Or maybe OSC could just write what he wants to write, hmmmmm........
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
But it wouldn't be that funny anymore, blacwolve Posted by Laurenz0 (Member # 5336) on :
Is osc doing any more ender books? It would suprise me. i don't think he is.
Posted by Alai (Member # 1663) on :
For the one millionth time... Yes.
Posted by Laurenz0 (Member # 5336) on :
What books are these, I thought he was only doing one more in the shadow series and another thats kinda both and kidna neither.
Posted by Jason R. Peters (Member # 5430) on :
Miro,
First of all, I find it ironic that your screenname comes directly from the Ender series.
Secondly, Laurenz0 is right; I have only heard of Card working on the Shadow series, not preparing another Ender sequel.
Third, I am not certain why it matters to you whether or not Card writes more Ender books. No one is forcing you to read them. However, if there are others out there who would like to see more, it would give them great pleasure to see another Ender (or Shadow) book, and costs you nothing. Does it?
Posted by WheatPuppet (Member # 5142) on :
Well, it would cost him the possible other non-enderverse book released instead. I don't see that as much of a problem, because Mr. Card puts out more writing than almost any other writer I know (those who beat him are the masochistic people who write handbooks for roleplaying games).
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Secondly, Laurenz0 is right; I have only heard of Card working on the Shadow series, not preparing another Ender sequel."
It depends how you define "sequel," of course; Card has announced that one of the Shadow books will take place shortly after the events of CotM, and will involve Ender's version of Peter and a descendant of Bean.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
WheatPuppet - I'm a "her".
Why is it ironic that my name comes from the Ender series? I love the quartet and Ender's Shadow. I can't even count the number of times I've read Ender's Game and Xenocide. The reason I don't want anymore Enderverse books is because I love the series so much. I'm invested in it big time, and so I don't want it messed up. Generally, I have a lot of confidence in Card. He's an amazing writer. Unfortunately, I really don't like the direction he's gone with Shadow of the Hegemon and Shadow Puppets. If he continues in that vein, I don't think I'll like Shadow of the Giant. Not because it'll be a bad book - I doubt that - but because it'll mess with characters I care about. And that goes a hundred-fold for the possible tie-in novel after Children of the Mind. It won't only mess with Peter, Valentine, Bean, or his crew, it'll mess with Ender, Novinha, Jane, the piggies, the Hive Queen, and, most of all, Miro.
So that's why I don't want any more Enderverse books. As for not reading future books, that would be very hard. I come here a lot, and they would be hard to avoid. Besides, the temptation to see what Card does would be enormous. I wouldn't really want to know, but I'm only human. Posted by Alai (Member # 1663) on :
quote:What books are these, I thought he was only doing one more in the shadow series and another thats kinda both and kidna neither.
Well the book taking place AFTER Children of the Mind will most likely be centered around Peter (who of course, **CHILDREN OF THE MIND SPOILRERS** is really Ender, or his aiua.). **END SPOILERS**
quote:Secondly, Laurenz0 is right; I have only heard of Card working on the Shadow series, not preparing another Ender sequel.
And what we had between us was a misunderstanding, or him defining the "Ender" series as a bit different. There are actually 2 books in the works, you have only mentioned one.
Posted by Jason R. Peters (Member # 5430) on :
I'll gladly stand corrected if another installment of the reincarnation of Peter Wiggin (Ender's Auia) is forthcoming. That's a bonus for me.
But I'd be willing to say I'm a huge OSC fan, and I haven't read nearly everything he's written. He is working on books and projects that don't (at the moment) excite me. But I'm not going to beg him not to work on those projects so that he can instead devote his time solely to work which pleases me.
Should I write Universal Studios, Dreamworks, Disney (etc.) and tell them which movies I liked, which I didn't, and give clear guidelines for which I'd like them to produce? Should I write Nintendo and say, '"Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker" and "Metroid Prime" were on the money--please stop wasting your time with titles like "Luigi's Mansion" and "Mario Sunshine"'?
What's the point of trying to dictate art? If you succeed, it ceases to be art and instead becomes commercialism.
