I've met other Ender fans that thought that it was some kind of scifi thing that only exists in science fiction but actually its an actual thing. The "First" Warsaw Pact was a military and economic alliance between Comintern (Communist International) countries esp. the eastern european countries and led by Moscow and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Now what I ask is this: Is it possible for a second such pact to form? I believe in my opinion and from what I understand of international politics. That it may evry well happen. Despite todays distrust and contempt of each other and espially Russia by most of the break away republics they will form it again in the face of either A) a common threat e.g the United States B) the economic and military reemergance of Russia forcing the break away republics and eastern european countries to see things their way C) A combination of both D) With the erosion of various economies by rising giants such as China and Japan other nations feeling threatened may try to band together inorder to ameiliorate the effects. E) All of the above.
What is your take on this people?
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
seems logical and possible whne i first think about it, but i'll really have to think about it before i can tell you what i really think, but it makes sense.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
quote:A) a common threat e.g the United States
Given that Poland is your greatest ally, no.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Consider that in the future the current political situation could very well be different, nothing is impossible.
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
this is aparently not a very popular thread, but i thought about it and i find no reason why sometime the second warsaw pact might cpome into existince. It would probably only come into existince in fact, but not in name.
quote: Given that Poland is your greatest ally, no.
to be fair, poland is our second greatest ally. Great Britain is our first. but poland not a very good second.
Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
define irony.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
A second warsaw pact could come around in name but do to changing politics it would probably be completely different in what it actually is. A second warsaw pact in the future could have alliances that we would never guess like russia and china or something.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Indeed, but I;m thinking along the lines of new Pan-Russian Hegemony from the North Sea to the Pacific, after all Russia may not be doing too well now but they'll make a comeback. For instance Card has descriped his Russia as a reemerging power because of Authoritan Generalspoliticians taking power etc. Vladimir Putin anyone? He could very well set Russia on the right track. Though Ukraine may be a problem.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:define irony.
I'll get around to that once I start to understand sarcasm.
Posted by Ramdac99 (Member # 7264) on :
Also, one must consider the fact that today Russia is a very different place than the post-cold-war-America-hating-Russia. It's hard to consider America a threat with all we've done to spread democracy. I feel that a "Second Warsaw Pact" would be more useful in uniting a group of Communist fringe countries into one rather than simply trying to assert authority in a world who's forgotten what it is like to fear Russian authority.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Spreading Democracy? Please remember that there is a difference between "spreading democracy" and "conquering countries who can't govern themselves"; a second warsaw pact could see America as slowly trying to assert itself as the de facto world authority and by unifying could help to keep America at bay, thats one line of reasoning. Course' a SWP could form because Russia recovered and forced the break away republics into an alliance.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Does a second warsaw pact have to be communist? I don't know enough about the first one to know. Could it be a group of maybe even democratic countries just united together against America?
Posted by Ramdac99 (Member # 7264) on :
let's be real here, do you honestly think the post U.S.S.R. break-away countries really pose an economic or military threat? Why would a Russian-led coalition even consider them, now a union between Russia and China might be a problem.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
For one Thing Russia would need the Ukraine inorder to have a warm water base, their only other naval bases are at Archangelisk (near northern finland) and in the Pacific and are frozen most of the year. Also most of the break away republics have one stragegic resource or another and possess a large amount of former soviet military Hardware and nuclear weaponry. Also theres the factor of manpower and industrial output, a "buffer" zone between other countries, and food grown in various eastern europeon countries. Also it doesnt have to be communist but it is a good possibility of it being authoritarian. If they can get Germany to join then they have the technical expertise of the german volk. The Baltic states can give more access to the baltic and belorus adds to the buffer zone, provides more agriculture and industry and remember that in the future these countries once recovered from the collapse of the USSR can be effective in other ways.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Questioning whether any country could be a threat seems silly and arrogant. I mean look at North Korea its a little, poor country and everybodies worried about the fact that they could have nuclear missiles that could reach the US. I think this shows that any country no matter how small or poor could pose a potential threat.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
Mr Peguin I salute you! Never misunderestimate the little guy!
Posted by Ramdac99 (Member # 7264) on :
quote: misunderestimate
awsome ^_^
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Ouch. Poland is a great ally isnt it? (I'm Polish) Firstly we help America in order to have some profit. Secondly we had to borrow some german planes in order to transport our forces to Iraq. We lost only 15 soldiers and Minister of National Defence is now speaking of retreating from Iraq (because of those losses). We are powerful. I read that support of your army in Iraq for two weeks is equal to our WHOLE national budget. We are great, really.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Nota bene Poland is a part of NATO, and although difficult to imagine we are closer to you than to CCCP, I mean, Russia In my opinion Russia's got very little to do with democracy. There's a state between Poland and Russia - Ukraine. I've been to one of its greates cities- Lwow, as a tourist, because it was Polish til 1945 or rather 1939 and it is very famous among Poles. It's been really a interesting trip. Poland is a member European Union (also very hard to belive) and is obliged to keep our eastern borders tight. It's been the greates queue I've ever been in. The further east the worst. Putin is so powerful as a one person, that it stops to be funny. Thanks God they've got no money, for the cold war would be back again. And Poland would suffer:) (I live about 400 km from nearest Russian nuclear missle silos probably )
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: The "First" Warsaw Pact was a military and economic alliance between Comintern (Communist International) countries esp. the eastern european countries and led by Moscow and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
Egad. You just made me feel very, very old. Ancient, in fact.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
In my opinion Russia's got very little to do with democracy. There's a state between Poland and Russia - Ukraine. I've been to one of its greates cities- Lwow, as a tourist, because it was Polish til 1945 or rather 1939 and it is very famous among Poles.