Instead of spending the next weeks rereading my own old stories, I'm going to be lazy. There are people here who have read these books WAY more recently than me. Can you help?
For the Battle School Christmas book, I'm working with Dink Meeker. And I can't remember what I've specified about him in the previous books. I vaguely remember that he's Dutch. Is he? Or was that just a decision I made and kept in my head? Any specifics about why he got so cynical about the Battle School adults?
Anyway, any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to contradict anything I said about him in earlier books, as I work on the Christmas book.
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
From EG:
Kept an eye on Ender (so possibly on other promising students) (knew Ender was taking "personal attack classes").
Trained his toon independently from the rest of Rat army.
Has a reputation which extends to Launchies (Alai: "Dink Meeker is the best. I hear he's your toon leader.")
Promoted twice, but refused both times.
Was six years old when brought to Battle school.
Had a brother who was teaching him to play (basket?)ball.
Doesn't believe in the "bugger menace."
Dink's home is "in the Netherlands, with three generations under Russian hegemony."
I'll look for more stuff.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Also, when Ender just got transferred to Dragon Army, Ender went to the bathroom and Dink remarked to another student that Ender was so short that "he could walk through my legs without touching my balls. "An anonymous student replies it's "Cause you got none, Dink, that's why," I also know that Petra and Dink reprise the comment in Ender's Shadow when they meet Bean. Petra's remark implies Dink says that about everybody.
Also, Dink tells Ender that the world will treat Ender better because he is American like the teachers, while Dink is not. Definately some resentment there.
After practice one day, Ender watched Dink as he took off his flash suit and floated around in the battle room for about ten minutes to relax. Whether anything was under the flash suit is never explictly stated (but judging from the nudist tendencies of battle school, he could very well been completely naked).
Edit: got the book (for quotes and more info)
[ April 22, 2005, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: theamazeeaz ]
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Oh yeah, and his brother was a "normal guy," who was interested in girls as well as basketball.
Just curious, is the washout student, the old "bugger" of the launch that Ender eats one of his first meals with going to be in the book too?
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
His name was Mick.
Posted by Frangy. (Member # 6794) on :
I cannot remember from where he was coming.
He was not following the orders when they were stupid.
He could work perfectly with few people.
He knew everything what the teachers were doing, though not the reasons.
He was 6 years old when he starts the battle school
He knew that the children of the school of battle were going to be weapon in the Earth.
He was gliding when he was feeling that he was going crazy
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Wow. Good work, PM.
I reread Ender's Game last year and all I could remember was his last name and that he had a serious problem with authority.
Dink was kinda the "conscientious objector" of Battle School.
Posted by Frangy. (Member # 6794) on :
And he wasn't afraid of speaking about house
Posted by Eisenoxyde (Member # 7289) on :
theamazeeaz - Dink made that comment when Ender was tranferred to Salamander, not Dragon.
Jesse
Posted by Frangy. (Member # 6794) on :
Dink was present when Ender fought with Bonzo
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I think Dink is angry at losing his childhood.
"They decided I was right for the program, but nobody asked me if the program was right for me."
Also...
"I look in the library, I call up books on my desk. Old ones, because they won't let us have anything new. but I've got a pretty good idea of what children are, and we're not children. Children aren't in armies, they aren't commanders, they don't rule over forty other kids, it more than anybody can take and not get crazy."
He goes on to mention how everything they do creates craziness in the commanders...
Rose sleeps in the barricks because he's afraid of the dark.
Bonzo and his Spanish pride driving him to be the jerk he is and the hate he has fo Ender.
No one ever speaks of home becasue they have to be grown and tough with out the emotions of a child.
But... he loves the game and that's why he won't quit.
Also have to mention how he feels the bugger menace is just a ploy to keep the world in fear and keep power for the IF.
Of course he eventually breaks down and takes a command...
[ April 22, 2005, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Yeah you're right.