I'll be honest; I didn't like Xenocide nearly as much as I enjoyed Speaker for the Dead. But I didn't think the characters were 'ruined'. And by contrast, the more recent the Shadow book is, the more affection I have for Bean's character in it--I didn't like the original Bean very much.
1. You've as much as admitted you don't know which direction Card might go with the characters you mention. There's a possibility the next "Enderverse" book Card writes will be the best in your opinion, in spite of your initial doubts. If he doesn't write that book, though, the chances of liking it are definately zero.
2. Even if you don't like it, it doesn't change the characters as they are portrayed in the books you already liked. And regardless of what you want the characters to do, they are Card's characters. If he writes something, it's because he can see them doing it based on what he's already written.
On the other hand, if you just wanted to say, "I liked these original books but the recent ones aren't so great in my opinion" why not say that instead of asking for a concensus of people t
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
quote: Should I write Universal Studios, Dreamworks, Disney (etc.) and tell them which movies I liked, which I didn't, and give clear guidelines for which I'd like them to produce? Should I write Nintendo and say, '"Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker" and "Metroid Prime" were on the money--please stop wasting your time with titles like "Luigi's Mansion" and "Mario Sunshine"'?
Yes, you should. If enough people with grievances write about certain problems, those problems are more likely to be fixed in future releases.
Anyhow, it's not the same thing. OSC is an author, and an artist, and as such no one is allowed to dictate what he works on. Whereas Universal, Disney and Nintendo are huge, incredibly rich, money-driven corporations. They're run by people who work in an incredibly competitive industry. The men with power dictate the actions of the artists who work for them.
Otherwise I agree with you, but people are always entitled to complain.
[ July 23, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Fitz ]
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
quote: 1. You've as much as admitted you don't know which direction Card might go with the characters you mention. There's a possibility the next "Enderverse" book Card writes will be the best in your opinion, in spite of your initial doubts. If he doesn't write that book, though, the chances of liking it are definately zero.
2. Even if you don't like it, it doesn't change the characters as they are portrayed in the books you already liked. And regardless of what you want the characters to do, they are Card's characters. If he writes something, it's because he can see them doing it based on what he's already written.
On the other hand, if you just wanted to say, "I liked these original books but the recent ones aren't so great in my opinion" why not say that instead of asking for a concensus of people
1. I in no way know what Card's going to write in his future books. I may love SotG. I doubt it, though, and the risk to the characters is great. 2. A person, whether real or fictional, reveals him/herself through his or her actions. And so anything additional that a character may do in SotG will reflect on and change the context of that character's previous actions. Second, what Card writes in the future will not necessarily be based entirely on what he has written in the past. He, like any other person, changes and grows as time goes on. This is, presumably, a good thing. However, it means that SotG and the possible tie-in novel will be the writings of a different man than the original series, and won't necessarily hold true to the things I found most compelling, or loved best about that series. Also, I disagree about the characters belonging entirely to Card. Card himself has said that a story is created between the words on the page and the reader's mind. So the characters in my head are as much mine as they are his. So please excuse me if I feel a little possesive.
If this thread was in bad taste, I apologise. I didn't intend it that way. I just did it has a takeoff of and counterpoint to the "Can anyone BEG OSC to write more Ender books?" thread.
Well, I'm leaving for a month in about four hours, so this discussion will have to continue without me.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Miro --
If you don't want OSC to mess up your beloved characters and universe with new books, I see two things you can do:
1) Just *DON'T READ THE BOOKS!* If it will cause you pain and suffering to read them, then why bother.
2) If you cannot help yourself, and you find that you don't like the changes that OSC made to your precious world, disregard those changes. I have done the same thing with Star Wars. I consider the original 3 movies Star Wars, and the most recent 2 as the work of a charlatan fanfic author.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Mr. Prot-something something Head - I think what chaps the hides of a lot of those in the for-the-love-of-god-stop-writing-Enderverse-books camp is that OSC is taking time away from OTHER books he could be writing, like his outstanding one-shots.
