Hatrack River Forum: curious newbie =)

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Posted by back2you (Member # 6997) on :

did anyone else find the Ender saga religious ??.

I'm doing a Religion assignment based on the series and would appreciate any feedback and persepctives [Wave]

P.S i'm realli curious..did anyone cry [Cry]

during ender's game? coz i did! and all my friends think i'm weird..hahahah

[ November 03, 2004, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: back2you ]

Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :

question #1: YES

Question #2: yes

FG

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

Yes.
Yes.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Yes
No, but I felt bad.

Posted by Brian_Berlin (Member # 6900) on :

1. nah - just a good story
2. only during the Absalom scene in Enders Shadow (Bean's Account)

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

Well, I don't specifically recall crying in any specific book in that series, but OSC has made me cry many times, and probably at least once in that series.

The only specific time I can recall crying in an OSC book is in Folk of the Fringe.

Can anybody guess where? I was reading late at night, and I just started bawling. I woke up my wife, and I bawled for about half an hour. I don't think I've ever cried that much in my life.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

It's been too long for me to be able to pick out the place you're talking about Porter, but I think it's safe to say that whatever passage it was, it hit you a lot harder than it did me. I probaby read Folk of the Fringe more than 10 years ago. I think I'll put it on my short list of books to reread, just based on that one comment alone.

I think I may have cried at the Lost Boys novella, but I'm not sure.

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

You're probalby right. When I first read it at age 18, it didn't hit me that hard. But when I read it after I have three children of my own, that part of the story hit me like a load of Mac trucks.

I'll give others the chance to guess the part in the story before I reveal what it was.

Posted by AmryllisLorelei (Member # 6974) on :

Folk of the Fringe. I might indeed have cried at some point during the novel, but could I get your opinion on the last story in it? Personally, it's one of the few things Card has written that I really don't like. Speaking of religion in Card's work, I can definitely see it in that story and not in a way I like. Maybe I'm crazy for seeing it the way I saw it, but I can live with crazy [Smile]

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

The last story -- that was America, was it not?

I can't say that was my favorite story of his. It has some interesting stuff, but it bothered me too. As I try, however, I am somewhat at a loss to explain exactly why.

Posted by TheTick (Member # 2883) on :

*potential spoilers for Speaker/Ender's Game*

I always cry when reading Speaker for the Dead. Specifically, when the piggies realize that they had killed Pipo and Libo. I also get misty at the end of Ender's Game, with the hive queen 'speech' to humanity.

Posted by back2you (Member # 6997) on :

thanks ppl [Smile]

. I also cried during the Absalom scene in Enders Shadow (Bean's Account).

i've been searching other sites and i've realise that many people share the same view that they didn't like the religious incorportion to the ender saga.

I'm dont get why? [Dont Know]

wat do u ppl think?

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with religion and/or believe that it's for the unenlightened. Positive (or even just non-negative) portray of religion in science fiction is realtively rare, and has been since the inception of the genre.

Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :

Porter, I'm reading that now, and I'm only 2/3rds of the way through Pageant Wagon. So if it's past that, I don't know.

Spoilers:
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My guess, though, is the end of "Salvage", where people had been tossing tin cans into the temple with prayers etched into them. That part made me cry, anyway.

My other guess would be in "The Fringe" when the boys leave Carpenter in the wash as revenge for taking their fathers away.

[ November 03, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

It's not past that, and your guesses are wrong.

Keep trying!

[ November 03, 2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]

Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :

Spoilers
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Jamie's account of his younger brother and sister in "West"?

Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :

I don't think "Ender's Game" on it's own contains many religous overtones, but the Ender sequels (Speaker, Xenocide, Children) contain a lot more. Same with the Bean books.

I cried when reading Sister Carlotta's post-humus letter to Bean, but I can't recall any other times with Card's books in particular.

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I am dead serious -- I bawled for a full half hour when I read it this last time.

Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :

I took Sister Carlotta's death very hard, but one thing that occured to me at the time and that I then forgot was the fact that OSC seems to have a very good understanding of the Catholic Faith, more then the "You guy's worship the Virgin Marry!" that you get from most protestants. He sees how faith can make death an insignificant event to the faithful when compared to sin.

