Hatrack River Forum: Please Help: Marcao's Age

This is topic Please Help: Marcao's Age in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

I got a student hooked on OSC's books ( [Evil]

), and she just finished Speaker and came to me with a question. Since my books are in storage and I don't remember the details in question, I told her I didn't know, but y'all would. [Big Grin]

(Any inaccuracies are likely due to my faulty memory.)

She said that Marcao was born in 1929 and died 1970 -- that should make him 40 or 41, right? But it said Novinha was not yet 40, and that she was older than Marcao.

Uh . . .

[ March 10, 2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]

Posted by Andrew (Member # 7502) on :

Ooh...I should know this...and I think I did at one point, but I probably forgot. Just bumping this up since it's a worthy question and I'm sure at least someone here knows.

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

The Os Venerados family tree shows that Novinha was born in 1931. During Ender's speaking he said Marcos was born in 1929 and died in 1970.

[ March 10, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

Dana and I both have copies of Speaker for the Dead. I can't find either copy. Darn moving! Darn moving to heck!

My copy is SIGNED!!! Where is it??!!!

[Cry]

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

By the way, the name is Marçao, isn't it?

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

quote:
During Ender's speaking he said Marcaos was born in 1929 and died in 1970.

*nod*

quote:
The Os Venerados family tree shows that Novinha was born in 1931.

But my student said that the book says something about Novinha defending Marcao -- who was YOUNGER than she was -- when they were in school.

Does it actually say that? Or did she misread?

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Bob, I think so. But I don't recall how to make the ç.

Posted by Andrew (Member # 7502) on :

She protects him...but I don't believe it says anything about age in that passage.

I'll check my book in a bit, once I decide to get up from resting.

Curse the flu!

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

quote:
"Some of you remember an incident," said the Speaker. "Marcos was maybe thirteen, and so were you."

quote:
"She's thirteen, isn't she?" Pipo to Dona Crista, after Libo described the incident.

Off the top of my head these are the only two places I remember seeing any mentioning of Novinha or Marcos' age.

Your student may be right though. Kids are good at picking up details like that (pesky kids). Why don't you ask her which chapter she got that information from?

[ March 10, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

But if he was born in '29 and she in '31, they couldn't have been 13 simultaneously either.

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

Well, I don't think Libo said when the incident took place.

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

*laugh* She'd probably object to being called a kid -- she's 17!

I'll ask her tomorrow what chapter it was.

Posted by arevoj (Member # 7347) on :

SftD - p. 45:

"And where she looked was into the eyes of the only other person in the room who was not watching Libo. The man was very tall, but very young - younger than she was, she realized, for she knew him: he had been a student in the class below her."

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Thanks, arevoj! [Smile]

Ok, so that's where it says Marçao was younger than she. Maybe she was just mistaken? Maybe even though he was behind her a grade he was actually a year or so older? It happens sometimes . . . [Dont Know]

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

I repeat, pesky kids. [Smile]

When Libo told Pipo about the incident, Libo was thirteen as well.

quote:
"If there's any man in Milagre who's caoable of accepting his thirteen-year-old son as a colleague, it's you" Dona Crista to Pipo. Chapter 1

quote:
"Now, without anyone asking his consent, a third person had been addeda cold and demanding person, who spoke to him as if he were a child, even though they were the same age." Libo's initial feelings about Novinha. Chapter 1

Posted by arevoj (Member # 7347) on :

As intelligent as she was, perhaps they skipped her through grade(s) so that even though she was in a higher grade, she was younger? Another possibility, I suppose.

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

So . . . Marçao actually was a year or two older than Libo and Novinha, both of whom were the same age? But was a year behind them (or at least her) in school, for whatever reason.

I don't remember the details of his disease, but might it have caused mental challenges when he was young? (I'm thinking it was asymptomatic that early, but can't really recall.)

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

I don't think he was mentally challenged. I like Arevoj's spin. Libo and Novinha held the two most important scientific posts in the colony. The fact that they skipped one or two grades is not surprising. [Smile]

Besides, from Novinha's perspective, everyone around her age is younger than her.

[ March 10, 2005, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

Good points. [Smile]

I knew Hatrack would know the answer! Thanks to all. [Hat]

Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :

You're good teacher rivka. [Smile]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

[Smile]

Thanks. I try.

Posted by Yozhik (Member # 89) on :

quote:
By the way, the name is Marçao, isn't it?

It's a less formal form of the name, I think, like Mike for Michael. His full first name is Marcos.

Posted by AntiCool (Member # 7386) on :

Marçao is incorrect. He was called Marcão, which comes from Marco, which means Mark. (Miguel is Michael.) Marcão is the augmented form of Marco, and means Big Mark. It is less formal than simple Marco.

edit: It's fun knowing Portugese when reading Card's books. [Razz]

[ March 11, 2005, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: AntiCool ]

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

I confess, I find Portuguese bewildering -- especially written Portuguese, where the little Spanish I know makes things more confusing, rather than less.

However, I did read the author's note, which told how to pronounce the names, and thus was able to correct the student in question, who didn't know how to say Novinha. [Wink]

(I didn't have a chance to speak to her today, but I teach her class on Monday.)

Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :

Debemos de hablar de cuan inferior es el idioma portuguese a la lengua bella, español. [Smile]

Ay, esperate--eso solo lo hacemos en el otro lado, no?

Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :

My student says thank you, and is quite amused. [Big Grin]

Posted by The Shelanman Himself (Member # 7581) on :

I believe it was spelled Marcão, but I can't find my book right now to make certain...

Posted by AntiCool (Member # 7386) on :

Um. Look at my previous post.