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Author Topic: Help with depression
RivalOfTheRose
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I believe my wife is depressed. Obviously at the core are the personal details, but I am not comfortable sharing too much, plus I could go on for hours. Let me divulge a bit of our current living situation (sorry I didn't really proofread; this is almost stream-of-conscious).

The generic summary is that we have been married over 5 years, with a one year old. We both have to work to make ends meet, but she hates her job. We would both very much rather her stay home with our son, financially we would lose money each year between bills and the mortgage, and daily living expenses. I know we can cut back a little bit in some areas, but not enough to make a substantial difference. We are rather frugal as it is, and this would not really generate a useful discussion. This would be a long-term issue, as in we can get by for several years off savings, but eventually they would run out. We would have to think of big purchases, like car maintenance, home repair, college, weddings, and so on.

Regarding her job, the way it is currently structured is that she works 9-3, and then logs on at home from about 9:30 to 11:30. The commute between home and work is about 45 minutes either way, so it is almost like she is gone from 8 to 4, in addition to the hours at night. Between taking care of our son, and basic house chores, she has no time for herself, or to relax. She can't find to exercise, look for another job, pay bills, do laundry, and whatever else. I help out when I can, but I am currently working a full-time job and another one one several nights a week. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I find that between my jobs, yardwork, other housework, sharing parenting responsibilities, it's hard to help her out too... but I wish I could do it all.

An issue exists that although she hates her job, the job market of her expertise is bare in our current area. Moving might help, but that would mean both of us finding new jobs. I won't get into the reasons why she hates, but it should be known that she does. I've made the empty threat to call her boss and quit for her, but it was mostly said out of frustration. i don't want to make her do anything she doesn't want to.

Another point, she doesn't feel competent enough to raise our son by herself, thinking that she won't be able to teach him what he needs and give him enough social stimulation until he goes to pre-school/kindergarten. I find this to be impossible, knowing her love, care, and dedication she displays towards our son.

All of this leads to the following: She is not happy at work, and she is not happy at home. She doesn't have her own time to decompress at all, always in a constant state of worry and stress. I guess the simple options to rectify the situation are the following:

1. Get better coping skills to deal with the current situation (lame choice... pretty much telling her to deal with it).

2. Improve her job status (no time to find a new one, lack of other job options, no way to change the current one.)

3. Quit and be a full-time mom (hopefully the most rewarding, but would leave us financially in the red.)

My preference is option 3. I can try and work more, but then I would decrease my already limited family time. I would willingly do this in a heartbeat if I know it would make her happy, but I know she would want me around for her and our son. I know that we would be losing money, but perhaps she could find another job once our son gets older. Another crazy tangent is that we want to have another child in the near future, but we are having a terrible time trying to deal with our current situation. I know money can't but happiness, but there is something to be said about providing a stable financial future for our family. She is completely indecisive as to what she would want to do. I just know that by continuing to live the same life, we are going to breakdown.

These factors have been on our minds for several months, completely weighing us down, especially my wife. Our marriage is suffering because of our inability to solve these options. There have been countless arguments and discussions on what we/me/she can do to positively change our lives for the better. It pains me to see her constantly unhappy. I mean there are flashes of happiness, but they are severely outnumbered by the amount of time she is generally miserable. I should note however, that for the four months she was home with him after he was born, she was much, much happier. She was collecting disability during this time, which definitely helped out financially.

We've had several brief discussions about her mental health. I know that constantly being in a state of mental distress eventually cause physical effects. I am at a loss as to what options we have, hence why I am here out of desperation.

We've trying talking it out countless times, and it always devolves into the same conversations. We could go see a life coach, but seems like it would be a waste of money and fraud-like. Going to see a licensed therapist would be an option for me, but she strongly opposes it. I might be able to see the value of a talking session, but we are both vehemently opposed to any form of medication. Sometimes I think maybe we just need marriage counseling. She hasn't been receptive to any outside professional opinions.

The bottom line is, we need help. I don't know how to help ourselves, and but she doesn't see how an outsider can help either. She struggles with the fact that these problems seem normal to many people our age, and they deal just fine. I don't really know what depression looks like, but I fear for my wife. All of this often takes its toll on me too, almost making me numb to the world at times, but I feel like I rebound much easier than her. Being miserable seems to be her baseline.

To put things in context, I let her read this post before I post it. Since this obviously concerns her, I let her know for the purpose of full disclosure. If you are reading this, that means she is ok with it. We need help, and would greatly appreciate any thoughts, sincerely.