Admirable viewpoint since it says it is not the fact of death, which is inevitable, but the way of life which is chosen that is significant.

BC

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

Maybe that's because OSC isn't a protestant.

At least, I doubt he would consider himself one.

Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :

not really religious at all.

and did i cry in EG? No, but i cried in Red Prophet... curled up in a ball, my sleeping bag over my head, crying and shaking in fright... [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :

Somewhat, I guess.

The second time I read EG, after I had read all the other EG and ES books, I felt like my heart was being wrenched apart when Ender left home. I kept thinking, If only he could have stayed with Valentine. I think to some degree I fell in love with Valentine, as a character.

Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :

The Ender/Shadow series does indeed possess a religious aspect to it, I'm not certain where but I do believe it was Speaker for the Dead that made me cry somewhere. And damnit, I know theres a movie that gets me eevry time but I forget which one it was. Grr...

Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :

Now I remember, it was Schindler's List, the last scene there always got me when he says: "Two more people, I could have saved just two more people" It always got me.

Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :

You might be interested in what OSC has to say about that scene:

quote:
Spielberg got credit for his honest portrayal of the flawed Schindler. But that was as big a lie as every film made by Oliver Stone. The real Schindler got away with a box of diamonds. There could not possibly have been that over-the-top, monstrously false scene where Schindler weeps, "If I'd sold this diamond stickpin, I could have saved two more; If I'd sold this car, I could have saved ten more." Someday there might be a good movie made about Schindler.

Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :

Meh, it's the though that counts.

Posted by Katie DeShane (Member # 7026) on :

I've cried at various pages of various OSC works. Most memorable was the first reading of Lost Boys at the age of 20 years old. I have yet to have children but geez.. I bawled.

Religious conotations? Moreso than most people prolly would like in a science fiction novel, but so what? Beliefs are a part of every life, whether that person consciously believes in religion or not.

And sometimes you get someone like me, whose beliefs end up being shaped by those resources that I've come into contact with over the years. Much of what I believe is a direct result from having read so much of OSC's works. His novels (and not just the sf/fantasy ones either!) have single-handedly created the intellectual appetite that I've had to feed over the ten years since discovering EG in my English Lit teacher's dusty old bookshelf.

[Wave]

Hi! I'm a groupie that kinda got prodded into actually coming out and be brave enough to post here. [Embarrassed]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Welcome to Hatrack, Katie! [Smile]

Posted by Katie DeShane (Member # 7026) on :

Thanks rivka.. I've been in the shadows here since I got my old PC back in 2000 (four years this Christmas - wheee). I just always felt intimidated by this board and then I went offline for a year and finally decided to take action on words spoken to me.. so here I am [Razz]

~Katie~

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Offline for a year, and your profile says you're military. Were you overseas?

Posted by Katie DeShane (Member # 7026) on :

Some days I wish I had but most other days I'm glad I stayed stateside the entire four years (well 3.5 anyhow) I've been in. The year off was due to being a recruit in training.. boy was I ever glad for that to be over.. yet I oddly miss those days.

Hmm.. wonder if Ender and the rest ever had those days later in life? I relate moreso with EG series now that I have taken that path. It was always there waiting for me so yeah wonder if it was more than mere concidence for me to find this series then.. *goes off deep in thought*

Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :

'Salaam.'

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Welcome Katie--glad to have you on the forum. You sound like a nautral member of the forum. Hope to see you on the other side of the river.

Posted by Katie DeShane (Member # 7026) on :

Thanks peoples for the welcome.. I feel at home [Big Grin]

See ya around [Wave]

Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :

Lost Boys gets me every time. Sometimes Folk of the Fringe. Shadow Puppets. Not usually Ender's Game, though.

Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :

Welcome Katie and back2you. [Wave]

I agree with muppet, the religion aspect is far more noticeable in the sequels. In Enders's Game, it's more of an ethics question: when is extermination ethically allowed?

I cried at various parts, sentiment hits me hard when it's not mawkish and overdone. One of Card's virtues is writing powerfully emotional scenes without going overboard (usually.)

SHADOW SERIES SPOILER*********

I thought Sister Carlotta's death was the most moving part of the series.

[ November 19, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]