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Cue people saying this proves O'Mara is to blame, and that it's somehow unfair to look at Zimmerman as a liar.
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I don't even know what the cues are anymore. I mean he even called pastor terry jones. And these logs are insane.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Well can we at least say he's no angel, and that if his family didn't release this, they only have themselves to blame if folks begin to disparage his character?
Not really. His family hasn't gone on TV and talked about what a saint he was, or how great he is as far as I have seen. They haven't released pictures of him as a teenager as his current picture, called Martin a racist for beating a Hispanic male up, or claimed Martin made racial slurs to the police.
I figured he was a douche. If the rest of this is true they should press charges. If they don't.....well, they had their 15 min of fame....
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It's certainly possible GZ mistakenly told his brother O'Mara knew about the transfer when in fact he hadn't gotten around to it.
Still I think that statement about being unemployable in perpetuity is probably a big motivating factor in GZ wanting to just run away from it all. Still illegal stuff and he may have buried himself before standing trial for murder.
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If you haven't seen his family talking about what a great guy he is, you haven't been paying attention, I'm afraid.
But since you put it like this, if we have license to antagonistically question Zimmerman's character and they *didn't* claim he was a great guy (they did), why are the parents of Martin to be blamed for having invited it when they supposedly did (even though much of what you attributed to them wasn't actually said, as I described above)? Seems a bit of a double-standard, really.
It's still frankly baffling that you insist his parents should have released a better picture of their dead son, as though they were the ones who determined which image would be used in national coverage. I'm really confused, how do you think the major newsrooms operate? When all over the country, having meetings frequently about how to cover this story, did these producers and news directors and consultants say to themselves, "Alright, we need an image of Martin to go with this story. We'll use this one they put out, because it's the only one that could possibly be used, and our hands are tied."
I mean, of course not. Martin's parents weren't the ones who decided how the media would portray their son, and from what I've seen, and I looked, they made some statements that were true but incomplete, which is exactly what would be expected of parents grieving a dead child (or, I don't know, hulking scary man).
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Yeah, that's the thing. I wouldn't indict O'Mara based on Zimmerman's account, because ... it's Zimmerman talking. It could be BS. Or he could just legitimately have no idea what his idiot mouth is running on about.
or it could be a code hurr hurr hurr
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I don't think it would be possible to indict O'Mara based only a recording of Zimmerman saying he had told O'Mara. At a very minimum, GZ would have to be willing to testify against O'Mara in court and then it would be just a matter of GZ's word against O'Mara's.
Overall, I'm thoroughly unimpressed with O'Mara's handling of the case. Either he's given GZ a lot of very poor legal advice or Zimmerman is refusing to follow his advice or some of both.
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O'Mara's just showboating as usual. Really it is pretty much entirely that Zimmerman is just a really extremely bad client who has made extremely bizarre and questionable decisions right from the beginning, and slowly amped that up to criminally stupid.
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quote:Welp it's about 4 minutes into the interview and Hannity, of all - people, kinda called him out on an inconsistency already. To paraphrase :
Hannity : You said he was running...
GZ : It wasn't a run, more like a skipping.
Hannity : The 911 tape has you saying he was running.
GZ : Well I don't know if I really meant that.
Even with the softball s---, he's still floundering.
quote:It's official. He's the world's stupidest human being.
Keep commenting though. I don't have tv access.
quote:Skipping? Jesus christ, Zimmerman.
quote:He just said Trayvon punched him in the head over a dozen times after slamming his head into the ground. Trayvon Martin : Master of Hokuto Shinken.
Martin also tried to suffocate him now. O'Mara is just sitting there like he's about to flip.
quote:Imagining how this interview must have gone before editing it leads me to believe that the next high profile murder case in Florida is gonna come after O'Mara strangles the life out of Zimmerman.
quote:I feel terrible for laughing, since the whole incident was so tragic and infuriating, but... skipping?! My lord. I can only picture O'Mara's face during this whole trainwreck.
quote:Skipping? Was he actively looking for the word that made Treyvon's behavior sound least threatening?
quote:I just watched a clip of this, and Hannity questions him repeatedly whether he regrets anything that happened that night. Zimmerman says no, then says it was all part of god's plan.
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Oooooo. I know this is very uncharitable, but when he said he prays for Martin's parents everyday, I had a very bad taste in my mouth.
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Uncharitable? Well, I am quite a bit more ready to take offense than you are, BB, but that is to my mind understated. Praying for his parents. Jesus. No pun intended.
How many absurdly stupid or dishonest things does Zimmerman have to say or do before we can begin doubting something BECAUSE he said it?
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quote:Whether Zimmerman was the aggressor plays a major role in his self-defense claim.
