Remember how Ender didn't believe in any god and then Novinha somehow made him join the Children of the Mind? I wonder if it was because he loved her so much and his mind made him believe that he believed in God, or if he just lied about being pious and Novinha believed him, or if he truly, over the years on Lusitania, if he truly became pious. What does everyone think?
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down"
[ August 21, 2003, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: wieczorek ]
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
quote:"I certainly do too believe in God," said Ender, annoyed.
"Oh, you're willing to concede God's existence, but that's not what I meant. I mean believe in him the way a mother means when she says to her son, I believe in you. She's not saying she believes he exists--what is that worth?--she's saying she believes in his future, she trusts that he'll do all the good that is in him to do. She puts the future in his hands, that's how she believes in him. You don't believe in Christ that way, Andrew. You still believe in yourself. In other people. You've sent out your little surrogates, those children you conjured up duing your visit in hell--you may be here with me in these walls right now, but your heart is out there scouting planets and trying to stop the fleet. You aren't leaving anything up to God. You don't believe in him."
"Excuse me, but if God wanted to do everything himself, what did he make us for in the first place?"
"Yes, well, I seem to recall that one of your parents was a heretic, which is no doubt where your strange ideas come from." It was an old joke between them, but this time neither of them laughed.
On the next page. . .
quote: "Maybe I don't believe in Christ the way that you do," said Ender. "But isn't it enough that I believe in you, and you believe in him?"
"You don't belong here Andrew."
"I beling here more than anywhere else, if this is where you are. I'm not so much world-wearly, Novinha, as I am will-weary. I tired of deciding things. I'm tired of trying to solve things."
Later still. . .
quote:Ender looked up at her. "Please, Novinha, let me live with you here. You're my wife. There's no meaning to my life if I've lost you."
So, he does believe in God and Novinha tried to talk him out of joining the order.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
But how do we know that he wasn't just creating all that hoofla to make Novinha believe that he was pious, and he knew that she at first wouldn't believe him and wouldn't want him joining the COTM if she thought that he didn't really believe in God, so he kept going and kept insisting that he did believe in God, b/c he knew that Novinha would think that if he gave up that he was putting on an act? I don't know if OSC would want to put all of that, understandably, anyways, into words in the book. But I can't be sure.
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down"
[ August 21, 2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: wieczorek ]
Posted by Mikal (Member # 5564) on :
I think that Ender does believe in God in the sense that he describes it. I dont however think he necessarily buys into one specific religion, whether it be catholicism, mormonism (the heretic religion reffered to above), or anything else. I found it interesting the way his relationship with God was described; the fact that he acknowledges God's existence but not that God is doing anything to help him. In my opinion this stems from the way that he, as a child, was taught that no help would ever come to him; that no matter what happened, he was alone. Because of this, he could not grasp the idea of a benevolent God that watched over everyone.
Posted by wieczorek (Member # 5565) on :
That really makes sense, Mikal. I hadn't really looked at it that way before. Thanx
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