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TomDavidson
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How much extra money do you need? Could she do fast food or something on weekend or evenings?
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Dogbreath
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If you have enough money saved to go a few years with her not working, can she quit her job and spend a couple months relaxing and then a few more applying for a different one? How dependent are you on her income there? I.e, could you afford to have her work a job that pays 25% or 50% less, but is less stressful?
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Wingracer
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Man, with the work load you two are having to put in, I think I would be stressed to the max too.

You say you would be able to make it a couple years on just your income. Would it not be possible for her to quit, thus giving her the time she needs to find a better job? Or as Tom said, something just part time to help make ends meet while still having time for the family.

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Wingracer
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Man, dog posted while I was typing, now I sound like an echo.
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RivalOfTheRose
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Well, thank you for the quick responses. I pretty much agree with all of you. Another issue (as if their aren't enough) is that she deeply values the opinion of her parents, which is good and bad. They are the nose to the grind, no nonsense kind of people, and would not think it responsible at all to my wife quitting, even temporarily. That is another thing that weighs her down, is other peoples' opinions. I believe that would be a great option, but she is scared to change, albeit with good reason.

From a simplistic point of view, I at the point where any change is good, compared to what it currently is. In the long term, that may not be the smartest decision, but it seems mad to continue doing the same thing. Thank you again.

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ctm
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Regarding your wife's feelings of inadequacy as a mother: does this stem from not being able to be home with him? Or does she just feel inadequate in general? If it's the former, quitting her job will help, but if it is the latter, being home all day with your son may exacerbate that feeling, especially if you don't have a good support system.

Just something to consider.

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SenojRetep
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I'm sorry you and your wife are struggling.

One option you didn't list is you quitting your evening job. If this decreases your family income by less than your wife quitting her job, but alleviates some of her stresses, then it seems like a feasible alternative to (1)-(3) above. If that's the case, then taking the recommendation of Dogbreath and Wingracer and applying it to your evening job might make sense (i.e. quit the part-time job, see if it helps. If it works, great; if not, find a new part-time job, and you're probably not much worse off financially than you were before and you've narrowed the set of potential solutions).

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scifibum
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My advice would be to press harder for marriage counseling. Set an appointment and ask her to come along. I think you need help figuring out what will help.

I also think you should reevaluate your aversion to medication. Depression sounds kind of likely here (feeling hopeless, like there's no solution to any of the problems), and the right kind of medicine could make a huge positive difference. She'd need to talk to a doctor about it, of course, but there's no good reason to rule it out.

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Samprimary
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quote:
The bottom line is, we need help. I don't know how to help ourselves, and but she doesn't see how an outsider can help either. She struggles with the fact that these problems seem normal to many people our age, and they deal just fine. I don't really know what depression looks like, but I fear for my wife. All of this often takes its toll on me too, almost making me numb to the world at times, but I feel like I rebound much easier than her. Being miserable seems to be her baseline.
You need to find a way to ask around locally for mental health support options for people in your financial and time constraints. You should have a PCP and to ask them about options you have for consult on the issue of depression.
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Amka
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The depression is situational, probably, unless you've seen the tendency before. Her thinking she can't be a good mother is part of the depression. It isn't true.

Medication can be very helpful, and for some it's a godsend. They're depressed no matter the situation. However, it won't solve the underlying reasons why she is depressed. It will take several weeks to kick in. And sometimes, it takes a while to find the right medication, which can get very stressful and make one worse off until the right one is found.

Your marriage is struggling, think about it this way. It's you against the world. Sometimes, the heroes have to slog through the depressing swamp for a while before they can do anything.

There was a study that compared people who were financially struggling. Those who got divorced because of it tended to still be struggling and not be happy. Those who stuck together tended to have overcome it and were happier.

You may find an employment agency that could help. You talked about her job skills being narrow. Are yours? Could you find a better paying job? I think quitting the part time job to help you both find a better job is a viable option.

Are you renting or do you own your home? I know I'm going somewhere you didn't ask, but is there any way you could decrease your rent/house payment?

If she stops working, would you qualify for food stamps? This could allow you to change jobs - finding better employment for yourself so she doesn't have to work as much and you don't need a part time job. Once upon a time, my husband and I were on food stamps. It got us through a rough spot. Think of it this way: you've been paying a lot of taxes to support the foodstamp program. Now you're using the program a bit to help you. And you'll pay it back in spades when you're on your feet again.

And here is something - surprise her with a treat that she likes every once in a while. Praise her for all the hard work she's doing. Tell her you love her every day. Let her cry while you hug her, and don't try to fix it at that moment.

Do you have a lot of friends that can support you? Is there someone that could help you with resume's, finding a job, etc?