It's not so much a matter of 'not reading them' when they come out, we're also not reading the masterpieces OSC could be writing were he not distracted with more of the same same same.
You dig?
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: I have done the same thing with Star Wars. I consider the original 3 movies Star Wars, and the most recent 2 as the work of a charlatan fanfic author.
You do know that George Lucas wrote all five of the existing Star Wars movies right? Just because an author writes a masterpiece, and then writes a flop, that doesn't negate the greatness of the original masterpiece. To say otherwise is childish and immature.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
>> It depends how you define "sequel," of course; Card has announced that one of the Shadow books will take place shortly after the events of CotM, and will involve Ender's version of Peter and a descendant of Bean. <<
He's WHAT?!?!?!?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I'm fine with the idea of a sequel to Children of the Mind. The semi-cliffhanger ending bugged me. But the descendant of Bean? I really don't know about that. It sounds like too much of a stretch to link them together.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
OSC has the flexiblity for it. He's a genius writer, just because I can't see what the plot could possibly contain, that doesn't mean that he can't still surprise the crap out of all of us.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: I'm fine with the idea of a sequel to Children of the Mind. The semi-cliffhanger ending bugged me.
That doesn't begin to describe the disappointment I felt when I closed the back cover of CotM. If it weren't for copyright issues, I would write my own sequel. jk Posted by Deidra (Member # 5455) on :
OSC should write more books if he feels like, or no books. It is up to him what he writes and you as to what you read.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
Of course, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't say what we think about his plans.
>> I'm fine with the idea of a sequel to Children of the Mind. The semi-cliffhanger ending bugged me. << (Jon Boy)
Cliffhanger? What's left to tell? Either the descoladores are ramen, in which case we make peace with them and learn to understand them, or they're varelse, in which case we kill them all. Both of these have been done already in the Ender Quartet. We don't need to see it happen again.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: OSC should write more books if he feels like, or no books. It is up to him what he writes and you as to what you read.
I can express what I want though.
Twinky, I want to see what happens to the descolada planet anyway. Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
I dunno. They don't call it the Enderverse for nothing, and Ender's story is told. Done. Finito.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: I dunno. They don't call it the Enderverse for nothing, and Ender's story is told. Done. Finito
True, but Ender's children still have a lot of life and vigor left. If OSC will write it, I will read it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:
quote: I have done the same thing with Star Wars. I consider the original 3 movies Star Wars, and the most recent 2 as the work of a charlatan fanfic author.
You do know that George Lucas wrote all five of the existing Star Wars movies right? Just because an author writes a masterpiece, and then writes a flop, that doesn't negate the greatness of the original masterpiece. To say otherwise is childish and immature.
If I understand what you are saying, I mostly agree with you. I just find it difficult to beleive that the person who created ep 4-6 turned into the person that would make ep 1-2. I am a fan of the Lucas of the 70s and 80s, but not of the 90s and 00s. So much so that I no more consider his recent work as much of *my* Star Wars universe as if it were fan fiction.
Posted by bCurt (Member # 5476) on :
I don't think the problem with the new Star Wars episodes is the story but the execution of it in the movies. Georgie did write and direct IV: New Hope but left the directing up to others for V and VI (Kershner and Marquand respectively). He also left the screenplay writing up to Brackett and Kasdan in V and co-wrote the screenplay for VI with Kasdan. With I, II and III Georgie is doing both the writing and directing. I think with the right director and a good screenplay adaption of the story the movies would be great.
[ August 01, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: bCurt ]
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
quote: Cliffhanger? What's left to tell? Either the descoladores are ramen, in which case we make peace with them and learn to understand them, or they're varelse, in which case we kill them all. Both of these have been done already in the Ender Quartet. We don't need to see it happen again.
You know, I never thought of it quite like that, but that's basically how I feel. The story is over, but the world goes on. It gives the story a feeling of reality.
