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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » OSC writing Superman (Page 1)

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Author Topic: OSC writing Superman
Jeff C.
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/06/introducing-the-all-new-adventures-of-superman

Okay...did anyone else know about this? This is the first I've heard of it. I'd have thought OSC would post something regarding it, but I guess not.

Here's a quote from the source, for those too lazy to click the link:

quote:
Since last year, DC Comics has been publishing a weekly continuity-free series of Batman tales via the DC Comics app, called Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight. Featuring A-list comic book creators, the goal is to create an anthology-style collection of Batman stories that are accessible to anyone. With the release of Man of Steel impending, DC is finally giving Superman the same treatment.

Debuting on April 29, the first digital chapter of Adventures of Superman will feature a story by Orson Scott Card and Aaron Johnston with art by the wonderful Chris Sprouse and Karl Story on inks -- a team that will continue onto the second chapter a week later. The third chapter will be by Jeff Parker and Chris Samnee; this one tells the tale of Superman's first encounter with the menace of arch enemy Lex Luthor.

Adventures of Superman will be getting print collections similar to DC's other digital-first series, collecting the digital chapters in groups of three. The first print issue will feature a regular cover by Bryan Hitch and an utterly gorgeous variant by Chris Samnee and colorist Matthew Wilson, which you can see below.


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Stone_Wolf_
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Thanks for posting this (especially the quote, as I -am- too lazy to click)...I had no idea!
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BlackBlade
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I will probably check that out, I think Mr. Card has a good grasp of what makes Superman work.
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AchillesHeel
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His take on Iron Man was certainly refreshing, maybe he can find a new angle to play the boy scout.

In case you didn't know about his re-telling of Iron Man.

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TomDavidson
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From the moment he crashlanded in his little pod, baby Kal-El was analyzing everything. When the two aliens approached, he quickly ascertained that their biologies were compatible, but that he'd need to demonstrate his usefulness in order to be accepted among them. So an accident was arranged.
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Stephan
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I love well written continuity free comics. I will be looking forward to it.
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AchillesHeel
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephan:
I love well written continuity free comics. I will be looking forward to it.

Have you read Brian Azzarello's Joker?

The art is lusciously gruesome and defined, the story is very far out of the norm for Batman books. Of my self-contained graphic novels collection it falls just behind The Dark Knight Returns.

The same team made a book called Luthor but I have some polarizing opinions about the artists... choices in detailing. The story is top notch though, lets you get inside of Lex Luthor's head and possibly why he needs (not wants) to destroy Supes.

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advice for robots
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
From the moment he crashlanded in his little pod, baby Kal-El was analyzing everything. When the two aliens approached, he quickly ascertained that their biologies were compatible, but that he'd need to demonstrate his usefulness in order to be accepted among them. So an accident was arranged.

LOL
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Ron Lambert
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So many authors are going in for "graphic novels" these days! (That's a classy way of saying comic books.)
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AchillesHeel
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I am a comic book nerd, in case you need some help with the average lingo here you go.

Comic: single issue.
Arc: typically six issue story-line within an ongoing monthly title.
Trade Paper Back: a collected arc printed in one bound book, without advertisements and perhaps some extras from the writer and or artists in the back. While uncommon some do warrant a hard cover.
Graphic Novel: a longer self contained story typically printed in its complete form only, but some are released in three to four issues prior to the trade paper back version.

When I say graphic novel, I'm not trying to be fancy or lessen the shame some might think I should feel for reading what they never have but consider to be for children.

If you think "authors" are only recently writing classy comic books you don't seem to have payed attention to comics for a long long time. Why even famous author of real books, Niel Gaiman found much of his early success in writing for Batman and Sandman, he even created a classy comic book called Books of Magic that most of his fans believe to be the original Harry Potter.

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kacard
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Thanks Jeff, for beating us to the punch [Smile] It's on the home page now. I appreciate the nudge.
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Foust
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I wonder if this version of Superman will feature benevolant white people going out of their way to not kill brown people.

(Like his Iron Man story did)

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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
So many authors are going in for "graphic novels" these days! (That's a classy way of saying comic books.)

Which we over in our corner over here simply like to call "quaint backwards manga".

A lot of people I talk to who are heavily into comics seem to regularly dislike OSC's Ironman though, any ideas as to why? As I haven't read it and make it a regular habit to buy OSC's works (Or get Tom to buy it for me [Wink] ).