I hope that's helpful.

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theamazeeaz
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quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:
We would both very much rather her stay home with our son, financially we would lose money each year between bills and the mortgage, and daily living expenses. I know we can cut back a little bit in some areas, but not enough to make a substantial difference. We are rather frugal as it is, and this would not really generate a useful discussion. This would be a long-term issue, as in we can get by for several years off savings, but eventually they would run out. We would have to think of big purchases, like car maintenance, home repair, college, weddings, and so on.

You say that you are already as frugal as can be, but someone whose full time job it is to run the family, but also has the energy to be exceptionally organized when it comes to buying things for the family/children that they can get nearly all of it used, and stock up on non-convenience foods can make up quite a bit of the missing income.

quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:
I help out when I can, but I am currently working a full-time job and another one one several nights a week. I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I find that between my jobs, yardwork, other housework, sharing parenting responsibilities, it's hard to help her out too... but I wish I could do it all.

What percentage of your income comes from 1. Her job. 2. Your full time job. 3. Your second job?
Could you help if you quit your second job and helped around the house?

quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:

Another point, she doesn't feel competent enough to raise our son by herself, thinking that she won't be able to teach him what he needs and give him enough social stimulation until he goes to pre-school/kindergarten. I find this to be impossible, knowing her love, care, and dedication she displays towards our son.

That's a really weird thing to think, that you are incapable of teaching a 1-4 year old enough to make in through preschool. Social stimulation for babies involves putting two similarly aged kids next to each other, leaving them alone with a pile of toys while you chat with the other kid's parent and maybe interfering if you hear some some screaming. Who's watching this kid now, anyway and what are they doing that's so awesome? If your kid is potty trained, you don't neglect it, you point out colors, letter s and numbers from time to time, and answer its annoying and constant questions about the world, and teach it to sit when asked to, pre-school should do the rest. Also, take the kid to the public library and local playgrounds.

quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:

We've trying talking it out countless times, and it always devolves into the same conversations. We could go see a life coach, but seems like it would be a waste of money and fraud-like. Going to see a licensed therapist would be an option for me, but she strongly opposes it.

Why can't she go to a therapist? Is this financial? Religious? Are you Scientologist?


quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:
I might be able to see the value of a talking session, but we are both vehemently opposed to any form of medication.

Why? I've been depressed. It sucks, and it really is a chemical thing. I've also been on medication. It helps, and you would take meds if you had a bad pancreas (diabetes), why not when your brain is sick? When I stopped being depressed, I talked to a doctor about going off the meds. The dosage was tapered down gradually over the course of a month, and after that I saw the doctor again a few times. That was four years ago. I've been fine since then, though I did take advantage of my grad school's mental health services after a sudden death close to me and that was a Really Smart Move.

With respect to meds, I've heard (and this may be apocryphal) that the meds line gets drawn if you are having suicidal thoughts. When I was depressed I thought about killing myself, but never really did anything about it. I was never terribly serious about the idea, but it kept occurring to me. Pretty much all the time though. If you are healthy, it shouldn't occur to you at all really. Maybe randomly once it a while, but really, not at all.

quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:
I don't really know what depression looks like, but I fear for my wife.

I was crying on a nearly daily basis. There were some things in my life at the time that I had every right to be upset about, but mostly, I knew that I shouldn't be crying, or upset when my life was mostly okay (oh man, thinking about that time is making me cry). This one time, I broke down crying in German class for no reason (I forget the bad thing I thought of that triggered it), and it sucked, because I didn't want to be crying in a class of 15 people and honestly, I loved the crap out of my German class.

It was also really hard to do things and take care of myself. The fact that I had to be at meals for certain times meant I would get fed regularly, but I would show up in the dining hall two minutes before it closed. I would lie in bed, not wanting to get up, but needing to brush my teeth to go to bed, and it would be a hard dilemma for me.

These two articles do an excellent job describing depression. Okay, that's not true. I can relate really well to the first one but not the second one, but other people say the second one matches them, so I think everyone is different.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

[ October 05, 2013, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: theamazeeaz ]

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Dread Pendragon
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quote:
Originally posted by RivalOfTheRose:
I guess the simple options to rectify the situation are the following:

1. Get better coping skills to deal with the current situation (lame choice... pretty much telling her to deal with it).

2. Improve her job status (no time to find a new one, lack of other job options, no way to change the current one.)

3. Quit and be a full-time mom (hopefully the most rewarding, but would leave us financially in the red.)

4. Allow getting past the depression be the long-term goal, but temporarily not the short-term one. Often our (justifiable) anxiety to resolve problems keeps us stuck trying in attempts to fix things even though it isn't getting us anywhere.

