thread deleters many orders of magnitude worse.
In general I think you're right, but the behavior in this specific instance is pretty baffling... e.g. indiscriminate deletion of lots of other threads that had nothing to do with this issue, and the assertion that we shouldn't have such a power coupled with overuse of said power.

I just don't get it.

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Samprimary
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quote:
- Aros will indiscriminately delete his threads if you repeatedly ignore his requests to keep them family friendly.
by indiscriminately deleting his threads Aros will definitely not disincentivize people from investing any sort of serious commentary or energy into his threads knowing that the actions of anyone else and/or aros' mood and subjective interpretation of other people's fulfillment of his demands of a thread could lead to it all be wasted for no good reason, and he has definitely taught people to be courteous by leading from example and totally not being petulant

this we know, because woop woop hurr de doop de la toodley hoo

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MattP
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quote:
There are three takeaways -- not just one:
No, those are what you'd like the takeaway to be.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_:
I'm confused, are you defending Aros, rivka?

I feel the same about thread deletion as I always have. Not hugely in favor of it, but I find the lynching of thread deleters many orders of magnitude worse.
maybe it would help if in this instance he hadn't deleted the thread for the reasons he did or with the attitude he has

in short, this lynching is not categorical response for the act of thread deletion, it's a response to what aros did, why he did it, and how he's acting about it ex post facto now that a lot of people's time and effort just got vaporized by a person who is saying he did it to Teach Us A Lesson and gave no more thought to it than putting on a shirt in the morning

sooooooooooo

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
- Aros will indiscriminately delete his threads if you repeatedly ignore his requests to keep them family friendly.
by indiscriminately deleting his threads Aros will definitely not disincentivize people from investing any sort of serious commentary or energy into his threads knowing that the actions of anyone else and/or aros' mood and subjective interpretation of other people's fulfillment of his demands of a thread could lead to it all be wasted for no good reason, and he has definitely taught people to be courteous by leading from example and totally not being petulant
Dude, I've been here, in one form or another, since the beginning. We get crashers all of the time, full of their self-importance, who fail to show respect for the community. Do I care about my reputation? I'm always on the unpopular end of the discussion. And if I have to do something stupid to discourage some of these yahoos, so be it. I care about this community.

If I've burned this login but discouraged one geek from putting other people down, or hijacking someone's thread into gray territory (when it comes to the TOC), it'll be worth it. In the long run.

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Kwea
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quote:
Originally posted by Aros:
quote:
Originally posted by MattP:
Post counts aren't affected by deleted threads.

And given that hijacking is a subjective evaluation (you call it "hijacking" when you don't like it, "thread drift" when you like it or don't care) the only real takeaway here is that Aros is someone who will delete a thread when they become unhappy with it so either archive it regularly if you care about it or don't participate in the first place - whether you think your posts will be considered trolling or not.

I just deleted a few more to verify. And then a few more just to double check. And you're right. They disappear from your history, but your post count remains the same.

There are three takeaways -- not just one:
- Aros will indiscriminately delete his threads if you repeatedly ignore his requests to keep them family friendly.
- Aros will make sure that everyone remembers they can delete their threads.
- Anyone can delete their threads. So please treat others with courtesy. Because who knows? Aros might have an alt someday.

So, you ADMIT it was rude and and upsetting, then DO IT SOME MORE to check if POST COUNTS are affected? At this point I don't know why anyone would bother to engage you in any conversation at all.
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Boris
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I'm going to drop in and mention that I really don't care if he deleted his thread. Mostly because...well...I just don't care.
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Aros
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But what was the end product of the lynching, Sam? I'll take a step out of my "Aros" persona for a moment.

Someone that posts a lot of threads gets mobbed by the community. What's the reaction? In the heat of the moment, literally thousands of posts can be deleted. And it's legal and legit. It's a crummy thing to do, granted, but people are people. They just create a new handle when they calm down. No big deal for them. But you've lost a hundred posts.

Lynching someone for one post can cause ten to disappear . . . even if you don't notice it right away. Aros is used to the dogpile. But if you can't stand the heat, either get out of the kitchen . . . or change the software options.

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
So, you ADMIT it was rude and and upsetting, then DO IT SOME MORE to check if POST COUNTS are affected? At this point I don't know why anyone would bother to engage you in any conversation at all.

I don't know. Why don't you tell me?
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scifibum
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I didn't intend for the question to the moderator to get lost in the argument, which is why I started a separate thread. Which I'm now tempted to delete. [Razz]
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
this lynching is not categorical response for the act of thread deletion

Yeah, that's why before he said anything it was calm and measured. And why all threads started in response to thread deletion are similarly calm.
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Samprimary
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quote:
I'll take a step out of my "Aros" persona for a moment.
what.

'persona'

so like, we're engaging with a playtime pretend person, or

well at least thanks for allowing us to have an Out Of Character moment with the non-roleplaying human being behind the mask, shame on me for assuming that was what was going on in the first place

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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
this lynching is not categorical response for the act of thread deletion

Yeah, that's why before he said anything it was calm and measured. And why all threads started in response to thread deletion are similarly calm.
A conversation people were invested in just got spontaneously deleted by one person because he was looking to teach everyone else a lesson (oh and now i guess he's acting it out as a "persona" wtf.) If you don't think people are going to be upset about that...
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JanitorBlade
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I started my first day at work today, so I didn't show this board as much love as I should have. I should be able to better monitor it in the future.

In any case, no I do not have the tools to make it impossible for people to delete their own threads. Were I able to, I am not sure I would. I have had posters say they want to delete old threads they have created because they said things that were biting them in the butt later.

I'm open to view points about whether we should or should not take that ability away. I will talk to the Webmaster if I conclude we should remove that option.

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Rakeesh
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I would think that in the event of a controversy, a potential compromise could be on allowing deletion of a thread that hadn't been posted in for x days or weeks, but not for an ongoing discussion and definitely not if it's clear to the deciding authority it's an ongoing discussion that isn't being trolled that the author simply disapproves of.
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Stone_Wolf_
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I'm against deletion of nearly any (non mayfly) threads. If a post needs to be deleted, or if the thread needs to be locked, fine, but in general...I'm agn' it.
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Samprimary
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it has never been worth the trouble. it's not like you can't petition a mod with a legitimate grievance/need to delete a thread, especially if it's been off the front page for a while

Between when katharina had her moment in the sun as a petulant thread-deleter, various other incidents, and now where aros vanished active discussions and is essentially making threats to make and delete threads as future alts to teach us what-for and keep us in line?

Just put it to a community vote

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
I would think that in the event of a controversy, a potential compromise could be on allowing deletion of a thread that hadn't been posted in for x days or weeks, but not for an ongoing discussion and definitely not if it's clear to the deciding authority it's an ongoing discussion that isn't being trolled that the author simply disapproves of.

I nominate Rakeesh to write the code.
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Tittles
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Come on, Aros.

No one likes a troll.

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Aros
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quote:
Originally posted by Tittles:
Come on, Aros.

No one likes a troll.

If you hadn't spoiled WOT for me under your banned alt, I would have probably laughed at this. Okay, I did laugh. A little.
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