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TomDavidson
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The OSC take on Ultimate Iron Man came at the character from a few angles that I think got away from the core appeal of the character. If you contrast OSC's Iron Man (in the Ultimate universe) with Matt Fraction's take on the non-Ultimate version (which I consider to be the definitive modern Iron Man), you'll see some enormous tonal differences.
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Stephan
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Didn't OSC make comments in the past that sounded like he looks down on authors that write Star Trek and Star Wars type novels? I am curious how writing for Iron Man or Superman is different.
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AchillesHeel
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quote:
A lot of people I talk to who are heavily into comics seem to regularly dislike OSC's Ironman though, any ideas as to why? As I haven't read it and make it a regular habit to buy OSC's works (Or get Tom to buy it for me [Wink] ).
-Tony and his core group are kids.
-Tony has some kinda immune system deficiency and has a protective layer on him that while he really young is bright blue. It snowballs into the whole Iron Man suit stuff too, instead of Tony using the power core to protect his heart.
-Tony's dad is alive and not a douche (as I remember it right now, it's been a while.)
-Rhody is a pint-size brainiac as well, not a soldier. He even has quite a bit to do with the development of the original armor.
-There were some attempts at humor that wouldn't fit well in casual Iron Man books but made sense in OSC's young cast, I understand why an Iron Man fan wouldn't care for it in comparison to what they usually read.

I bought and read both volumes and have since given them away along with a bunch of books. I liked them enough to suggest that any OSC or Iron Man fans might want to check it out but I think the whole thing suffered from the setting. Tony Stark as the character who has evolved several times over after all these years does not lend well to a precocious, blue, ten year old boy.

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Ginol_Enam
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It (Ultimate Iron Man) was also removed from continuity, from what I understand. OSC's story is now just a "fictional" TV show within the Ultimate universe, or something.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to this Superman series.

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Ron Lambert
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I just hope OSC does not mess up the Superman mythos. You can have your psychopathic Batman, and all the other Super dupes. But leave Superman alone!
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umberhulk
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Batman isn't a psycopath, and he's actually the guy who shuts superman down when he becomes one.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by kacard:
Thanks Jeff, for beating us to the punch [Smile] It's on the home page now. I appreciate the nudge.

Glad I could help [Wink]

Anyway, this may be the first time I pick up a Superman book since I read Red Son, which is still my personal favorite. Here's hoping OSC can put an interesting spin on the character.

Speaking of new spins, I'm thrilled with the direction the new film is taking. Focusing on the reaction of the world to Superman's existence seems like an interesting approach for a reboot. Very exciting year for Superman.

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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:

Anyway, this may be the first time I pick up a Superman book since I read Red Son, which is still my personal favorite.

I hope you've read the other Supes-greats; All-Star, Kingdom Come, WHttMoT, Secret Identity.

OT: Apprehensive about this, I guess there's a possibility of this being good.

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Jeff C.
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I've read All-Star and WHttMoT, which were both great. Still, Red Son just resonated with me and made me think, which is something that very few comics have managed to do. Are the other two good? What are they about?
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T:man
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Kingdom Come is Alex Ross' backlash against the dark age of comics. A retired Superman comes back to a world where all the traditional heroes have left, and only their anti-hero grandchildren are around.

Secret Identity is an amazing take on a "real life" Superman. Clark Kent, a young boy from a small town in Kansas finds out he has super powers. (After being mercilessly teased all his life for having that famous name) It doesn't tackle any real tough ideas, like Red Son, All-Star, etc, all it does is give us a realistic portrayal of who could be Supes. Not to mention one of the sweetest love stories in the medium, and IMO the most well done.

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Anthonie
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And here it comes: even with Superman we see the inevitable backlash OSC tends to stir up.
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capaxinfiniti
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthonie:
And here it comes: even with Superman we see the inevitable backlash OSC tends to stir up.

My favorite parts:

"It's a deeply disappointing and frankly weird choice." - Obscure web person.

"Card is an embarrassment to your company, DC." - Obscure and unsuccessful actor.

It's weird and embarrassing that DC chose a skilled, successful, and prominent writer to author their next comic book? If Mr. Card was an anti-Mormon instead of an active-Mormon this wouldn't even be news.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephan:
Didn't OSC make comments in the past that sounded like he looks down on authors that write Star Trek and Star Wars type novels? I am curious how writing for Iron Man or Superman is different.

Well, first I suppose there is the fact that comics and graphic novels are born into the world in that same form. They are devised as vehicles for multiple writers and artists, and are a franchise based on variation. Whereas ST and SW novels are, by and large and with some exceptions, trashy paperbacks that are breathlessly dashed off by mediocre, although rarely frankly bad, writers. I've heard SW books can be better, but ST books are usually not fine examples of literature (though I enjoyed them as a kid).