“I hadn’t given them a correct address. I was going to give them the actual address,” he said.
“I meant that I was going in the same direction as him. I didn’t mean that I was actually pursuing him.”
(emphasis mine) I can hear the Daily Show segment now.
Also, he gets out of the car and suddenly Martin is there? Chalk up "ninjitsu" as just one more of Martin's martial art related skills.
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He was just, y'know, walking a few dozen then a few dozen more in the dark not because he was looking for him, but because he...wanted an address. Well I mean that's what I do if I want an address at night, I walk dozens or hundreds of feet between rows of houses to see where I am. Errr...was. Whatever.
I certainly don't use the cell phone I'm talking on and press a couple of buttons, though...
(Actually, I have no idea what sort of phone he was using, so that was a joke. But I think it's pretty uncommon for most smart phones not to come installed with a mapping app. Someone can correct me on that.)
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As to why Zimmerman's remarks about God and planning and prayer for his parents are so objectionable...according to Zimmerman, Martin literally ambushed him out of nowhere. (Somehow. He was just 'there', or something.) After doing this, with Zimmerman having done nothing but followed him in his truck, he then proceeds to violently attack Zimmerman. Following through, he got on top of his grounded victim and started to beat him to death, because he told him he was going to kill him and then began smashing his head into the ground. Zimmerman then shot him.
That means it was, according to Zimmerman, 'God's plan' that their son not just appear to be but actually BE a violently aggressive would be murderer. Aside from it being a profoundly stupid plan of God's, this goes further and says to his parents, "God wanted your son dead."
Kind of one of the hazards of invoking God, really, and the risk sharply increases when the invoker is a stupid man needing to defend himself against accusations.
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Kwea, I am still curious if you've found or can recall a time when Martin's parents said he was an angel (the closest I remember reading was his mother saying something about the kids getting along like angels at home or some such) or anything about how which picture they released governed which picture the media would use.
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Rakeesh, I have an app on my phone, but it would be a lot faster, and more accurate, to just get an address than start the app and wait for it to come up. If GPS was even turned on....I frequently turn mine off unless using it as it saps the battery life horribly.
Also....it shows streets, but not addresses, unless I type an address in. It will show a general area, but not the street addresses as I walk or run past them.
Not saying a thing about the interview, as I haven't seen it yet, or defending anything at this point because of that. Just a simple fact about GPS and mapping functions. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Actually, that picture was put on shirts, on flyers, used by Al Sharpton and his followers, and was hand selected by his parents as the first image of Martin that was released.
And I personally saw 2-3 interviews as this first began picking up steam where they claimed he was an angel, a perfect kid, and specifically stated he had never been in any trouble. I live down near where it happened, and it was a while ago, but I don't remember when it aired. I'll see if I can find it later, maybe.
I have no issue with Zimmerman's character being questioned. I just think that Martin's should be too.....and just because you question it doesn't make you a racist.
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quote:Actually, that picture was put on shirts, on flyers, used by Al Sharpton and his followers, and was hand selected by his parents as the first image of Martin that was released.
Sounds like a beef with Al Sharpton and his 'followers', not the parents. And has nothing to do with which image mainstream media used.
quote:And I personally saw 2-3 interviews as this first began picking up steam where they claimed he was an angel, a perfect kid, and specifically stated he had never been in any trouble. I live down near where it happened, and it was a while ago, but I don't remember when it aired. I'll see if I can find it later, maybe.
Well, Google hasn't turned up anything like that on all sorts of variations on Trayvon Martin parents angel call him etc.
quote:I have no issue with Zimmerman's character being questioned. I just think that Martin's should be too.....and just because you question it doesn't make you a racist.
Not only did I not say it did, but this has nothing to do with why his parents ought to be considered as having invited that consideration.
quote:Rakeesh, I have an app on my phone, but it would be a lot faster, and more accurate, to just get an address than start the app and wait for it to come up. If GPS was even turned on....I frequently turn mine off unless using it as it saps the battery life horribly.
Also....it shows streets, but not addresses, unless I type an address in. It will show a general area, but not the street addresses as I walk or run past them.
It took less than five seconds for it to come up on 3G for me just now, and in any event the question wasn't between finding an address with your eyes easily and possible use of a smart phone, but that and heading out after (sorry, not after, just a big coincidence that's where Zimmerman was heading) in the direction of this suspicious pedestrian at night between houses, and *not* just up the street to a corner to see a sign.
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I think we could expand this defense to cover lots of new ground. The Americans didn't invade Iraq, they were hedging in the direction of Bagdahd, when the Repubkican guard ambushed them.
I didn't rob the bank. I walked into the bank, and towards the vault, and the security guard came out of nowhere, so I defended myself, and safeguarded the bank's money.
