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I have always been puzzled as to why the Protestants always make a distinction between Christians and Catholics.

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-Protestants don't pray to Mary or believe she is holy. Important, but not holy.
-Protestants don't believe that good deeds can save you.
-Protestants don't believe that communion really is Jesus Christ's flesh and blood, but rather they believe it follows Jesus's command: "Do this in remembrance of me."

Scripturally, there isn't much support of quite a lot of what Catholics believe. Mary for example. Where in the Bible does it say you should pray to Mary?

They don't believe in condoms, birth control, or anything like that. No contraceptives.

Oops, that turned into a rant. I'm sorry, but I just have personal issues with that church.

Now, those are differences between Catholics and protestants. What makes both of those groups Christians is one simple thing.
They both believe Christ redeemed them of their sins and cleanse them of all unrighteousness. Catholics have a different belief on how you go about that cleansing too.

[ February 19, 2004, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Nick ]
 

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Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :
 
Protestants are just jealous because Catholics get to go to Heaven.
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
But Catholics have to go through "purgatory" first in order to get there -- Protestants don't!


FG
 

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Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
 

quote:

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Protestants are just jealous because Catholics get to go to Heaven.

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And you believe I'm not going there because I'm protestant?

Bullcrap!
 

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Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
 
I thought the whole idea behind this is that it is a dedicated catholic colony. By the time Ender gets there you're at least 3 generations away from the original settlers. The colonists lives revolve around their religion and for those born and raised on Lusitania most of their understanding and knowledge of other religions comes from their Catholic priests. They have no first hand experience of members of other religions. This situation tends to lead to isolationism and breeds contempt and prejudice for anyone different whether its religion or not.

OSC also hints that there are similar situations on other planets that have been colonised by different religious groups i.e. Calvinism on Trondheim etc. but the main difference is that Lusitania is totally isolated. Unlike other planets no one else was allowed to emigrate there after the original settlers because of the discovery of the piggies. So the idea of others being infidels just concentrated because there was nothing to dilute it.
 

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Posted by BattleSchooler06 (Member # 6279) on :
 
hmm i noticed...most things in his book are eaither catholic christian or athiest...no jews....lol i wonder why (im jewish myself) and i dont really understand the infidel thing...and how is the speaker for the dead satans servent? i never really understood that one....would a jew be a satans servent too? interesting question
 

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Posted by LockeTreaty (Member # 5627) on :
 

quote:

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I have always been puzzled as to why the Protestants always make a distinction between Christians and Catholics.

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It truly is amazing, especially since the Protestant religion was just a rouge section of the Catholic church.

Considering the reason it split from the Catholic church I always find it hilarious to no end when the complain about divorce rates and about the ruining of marriage, but thats irony for you.

(runs and hides from the angry protestants with their pitchforks and torches).

p.s. truly meant as a joke, but I don't suppose that will stop the blows.

~NOTLockeTreaty
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're confusing the Anglican split with the Lutheran Reformation.
 

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Posted by LockeTreaty (Member # 5627) on :
 
I don't believe so, but who knows.

(goes back to hiding, hoping no one foundhis hiding place)

~NotLockeTreaty
 

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Posted by Grandma Edie (Member # 5771) on :
 
A reponse to the question: Why no Jews in Card's fiction?
My guess (I have not asked him this) is that he is following the old rule of "Write what you know."
Obviously, he knows Mormons. He served (I forget how many years) in Brazil. He discovered the Brazillian Catholic culture, and encountered much narrow-mindedness and much broad mindedness, both of which made an impression.
So, Roman Catholic is the faith he is second-best acquainted with. When he got irritated at too many U.S. science-fiction writers who assumed that
the habitable universe would be inhabited exclusively by American types, he decided to use the Brazillian Catholic culture to put into space.
Ender is the child of a lapsed Catholic father and an inactive Mormon mother.
No one ever called Ender diabolical except an extremely narrow minded Catholic (Card, as a missionary, probably got called diabolical a few times). Alvin was considered diabolical by extremely narrow minded Puritans. In both cases, there was nothing personal. Just a symptom of narrow mindedness.
Incidentally, Catholics DID call non-Catholics "infidels" as late as the 1950s.
 

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Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :
 
Enchantment has Jews.
 

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Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
 
Gosh, Yozhik, why would that book come to mind for you? *wink*
 

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
 
I guess technically the "Women of Genesis" series is not about Jews because Judah wasn't born yet. And Moses was a Levite.
 

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Posted by romanylass (Member # 6306) on :
 
and how is the speaker for the dead satans servent? i never really understood that one.

I always felt that was somewhat personal on Bishop Peregrino's part...Ender representeed a threat to the power and authority he has established on Lusitania, and what better way to ward that off, in a highly religious community, that to refer to that threat as Satan's servant?
 

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Posted by Agent Orange (Member # 6310) on :
 
Scripturally, there isn't much support of quite a lot of what Catholics believe. Mary for example. Where in the Bible does it say you should pray to Mary?

As a former Catholic I feel I should point out that it's a little more subtle than simply "praying to Mary." When a Christian prays to God, one is asking specifically for God's intervention, for your self or for others, or maybe saying thanks, but always the implication is that you are communicating directly with Da Boss.

When a Catholic prays to a Saint (and remember, Mary is a Saint as recognised by the Catholic Church), s/he is asking that Saint to intercede on his/her behalf with God.

As a Saint, Mary doesn't answer prayers herself, but instead takes your case before the Throne and pleads for you, the same way any other Saint could. What makes Mary so different is that she's supposed to be the most merciful of the Saints. If you did something naughty and wanted a Saint to intercede for you, you wouldn't pray to St. Thomas Aquinas, for example.

As to the Satan's servant question,I think romanylass is on to something. Bishop Peregrino isn't just calling Ender the Servant of Satan as a propaganda tool though, he really believes it. Peregrino sees Ender not just as a humanist, but as a "H"umanist, a representative of a rival faith, one that happens to be the predominant faith in the 100 Worlds, and rather antithetical to Church doctrine, if not Christianity in general.

Peregrino, as a servant of God (one who is not kept humble by Cardinals, the Pope etc) has an inflated sense of his own place in the Church, and grants to his enemy a similarly lofty (if more evil) title. OSC himself mentions this when he discusses the attitude of the crowd just before Ender speaks Marcao's death. Peregrino has cast Ender's visit as a great struggle between Good and Evil, and acts according to that belief. His flock picks up on this of course.

Agent Orange
PS this is my first post here, so if I stepped on anyone's toes, be gentle, mkay?

[ March 10, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Agent Orange ]
 

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Posted by chx (Member # 3388) on :
 
Welcome to Hatrack, Agent Orange!
 

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Posted by Armoth (Member # 4752) on :
 
Actually, Moses as a levite means nothing. Jews refer to themselves as the Sons of Israel, not as the Sons of Judah. Jew was just a title given to the nation at a later date...

btw - Orson Scott Card puts Rose the Nose in Ender's game who I believe is jewish. He speaks of the polemarchs or something as jewish, something about great jewish generals in Shadow puppets and Shadow of the hegemon...
 

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