Hatrack River Forum: OSC and Lord of the Rings

This is topic OSC and Lord of the Rings in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :

I am trying to win a bet, but losing poorly. I know for a fact there was an homage to Lord of the Rings in one of the Alvin books, but I can't find it. Wasn't it a poem that Arthur Stuart made up that referenced the quest? Dang if I can find it looking through my books and thought someone might remember it better. I remember thinking it was a great homage and now that I am in full-on Tolkien mode as we move into Fall and Winter...well, even a quick aside like in Alvin is fun! But my wife doesn't believe me and therein lies the bet. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

fil

Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :

I believe you're thinking of an extra verse in the song Alvin made up. Alvin Journeyman -- p. 270 in the paperback, p. 263 in hardback.

--Pop

Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :

I've stuck pretty much with the Ender's series, but the more I hear you guys discuss the Alvin Maker series, the more it intrigues me. I guess I'll have to read that stupid set too!

Posted by Bricks-N-Sandwiches (Member # 5603) on :

It's worth it...If you can get past the historical inaccuracies, and the folksie dialogue...but these same foibles are one of the endearing qualities of the series. [Hat]

Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :

As far as historical inaccuracies go, it IS set in an alternate universe, you know.

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :

And once again, Papa Moose get's his hand up before mine to answer a trivia question. [Mad]

. Hi Moose! [Big Grin]

Hobbes

Posted by Happy Camper (Member # 5076) on :

Wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that verse of the song. That's pretty cool. And yes, ES, you should definitely read it. That series is by far my favorite of Card's.

Edit: Come to think of it, I'm sure that I did notice it, but for some reason couldn't remember noticing it. I think I forget a lot of stuff like that. Musta been too much of this
[Wall Bash]

.

[ September 01, 2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Happy Camper ]

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

Would anyone care to post the relevant passage? I don't have access to the Alvinverse right now. [Smile]

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :

quote:
Alone with my imagining
I dreamt the darkest dream,
Of tiny men, a spider's sting.
And in a land of smoke and steam
An evil golden ring

Hobbes

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

[Hail]

Hobbes!

*now to resume my regularly scheduled lfie*

Posted by Mikal (Member # 5564) on :

I remember getting so excited when I first read that.
Not sure why he put it in there, though.

Posted by fil (Member # 5079) on :

Yeehaa...I won a bet. Okay, it was more for pride (a sin?), but still.

Yeah, I wondered why he put it in there as well. Just as homage? I read (or heard) that Tolkien was attempted to create a rich, mythical history for Britain, something akin to the Greek or Roman Gods and heroes, etc. Everything else in their history was borrowed (or stolen) from other, richer storytelling traditions. Mabye OSC was doing the same for the US, creating a more rich tapestry of history and myth that a young nation such as ours needs. Maybe I am reading too much into it and he just did it as a fanboy love for a great piece of fiction.

Or maybe, he was actually pointing to the fact that the Alvin books take place on the same world that Middle Earth did, only millenia later. That in fact, Alvin will forge the One Ring. Or maybe Harrison will, making him the Dark Lord and Carthage City (also known as Cincinnati) Mordor.

Which, having lived in Cincinnati for 10 years, makes PERFECT sense to me! [Big Grin]

But anyway, thanks for looking it up. Was good to read again and in my geeky LOTR mood (soon to be Alvin again when the new one is released) it was a nice fanboy jolt.

Ciao,

fil

Posted by Cactus Jack (Member # 2671) on :

[ROFL]

: gasping for air :

(C'mon, breathe, Jack, breathe)

[ROFL]

. . . historical inaccuracies . . .

[ROFL]

(C'mon, Jack get with it)

. . . wheeze, wheeze . . .

:composes self:

Ahem.

Yes. Yes. That's a real problem.

Maybe you should make a detailed list of them, send them to the publisher, and they can be corrected in later editions.

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

I was like "whatever" when I read that because I had no clue about LOTR. I'm getting pretty tempted to read it finally, but I want to wait until I've seen Return of the King. Anatomical inaccuracies notwithstanding. And all those made up Elvis [sic] words.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

[Laugh]

Cactus Jack

Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :

[Laugh]

fil

I love the thought of a Dark Lord in Cincinatti.

I missed that verse the first time because I hadn't read LotR yet...but now I'm a born again expert and I've been meaning to read the Alvin series again anyway... [Smile]

Thanks Pop and Hobbes for all the great trivia and joy you bring to my life!

Posted by Ksig (Member # 5625) on :

that's so cool, i never noticed that before! Thanks for pointing that out. And to think i thought i was an LOTR fan..... [Blushing]