Nick - I know Card will write what he will write, and I will read it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't express my opinion. Posted by Morgaine (Member # 4691) on :
I didn't particularly like the way Ender's story turned out, but I love what's going on with Bean. It's really just a matter of opinion, Miro.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
Miro, I'm just curious. Why wouldn't you want OSC to continue the Ender series? I am really curious as to what happens to Peter, Wang-mu, Jane and Miro (and everyone else), but then again, I seem to be the only one who actually likes the SFTD, Xenocide, and COTM. I like all of the Ender series books, 1-7. Yay!!
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down"
[ August 24, 2003, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: wieczorek ]
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
quote: seem to be the only one who actually likes the SFTD, Xenocide, and COTM. I like all of the Ender series books, 1-7.
wieczorek I disagree, I liked those books, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, and Shaddow Puppets are actually my favorites of the series. Yeah I know I'm weird.
Also I would guess Miro liked them or he wouldn't have chosen that screen name, and wouldn't be as concerned about preserving the quality of the series.
Still I think that since Card has done very well with the first seven books in the Ender Series(Or four in the Ender Series and three in the Shadow series if you preffer) we should trust that any other books in the Enderverse will also be good.
Posted by Miro (Member # 1178) on :
quote: I didn't particularly like the way Ender's story turned out, but I love what's going on with Bean. It's really just a matter of opinion, Miro.
Oh, I know that.
quote: Miro, I'm just curious. Why wouldn't you want OSC to continue the Ender series? I am really curious as to what happens to Peter, Wang-mu, Jane and Miro (and everyone else), but then again, I seem to be the only one who actually likes the SFTD, Xenocide, and COTM. I like all of the Ender series books, 1-7.
Actually Xenocide is my favorite of the series (with EG in an extremely close second). As for your question, that's what I've been trying to explain. I guess I'm not doing too well at it.
quote: Also I would guess Miro liked them or he wouldn't have chosen that screen name, and wouldn't be as concerned about preserving the quality of the series.
Except for the part about me being a he, you're exactly right.
edit: typo
[ August 25, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Miro ]
Posted by yeli:) (Member # 5596) on :
Hi all of you I'm new around here, got into this forum cos I wanted to find out about anything new from the Ender series, and ended up reading all of it cos it was really interesting. First of all I wanted to say I really liked the end of CotM, I think it closed a lot of parts of the story, but also left enough opened (sorry for my English, not my native language, but I do my best). But even though I liked the end, I would be happy to read a sequel. Call it an addiction, I'd love to read about those characters and the rest of their story, and I trust OSC to write a good story no matter what. Same goes with the shadow series. Miro - how can you ask for no more books? Shadow Puppets' end is not an end at all... I can't wait for the SofG. And I'm sure I'll like it cos I really like what's going on with Bean... Second -
quote: What's left to tell? Either the descoladores are ramen, in which case we make peace with them and learn to understand them, or they're varelse, in which case we kill them all. Both of these have been done already in the Ender Quartet. We don't need to see it happen again.
I disagree. This way you can also say there's no point in reading SotG, cos it's clear that **Shadow Series SPOILER** Bean'll get bigger and bigger and then die, **end of spoiler**, and peter'll unite the world in peace. the fun in reading OSC books is the way he writes the events and the characters, not the way the problems get solved (in my opinion anyway).
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
Well I personally think there's more to be told and OSC could easily a lot of new life into the series. However, I think he needs to do something bold and new with his concluding book - and something that harkens back to the original Ender's Game. The series should not end with a whimper, and very well could. Ideally it should somehow tie together the remaining themes that have been there since the beginning. In particular, was Ender a beast or a saint?
As for the Shadow series.... I'm not exactly sure what the central idea behind it is. Hopefully that will come out in the next book with the demise of Bean. But if it can tie in well with the central ideas of the Speaker series, I think it could all work out very well.
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
quote:Speaker series
I've never heard it referred to that way. Was that a freudian slip? Whatever it was, I find myself agreeing with you. From the intro that OSC wrote to Speaker for the Dead, I think that even HE might refer to the Ender series as the Speaker series. Interesting thought.
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Just because an author writes a masterpiece, and then writes a flop, that doesn't negate the greatness of the original masterpiece. To say otherwise is childish and immature.
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