of all the books ive read...all the authors in their books have had like theorys of this and that....and ive wondered...what if they were true? besides its in a book and no one bothered to proove it....so i read the ender saga and wondered...what if there were philotic connections...and maybe you could use them to communicate to people you love...like ive heard strories about how this husband and wife were miles away and he knew that she was in trouble...no warning or anythign and rushed home to find her in a burning building etc....is it possible that something like that exists??
Posted by captainmoriar (Member # 6416) on :
I am sure it is possible but then again many things are so it is really a question of how much information exists that proves or disproves their existance or the (non-)existance of something similar.
Posted by BattleSchooler06 (Member # 6279) on :
YES TY...thats what i was trying to ask but i coudlnt put it in the right words! how much information exists prooving or disprooving the thoery?? does anybody know anything about this....?
[ April 06, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: BattleSchooler06 ]
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
BattleSchooler06,
And, don't forget:
What about the time I was in Japan, and my wife in New York. I had this horrible prescient feeling wash over me, as if something incredibly bad had just happenedat home.
I called my wife, only to find that...
everything was OK. She was fine, the kids were fine, my dad was fine (that's all we've really got; we don't count her brother--for reasons I won't get in to here). Everyone was OK.
And then, there's the time I was in California on a business trip (a really great business trip, I might add: I was touring the Odetics robotics lab). Everything was just fine--everything felt just perfectly fine, and then I got a call from my wife...her father had just passed away.
So, don't forget: when you start talking about anecdotal coincidences, you should also include all the false positives and all the false negatives. The resulting numbers will be a bit more realistic. And if, at that point, you feel that there may yet be some underlying connection heretofore only dreamed of (but never to date verified) then, by all means, have at it!
--Steve
Posted by BattleSchooler06 (Member # 6279) on :
i dont mean to push into ur personal life...but what if something had happened to her brother (ur brother?) or maybe u were just sick?? i dunno it maybe just coincedence but its always nice to wonder Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Something's always happening to her brother. The only thing of note would be for him to change his state from living to dead (he's already done everything else), and that didn't happen.
All I'm saying is that interesting coincidences stand out because they're, well, interesting. We tend to forget the thousands (millions) of times when something could have happened, and didn't (or you "should" have sensed something, and didn't)--which would be the "false negatives."
We also tend to discount the false positives, such as when you sense a coincidence that really isn't (what are the chances that you'd meet up with a friend you haven't seen in a long time...at the house of a mutual friend?), or when you sense something's wrong (or right), and it really isn't.
Someone wins the $125 million lottery. What are the chances of that? One in 6 billion? Let's not forget the 5,999,999 people who didn't win the lottery! Or something like that.
--Steve
[ April 06, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: ssywak ]
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
quote: All I'm saying is that interesting coincidences stand out because they're, well, interesting. We tend to forget the thousands (millions) of times when something could have happened, and didn't (or you "should" have sensed something, and didn't)--which would be the "false negatives."
That reminds me of something I read in one of the books in the Ender/Bean series. OSC wrote about that in one of his books. Then again, he writes about everything in his books.
Posted by Kabederlin (Member # 6304) on :
The future is time enough for anything to be possible.
Posted by A Boy Named Tree (Member # 6382) on :
This one time, I was at school, and my math teacher was grading a test of mine that I just finished and, a horrible feeling washed over me, and I flunked a the test (64)....
-Tree
Posted by captainmoriar (Member # 6416) on :
quote:The future is time enough for anything to be possible.
Well with philotes and what they are as laid down in OSC's books they IMO can't really just be in the future. We are either made up of philotes and share connections with some people or were aren't. I don't think it would be possible to evolved from a non-philotic base to having our soul be a philote.
Posted by JaimeBenlevy (Member # 6222) on :
quote: This one time, I was at school, and my math teacher was grading a test of mine that I just finished and, a horrible feeling washed over me, and I flunked a the test (64)....
Umm...congrats?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
It is possible, because I've experienced something like that. I wonder if kything is possible.
Posted by T.J. (Member # 6267) on :
i had been going out with this one girl for like 3 years and like one day i had this really bad feeling then the next day her friends told me she cheated on me,
and yes i believe in the POSSIBILITY of philotes cause the thought of a universe without faster-than-light travel sickens me
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
I see what type of thread this one is turning out to be!
Later!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
One time, I was walking down the street with a friend of mine, having a wonderful time. Then, all of a sudden, I got this feeling like my friend was stabbing me in the back.