Then there is just the motivation behind it all. OSC has said that he sees frighting in a TV or movie universe as being boring and unimaginative. It banks hard on fan loyalty to the "real" product. Whereas comics are not "spin-off" creations of a more popular vehicle. They *are* the medium. There's a difference.

Plus, as OSC has gotten older, frankly, his standards (or perhaps pretentions) have dropped. Just my opinion, but he now does a number of things he probably would not have done a decade ago, including spin-off collaborations and licensing his name. He's not in Tom Clancy territory in terms of whoring his brand, but he's not on firmer ground than he was 15 years ago.

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umberhulk
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There's no meaningful difference. On a creative level you're still using someone else's work as a crutch and you take advantage of its popularity to get readers. I'm not trying to trash it, but thats the only likeness that matters.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
]My favorite parts:

"It's a deeply disappointing and frankly weird choice." - Obscure web person.

"Card is an embarrassment to your company, DC." - Obscure and unsuccessful actor.

- A post by an even more obscure and unnoteworthy person

see we can all do it

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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthonie:
And here it comes: even with Superman we see the inevitable backlash OSC tends to stir up.

OSC didn't stir them up.

They chose to stir themselves up because they don't like him. They are responsible for their actions.

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Shanna
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephan:
Didn't OSC make comments in the past that sounded like he looks down on authors that write Star Trek and Star Wars type novels? I am curious how writing for Iron Man or Superman is different.

Well, first I suppose there is the fact that comics and graphic novels are born into the world in that same form. They are devised as vehicles for multiple writers and artists, and are a franchise based on variation. Whereas ST and SW novels are, by and large and with some exceptions, trashy paperbacks that are breathlessly dashed off by mediocre, although rarely frankly bad, writers. I've heard SW books can be better, but ST books are usually not fine examples of literature (though I enjoyed them as a kid).

Then there is just the motivation behind it all. OSC has said that he sees frighting in a TV or movie universe as being boring and unimaginative. It banks hard on fan loyalty to the "real" product. Whereas comics are not "spin-off" creations of a more popular vehicle. They *are* the medium. There's a difference.

Plus, as OSC has gotten older, frankly, his standards (or perhaps pretentions) have dropped. Just my opinion, but he now does a number of things he probably would not have done a decade ago, including spin-off collaborations and licensing his name. He's not in Tom Clancy territory in terms of whoring his brand, but he's not on firmer ground than he was 15 years ago.

I'm guessing that Stephan is actually referring to these comments that OSC made when he was asked about fanficiton.

"You will never do your best work in someone else's universe, because you're bound by their rules. Furthermore, most universes that people use for fan fiction are dreadfully dumb - one thinks of Star Trek and Star Wars - and most seventh-graders can come up with better ones."

Basically, its an angry rant about what some people choose to do in their free time as a non-profitable hobby.

He does point out that authors shouldn't "waste their time" writing in another author's universe without "specific invitation." And he seems to be trying to guard people away from trying to grow their careers through fanfiction (entirely missing the point of it being either a hobby or a writing exercise.) Obviously at this point in his life, Card has already established his career as a financially successful writer. He doesn't see his own actions as "piggy-backing" because obviously he doesn't NEED Superman to be considered successful.

I wonder what he would think of comic book authors who work in established universes before trying to create their own characters or series?

And personally, it kind of bugs me that he would view Superman as different from Ender because the former is owned by a corporation. I wonder if he thinks that he loves Ender more than Jerry Siegel loved Superman.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:
Originally posted by Anthonie:
And here it comes: even with Superman we see the inevitable backlash OSC tends to stir up.

OSC didn't stir them up.

They chose to stir themselves up because they don't like him. They are responsible for their actions.

The funny thing about this post is, it's just oblique enough to be serious, but also just dry enough to be extremely witty. I can't tell which.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by umberhulk:
There's no meaningful difference. On a creative level you're still using someone else's work as a crutch and you take advantage of its popularity to get readers. I'm not trying to trash it, but thats the only likeness that matters.

There is a meaningful difference. One is a novel, one isn't. Tell me that difference has no meaning. Go on, tell me that.
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Chris Bridges
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Didn't we have this discussion when OSC wrote a story for a Foundation anthology?
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umberhulk
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by umberhulk:
There's no meaningful difference. On a creative level you're still using someone else's work as a crutch and you take advantage of its popularity to get readers. I'm not trying to trash it, but thats the only likeness that matters.

There is a meaningful difference. One is a novel, one isn't. Tell me that difference has no meaning. Go on, tell me that.
That difference has no meaning. I'm telling you. The only good reason to criticize it (if it's good) is the base lack originality and inventiveness.

