Hatrack River Forum: Shadow of the Hegemon question... beware of ***EXTREME SPOILERS***

This is topic Shadow of the Hegemon question... beware of ***EXTREME SPOILERS*** in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Trashcan_Man (Member # 7345) on :

Hello. I just started to read Shadow Puppets about 4 months after read Shadow of the Hegemon. Umm, Sister Carlotta died!?!? I thought it turned out she was still alive or something (im thinking of when the plane was shot, maybe something else happened). Anyway, please enlighten me.

Posted by Emily W (Member # 7504) on :

No, she died. Her plane was shot down and she did not walk away from the crash.

Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :

Spoiler on I either Shadow of Hegemon or Puppets, forgot which

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Darn Achilles... [Wall Bash]

[ April 19, 2005, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Mr_Megalomaniac ]

Posted by WigginWinning (Member # 7811) on :

She died in the plane crash over china.
Deader than dead...but hey, you know, dead's just that much closer to god, so there's that at least.

Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :

I know we've been conditioned by TV shows and movies where they can't afford to lose the star, but in my books, eventually everybody dies, and they almost never get to pick the time that they, or the readers, would prefer. I'm such an s.o.b. about that.

Posted by Trashcan_Man (Member # 7345) on :

I hate it when they just can't have the star die. The thing is that I thought Graff was in the plane with her. Guess not. [Dont Know]

"in my books, eventually everybody dies"

Okay, Ender himself dies halfway through Children of the Mind. How unpredictable is that??? Anybody?? [Big Grin]

Posted by Alistair (Member # 7858) on :

quote:
Okay, Ender himself dies halfway through Children of the Mind. How unpredictable is that??? Anybody??

Oh come on, I totaly saw that coming from a mile away . . . the second time I read the book.

Thats one of the things I love about OSC's books, characters are alowed to progress. Sister Carlotta dies, Virlomi goes completely nuts with power, all things I never would expect to see happen to main characters. I think that is what makes his characters seem so real.

Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :

quote:
Okay, Ender himself dies halfway through Children of the Mind. How unpredictable is that??? Anybody?? [Big Grin]

I'm gonna have to reread the sequels to Ender's Game... and probably reread Ender's Game while I'm at it...

Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :

OSC claims he's so heartless about these main characters, but we'd already been told by him first that Bean would die in Shadow Puppets, then that Bean would definitely die at the very beginning of Shadow of the Giant. And yet SotG is over, and still he lives.

Face it, OSC's just a big sentimental cream puff.

Posted by Syrjay (Member # 7706) on :

The unpredictability of who dies when is what we like. It's what keeps the stories interesting and real. It's also a quality I very much enjoy about George RR Martin's writing. You never know.

Just as in real life where you are not always wanting to get too close to someone for fear of them leaving you, you do not want to get attached to the characters because someone may die. However Card has such talent with developing characters you end up caring quite a bit.

While this is not the topic I have a few favorite qualities that Card has which sets himself apart from other writers, in my opinion of course:

The ability to develop deep complex characters.
The ability to understand human emotion and how to tell a story where he manipulates your emotions.
His understanding of how information affects mass populations.
His dissection of the underlying reasons for history.
And of course his appreciation to science fiction which we nerds/geeks love.

He has more but these are the favorites from the top of my head. [Hail]

Too bad he's such a raging homophobe... [ROFL]

[ April 21, 2005, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Syrjay ]

Posted by DaiTenshi (Member # 7759) on :

Oh, God . . . he is?

But . . .I can't . . . stop . . . KNEELING!!!

[Hail]

(Embodiment of Card)

Oh god . . .

Well, I kind of knew that Ender would die. It didn't really come as a surprise, because you have to think about Novinha, and how she needed the chance to give someone up, rather than have them taken away. Also, there really wasn't much purpose for Ender in the series anymore anyway, as Peter clearly pointed out.

Annnd, uhh . . . yeah.

Posted by DemonGarik (Member # 7793) on :

I like the fact that more and more authors are taking this tread. Everlasting characters just get boring after while. I have always enjoyed Card's books because they really are so unpredictable, but he goes back and explains why they were predictable, so he doesn't just kill for the sheer pleasure of it.
I for one, enjoy the chance to meet new characters and have the progression of old ones where they actually mature rather then remain static.

Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :

Ender dying didn't bother me so much as him dying without a direct heir. I know that enderpeter is the embodiment of ender in a new form but it still bothers me that Andrew Wiggin had no biological children. Made me sad. But in the end I too must...

BOW DOWN! [Hail]

(Embodiment of OSC)

Posted by Verai (Member # 7507) on :

I dunno. I think I could stand a billion more Dragonlance books (making their number seven billion).