Turns out he really was stabbing me in the back. With a steak knife. Over and over!
I suppose you're going to try to tell me that *that* was a coincidence too, huh Steve?
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Noemon,
I couldn't say. Or, as they say in the South, "did you deserve to get stabbed in the back with a steak knife?"
What about all the times your friend was stabbing you in the back with a steak knife, and you didn't know it? Eh? Eh!?!
Posted by Kamisaki (Member # 6309) on :
All I have to say to that is: ouch, that must've hurt.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Philotic Theory is just essentially taking all these coincedences and call the connection Philots.
You could as easily call them Fictions as I always have. It is like an a graviton, the name for the unknown.
BC
Posted by AuroraPhage (Member # 7127) on :
Please excuse me for "beating a dead horse" but from what I have heard, a type of philotic transmission is possible, but only(as known to me so far) is capable of in Ansible like terms where one needs a special machine to do so. From what I've heard, it is possible to use electrons and split them, or use two electrons from the same atom, and they will do the same thing as philots, where if one vibrates the other will. Im not quite sure if this is true... but I've heard about it somewhere...
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
AuroraPhage, welcome to the forum. Philotic communication is speculative. But Card was extrapolating from current science into the future. There is quantum connectedness or quantum entanglement (QE) that links certain particles at a distance. But as far as I know, for technical reasons I don't understand so cannot explain, communication is impossible using QE. For web searches, try "quantum connectedness", quantum entanglement","bell's theorem or inequality" "Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen (EPR) paradox or effect" Here's a relatively straightforward explanation of the effect: http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~idmon/quant3.htm
quote: In 1936, he got together with Boris Podolsky and Nathan Rosen to create the "EPR paradox". It's ironic that the spooky EPR connection has now been used in the lab to teleport photons, because the original reason for inventing the EPR paradox was to show that one of the implications of quantum theory was so unacceptable that it must be wrong or incomplete in some respect. What the EPR trio couldn't accept was the idea that measuring a photon in one place could have an instantaneous physical consequence somewhere else -- all because quantum measurements are about probabilities.
If you don't understand, you are not alone. I have studied math and physics for years and I am baffled by it, along with almost anyone who has ever thought about it. Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
I don't know if it exists. I had, as most people, strange feelings that were revealed true, but people are right to say that it could be only coincidences. As a matter of facts, I guess I would like it to exist. I can feel the bond between me and my husband, for exemple, and I would find it extraordinary if I knew this bond had a physical existence. Posted by MorpheusX (Member # 7076) on :
I believe that Philip Pullman uses that same concept for his version of the ansible, the lodestone resonator in his "Amber Spyglass" book (book 3 of the "His Dark Materials" series.
Quote: The Lodestone Resonator uses the principle of quantum entanglement, as described by Tialys: "It means that two particles can exist that only have properties in common, so that whatever happens to one happens to the other at the same moment, no matter how far apart they are."
Seems like the Q.E./ philotic threads, no?
[ December 16, 2004, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: MorpheusX ]
Posted by JawnV6 (Member # 7182) on :
The explanation for the EPR paradox that i've always heard is like this (removes photons and all the physics): I have a dime and a nickel. I put a coin into a box, and give it to you. I keep the other one, and go off to Mars. Some time later, you open the box, and find the nickel. You know for a fact that I have the dime. There wasn't a transfer of information between us, but you still know that I have the dime. That's the best that I can do to explain it. You can't do anything with that information though.
This discussion also reminds me of a Philip K. Dick short story. Its set far in the future, and the basic premise is that science fiction writers are actually psychic, all of their stories eventually come true. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head, but it was in one of his collections.
Posted by Ramdac99 (Member # 7264) on :
Hey people, great discussion, here's my two cents, take it or leave it.
I'd like to describe a slightly more in-depth explanation of JawnV6's "dime in a box" example. It is basically a function of the "spin" of subatomic particles. The spin of these particles is varied, but the net spin will always equal zero. So if you have two particles, one with an "up" spin and one with a "down" spin, the net spin is zero. Now, consider separating these two particles by a great distance, combined, they will still have a net spin of zero. Now consider if humans had the ability to alter the spin of one of these particles. Regardless of the "distance" between the particles, the unaltered one would have to change spin to accommodate the new spin of the other "altered" particle. This is the closest thing I am aware of in current quantum theory to behave like an Ansible.
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