A practical way to approach problems is to identify specific habits or patterns of how the problem plays out in our lives. A common . . . no, THE most common problematic "pattern" for couples is what is often called the "pursuer-distancer" pattern.

Pursuer-Distancer pattern:

Pursuer:
One partner is naturally more tuned into stress and problems, and subsequently puts a lot of effort into avoiding, preventing or otherwise trying to reduce distress. (But that's a good thing, right? Yes, sometimes. Sometimes less so.)

They can be plenty critical of others, but their automatic response to problems is usually "my bad." They blame themselves, or pay attention to their part of the problems, or just want to know what they can do to help.

The fear of the anxious partner is to not be abandoned (even though it sounds a little melodramatic to say it that way).

Distancer:
The other partner cares, but under stress they tend to push any feeling deeper than frustration/anger away. This happens automatically. They don't mean to "have a bad attitude," they just sincerely feel like it's pointless to talk about things. So instead of automatically responding with "my bad," they tend to grump at others and blame them.

They also cope with bad feelings by refocusing on tasks, which often makes them extremely competent people. The worrying spouse (pursuer) can feel so overwhelmed by their stress that it is more likely to interfere with their tasks.

The fear of the dismissing, "distancing" partner is to protect themselves from getting hurt emotionally.


What gets pushed aside by both sides are attempts to really understanding the suffering of the other. But they aren't trying to "not understanding." They automatically feel like they understand well-enough, and now something needs to be done to solve the problem!

A healthy, though difficult, alternative is to let go, temporarily, of any focus on fixing the problem. If someone is feeling terrible, consider the image of their suffering being symbolized by them sitting alone in a dark, scary room.

It is amazing the distress people can endure. Often the biggest issue is less the suffering, and more about how difficult it is to suffer alone. When we are at our best with each other, I would say that we often tolerate the unpleasantness of going in to be with others in their "dark rooms."

Back out of the analogy, it can look like taking the time to really listen and understand the other, without adding in problem-solving (no matter house reasonable and nice) or criticizing (no matter how "constructive"). If it is a "go in her dark room" moment, if ideas about what might be done to fix things that come to you, strategically set them aside for a later discussion.

It's easy . . . on paper. Most people think they are reasonably good listeners, but most everyone is terrible when stressed. In real life intense emotions tend to obscure things and get us off task.

If anyone actually is good at listening to people under stress it means that they have become strong at tolerating distress for a good cause.

If any of this fits, it doesn't mean either of you are "clinically" screwed up. Every romantic, committed relationship has some version of that pattern.

It's usually the worried, "pursuing" partner that sets up therapy (though sometimes when a couple hits rock bottom they temporarily switch in the pursuer-distancer roles). On the way to the first session they always say something along the lines of "Do we really need to do this? It isn't going to help."

The dismissing, "distancing" partner isn't trying to have a bad attitude about counseling. It just honestly, sincerely seems like an exercise in futility. At a gut level they feel like to try and talk through problems will never work, and will only make things worse.

It isn't bad luck. There's something about people that leads worriers (pursuers) to partner up with dismissers (withdrawers). Committed relationships are brilliant because there is a a real chance for us to work through our deepest fears and be happier, stronger, better people. Luckily nature makes us willing and naive enough to commit to the endeavor. [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
My advice would be to press harder for marriage counseling. Set an appointment and ask her to come along. I think you need help figuring out what will help.

Human beings are relationship animals, so most therapist-ish persons have interest in working with couples. However there are counselors that are worth your time and effort and some that are not. Try to find someone who has a reputation for being good with couples if you give it a shot.

All things being equal, I would tend to trust someone who has training in Emotionally Focused Couples Therapy.

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Kwea
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Check out legitimate work at home options. She could freelance write/type papers at home if she is good on the computer and still be at home. It wouldn't pay quite what she makes now, but it might help with the bills.

If she got a good amount of feedback on some of those sites she could have as much work as she wanted.

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RivalOfTheRose
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Thanks for all of the input guys... going to ruminate on all of this for a bit.
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odouls268
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RivalOfTheRose

Easy answer? Option 3, definitely.

If the choice is your wife's happiness and the success of your marriage in exchange for money woes, I would pay the price of money woes every time. The pain of being financially strapped is miniscule when compared to the heartbreak of the potential demise of a marriage.

But there is much more to it than that.

If you don't mind, what's your email, bro?

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Samprimary
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Related (and be careful with this link if you are a person who's already intimately familiar with the experience of depression):

Depression Quest

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