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A simply glance at a map of the crime seem shows you just how preposterous Zimmerman's explanation that he was just looking for the address is. He left his car a few yards from an intersection (where one would general expect to find a sign with the street name). The site where he shot Martin is a 100 yards in the opposite direction on a walk way that goes behind two rows of houses.
In the crime scene photos, house numbers are clearly visible from the street. As would normally be expected, no house numbers are visible from the sidewalk behind the houses where the fight took place.
I'd love to hear Zimmerman's explanation of why he was going through people's back yards looking for the address. If he ever takes the witness stand (which I suspect his lawyer will go to great lengths to avoid), the cross examination is going to be pure gold for the prosecution.
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Zimmerman's statement that he left the car to be able to see a road sign / know which street he was on (in his complex which has all of three streets or so, that he knows by heart) is the least believable of all of his statements, and that's saying a lot.
quote:One of the biggest inconsistencies was Zimmerman’s change in explanation about why he got out of his Honda Ridgeline.
He told a police dispatcher moments before the confrontation that he was following Trayvon but in later interviews with police, he said something else.
“I walked to find the street name, to find a street sign,” Zimmerman said.
Asked Serino: “How do you not know the three streets in your neighborhood [where] you've been living for three years?”
Zimmerman said he has a bad memory and suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
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It doesn't bother me a bit that he didn't know the name of the street. Lots of people don't know the names of the street in their own neighborhoods. I know people who've lived in a small towns their entire life who know every person in town and where they live but don't know the names of any of the streets.
My parent have lived in the same house since 1970. The street they live on makes a right angle turn next to my parents house and the name changes. I know the name of my parents street, I have no idea what the name is on the other street. I've walked down that street thousands of times. I can tell you who lived in each of the houses back in the 70s. I have no idea what the name of the street is.
What I find absolutely unbelievable is that a person looking for a street name would head down a foot path behind peoples houses rather than toward a very close by intersection where street signs are usually found.
That coupled with the fact that he got out of the car right when he'd told the operator that Martin had started running and that the direction he went was the same direction Martin went make the lie so bald faced obvious, I doubt even his mother would believe it.
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He claims he never went more than 100 ft from his car. The spot where he shot Martin was over 300 feet from his car via the shortest path.
It seems down right ridiculous to make that kind of easily falsifiable claim.
Maybe Martin's a poor judge of distance, most people are, but why would he make the claim that he stayed close to his car at all since the distance from his car to the site of the shooting could be easily measured and no one's accused him of going further than that.
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To be fair, if I remember correctly there was a sidewalk in the area, at least I'd say five or six yards wide, between the rows of houses, so at that point I don't think he could be said to be going through back yards.
Of course, the problem with taking things like that into account is that it begs the question of just how it was Martin came to be considered suspicious, given that even by Zimmerman's own...fluctuating...account, he was walking on a high traffic area known in the neighborhood.
As for the street name, I could easily grant that someone who lived in a neighborhood wouldn't remember the names even of a few streets. A member of the neighborhood watch, less so. A 'captain' of same still less. That he would travel that way, in the same direction as Martin but not following him, that he wouldn't use his phone if he could have (which is likely), that he went all of that distance so he could know where he had been instead of just up a lit street...well.
In someone I trusted and knew to have good or even average judgment, I would think it a peculiar series of coincidences, but wouldn't be prepared to think they were lying. Zimmerman is not someone I trust or whose judgment I think is good-and even for people who believe Martin DID abruptly snap into lethal, even psychotic violence, Zimmerman isn't someone whose word and judgment should be trusted.
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according to zimmerman's re-enactment and testimony, his suspicion was from when he was following martin in his car and martin was walking on lawns by the street up in the top left corner of the map, where he had probably come in from between residences from outside the neighborhood, where he had just been purchasing the drink and candy.
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quote:To be fair, if I remember correctly there was a sidewalk in the area, at least I'd say five or six yards wide, between the rows of houses, so at that point I don't think he could be said to be going through back yards.
My point was that one would not normally look for addresses on the back of houses not that he wasn't on a public thoroughfare. This is not a route he would have chosen if he were looking for addresses.
The crime scene photos confirm that the addresses are clearly visible on the side of the houses facing the road and that there are no addresses on the back side of the houses that face the side walk.
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Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered.
Looking forward to the trial.
Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.
I see a lot of issues with several of his statements, but this one isn't an issue with me.
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered..
Have you heard his testimony? He says he was instantly knocked down, pinned to the ground and straddled and that he was barely able to squirm his way a few feet off the sidewalk onto the grass.
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quote:Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.