[ February 12, 2013, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: umberhulk ]

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Blayne Bradley
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I think if toned down a notch it could be interpreted as "If you want to write, than write, and focus your time inventing your own story and universe. Fanfiction will most of the time likely be a tragic waste." So he's not entirely off base, and I'm someone who generally agrees with the notion that fanfiction is good practice.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
Didn't we have this discussion when OSC wrote a story for a Foundation anthology?

Yeah.

OSC himself has also basically said, of that, "I always try to break my own writing rules sooner or later, because I don't think they're without exception. So, I came out vocally against fanfic, which meant sooner or later I had to try some fanfic."

That's a massive paraphrase but I think it captures the sentiment okay. It was, if I recall correctly, a comment in one of his short story anthologies.

Although I also agree with Orincoro that I get the impression OSC has also become even less pretentious than in his younger days. Which is saying something, I think.

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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by umberhulk:
There's no meaningful difference. On a creative level you're still using someone else's work as a crutch and you take advantage of its popularity to get readers. I'm not trying to trash it, but thats the only likeness that matters.

There is a meaningful difference. One is a novel, one isn't. Tell me that difference has no meaning. Go on, tell me that.
I'm not sure I understand the difference, can you explain?
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umberhulk
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I think fanfic spawns out of wanting more of a story. It's not evil. It's not inherently disrespectful, in any circumstance. It's not on par with having to go to the bottom of mount everest from starting from scratch either, and OSC can say that. Don't get me wrong.

But no type of fanfic is ever an exception to that rule.

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Darth_Mauve
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Fanfic is a person writing in another's universe, knowing full well that such view will never be that universe.

What OSC is doing is becoming the Superman universe.

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umberhulk
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(is this even going to be considered canon?)
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Darth_Mauve
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This is Wrong. Just Wrong.
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Jeff C.
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Wow, that's crazy. I may not agree with OSC's views on a few things, but it's not fair to make such an uproar about something they haven't even read yet.
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Stephan
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth_Mauve:
Fanfic is a person writing in another's universe, knowing full well that such view will never be that universe.

What OSC is doing is becoming the Superman universe.

It is not canon. This and the Batman one are standalone stories outside of regular continuity.

In other words, fan fiction.

I have no problem with it. I will probably buy them. I much prefer standalone superhero tales, rather than ones where I feel like I have to buy a million other stories to understand what is going on. DC doesn't even open with a paragraph about what has been happening like in Marvel.

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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Wow, that's crazy. I may not agree with OSC's views on a few things, but it's not fair to make such an uproar about something they haven't even read yet.

They are making an uproar that dc is hiring someone with views and involvement in political efforts at discrimination that they consider so offensive that they don't want dc to involve themselves with him.

Thus is totally understandable? He's a director at NOM, right?

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capaxinfiniti
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
A post by an even more obscure and unnoteworthy person

see we can all do it

No. Fail. Try again. I used what I said to illustrate a fair criticism of the news story. You just did it as a personal shot at me. That's your typical MO but it's even more bizarre in light of your recent behavior.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
]My favorite parts:

"It's a deeply disappointing and frankly weird choice." - Obscure web person.

"Card is an embarrassment to your company, DC." - Obscure and unsuccessful actor.

- A post by an even more obscure and unnoteworthy person

see we can all do it

If capax had been quoted in a news article I'd agree with your characterization. Since he wasn't, it does fall a little flat.
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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth_Mauve:
This is Wrong. Just Wrong.

*L* Reminds me of our resident "if you approve gay marriage, the angels will stand down and allow meteors to strike the Earth" poster [Smile]
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Victor Medina
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I started an online petition supporting OSC. Please add your name and tell others about it! BleedingCool.com mentioned it, and criticized it, saying it asked for a PayPal donation. I don't know where that came from. There's no donation requirement, and I'm certainly not asking for any money, only your signature!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/we-support-orson-scott-cards-superman-comic/

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
]No. Fail. Try again. I used what I said to illustrate a fair criticism of the news story. You just did it as a personal shot at me. That's your typical MO but it's even more bizarre in light of your recent behavior.

If I want to take a personal shot at you, I got way better material. your judgment of their success and/or prominence re: comic book circles is off, and either way is a nice distraction from the meat of their criticisms or why they're talking about this in the first place.
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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor Medina:
I started an online petition supporting OSC. Please add your name and tell others about it! BleedingCool.com mentioned it, and criticized it, saying it asked for a PayPal donation. I don't know where that came from. There's no donation requirement, and I'm certainly not asking for any money, only your signature!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/we-support-orson-scott-cards-superman-comic/

It came from the service you're using, iPetitions. After submitting a signature it routes to a page that asks for a donation and has options starting at $2.

If someone didn't read it closely, it looks like you have to donate before finalizing your signature.

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