A lot of people don't have a smart phone with GPS capability. I don't. Zimmerman didn't even have a job, so its unlikely he had all the latest toys.
But I don't see that that matters. He drove passed the street sign at the intersection while he was on the phone to 911. He parked his car a few yards from the street sign and then headed the opposite direction around behind the row of houses where there are (and would not normally be) any street signs or house numbers.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: Well, it depends.....during a fight a lot of ground can be covered..
Have you heard his testimony? He says he was instantly knocked down, pinned to the ground and straddled and that he was barely able to squirm his way a few feet off the sidewalk onto the grass.
No, I was working and haven't heard it yet. Plenty of questions raised, to be sure.
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quote:My point was that one would not normally look for addresses on the back of houses not that he wasn't on a public thoroughfare. This is not a route he would have chosen if he were looking for addresses.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were inaccurate, just to clarify was all. I agree it is pretty odd he would go that way if he were looking for a street name, to say the least.
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quote:Rakeesh, as I said, not everyone keeps GPS enabled on their phones. I takes me about 4 min (I just timed it) on Sprint's 3G network, and once I call it up it didn't provide a lot of detail.
Well like I've said at least twice now, I don't insist on it as damning or proof of untruth, only as another coincidence that's necessary to make Zimmerman's account true. So far we're up to, let's see...
That Zimmerman legitimately deemed Martin suspicious, in spite of his presence as a pedestrian on a known high traffic path, his inability to see Martin anywhere nearby (but who was close enough to ambush him so thoroughly), his ignorance of what street he was on in spite of there being so few and in light of his neighborhood watch captaincy and frequent activity in that role, the peculiarity of his decision to travel that route to find a street name while *not* also intending to follow Martin, and how strange it is for Martin to have simply snapped into this sort of violence for what Zimmerman described as no real reason at all, in spite of having no known history of such that we've seen yet.
For Zimmerman's accounting of himself to be both true and accurate, all of those oddities need to swing his way, whereas any one of them point towards him not just being a NW captain trying to do his duty but rather seeking a confrontation, and if some of them are not the way he says, are outright damning.
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A three-judge panel from the Court of Appeal has granted George Zimmerman a new judge, according to a CBS/AP report. The Olando Sentinel reports that the new judge is Debra S. Nelson.
Now that Judge Lester has been removed, Zimmerman is slightly closer to getting a fair trial.
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A close vote yes on one count, a vote no on another count, just to put it in perspective. Also that the appeal ruling doesn't validate Zimmerman's account of convenient negligence and stupidity with respect to money, either.
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The consensus prior to the appeal ruling I read from various legal pundits seems to match the split of the vote-that there might conceivably be a case for changing the judge, but that it was far from cut and dried and may just as well have been not enough.
Anyone who tells you that the judge being removed was the only reasonable, fair outcome to the appeal is thus selling something.
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Yeah, I don't care how you come down on Zimmerman and Martin's encounter. This is just in very poor taste.
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The act of auctioning the gun starts out at 'very poor taste'. The way Zimmerman is characterizing it takes it well into 'obscene'. (Not that I think you would disagree. It's just goddamn, the way he talks about the auction. Though there is some satisfaction in the way he has apparently been reduced to groveling for money and making a spectacle of himself. I wonder when the book will come out.)
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For a normal human being, killing someone - even if necessary - will be the worst thing they ever do. In Zimmerman's twisted mind, killing a boy was the high point of his life
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It shouldn't be surprising. It was probably some desperate need for attention and validation that led him to become a self-appointed neighborhood watchman in the first place.
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He's the human equivalent of the product of an enima, no doubt, but as far as I remember, he was official neighborhood watch & not self appointed.
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It looks like that depends on who you talk to. Google turns up hundreds of hits of articles who refer to him as "self-appointed".
The Daily best says this:
"Whether or not Zimmerman was an official neighborhood watchman or was self-appointed is now a matter of dispute. The National Sheriffs’ Association, which runs the Neighborhood Watch Program, said it has “no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program,” NSA executive director Aaron D. Kennard said in a statement."
Other hits say that neighborhood meeting chose him (the only volunteer, and I wonder if the entire thing was his idea).
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According to his statement at trial, the president of the homeowners' association did not think there was a need for a neighborhood watch.
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Not surprised. I've served on a governing board for my grad student apartments and there is a large tendency to vest the person who comes in demanding a program with the responsibility of making it happen. Partly because the people in charge don't feel like it or want, but if someone does and is willing to do the work, then whatever, go ahead.
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It would be interesting to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting and heard him say, "Ok, and I'll carry a gun and confront people even when explicitly advised not to by 911, that's cool, right?"
At least Zimmerman himself has largely shut up his own past supporters by being such a reliable scumbag post-trial.
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