Dink was also the first one to mention the possibility of a civil war on Earth after the buggers were defeated. He also makes Ender stop and think about what the teachers' goals are, how they want everyone to be consumed with the game, and how the experiences of battle school students aren't typical of normal childeren. Dink seems to be focused on peoples motivations, and has his own hypotheses on the purpose of the school, and like Bean, he questions why the students are there.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
I think there could be some very interesting plot lines involving Dink around Christmas with the idea that he obviously with the theft of his childhood. Perhaps even a small exlpanation of some event that helped him change his mind about being a commander.
Posted by Miriya (Member # 7822) on :
Incidentally, it mentions in Ender's Game that it was in fact Ender who convinced him to play along and accept promotion to Commander.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Yes, well he does metion that Ender is the reason he's playing along when they speak in the commanders mess. But I think his response was more of a knee jerk reaction to Ender throwing back his own words at him about the game not being important. there is no explanation of why he feels Ender brought this change about.
When they spoke after practice Dink was very sincere about his hate for the adults and what they had done to him and the rest of the kids. But what really happened to cause him to change his mind.
I mean think about it. We really don't know what Ender did to convince Dink to be a commander. The only mention of it is that when Ender was 9 he was toon leader in Phoenix Amry and that Dink had finally accepted command and taken over for Carn. It's the beginning of the fourth section in chpter 9. Still no why.
I'm not saying we need more just that it is possible to have some explanation there. i still think there is the room even with dink having said Ender is why he accepted.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
quote: After practice one day, Ender watched Dink as he took off his flash suit and floated around in the battle room for about ten minutes to relax. Whether anything was under the flash suit is never explictly stated (but judging from the nudist tendencies of battle school, he could very well been completely naked).
This was so that "the crazy" that the teachers instilled in all of the students could come out of him and get sucked up by the walls, until the other little boys squish out the crazy during battles.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
He was close friends with Petra. I think they may have been in the same launch group. It seemed to me that what they had was the closest to a Battle School romance that you could have there. It was an unspoken assumption (on her part at least) that some day after Battle School they would get married.
Edit: He was also willing to accept new ideas, even if they didn't come from him. When he noticed that Ender attacked feet first, he insisted that the rest of his toon follow suit. It didn't matter to him that the idea came from some little kid, it just mattered that it could change the game in his favor.
Even though he refused to be a commander in name, he was the main reason that Rose the Nose was able to do as well as he did. He says in Chapter 9 (referring to Rose), "He doesn't know what he's doing. He's winning, but that scares him worst of all, because he doesn't know why he's winning, except that I have something to do with it."
[ April 22, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: MidnightBlue ]
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Dink also seemed to be somewhat conflicted over the buggers. At one point he tells Ender that he thinks that the "bugger threat" is probably a I.F. ploy to keep control over Earth. But then later when Bonzo is going to fight Ender he cries out that its the buggers that matter and if Bonzo hurts Ender than he is a bugger lover.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I think that he thinks he thinks the buggers aren't real, but in his heart he knows they are.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Or perhaps he is merely reaching out for something, anything, that will make Bonzo stop. After all, Bonzo may believe in the buggers, even if Dink doesn't.
Posted by NinjaBirdman (Member # 7114) on :
Some quotes about Dink from Ender's Shadow...
quote:No wonder a kid like Dink Meeker saw through it and refused to play. He was one of the few kids who was both likable and talented. His likability made them try to make him commander of his own army; his talent let him understand why they were doing it and turn them down because he couldn't believe in such a stupid system.
quote: Dink and Petra had been friends almost from their first beginnings in Battle School, and they were so senior to the others that no one tried to penetrate that closed circle.
quote: Petra began to cry, leaning against the wall. Bean wanted to reach out to her, but Dink was there. Dink was the friend who held her, comforted her.
Also: Dink was the one who took charge of the removal of the standings after Bean proposed to take them down, and was the oldest one in battle school after Dragon army was disbanded.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
I'd also go to say that Dink was the one that was able to teach Ender to be a leader and how to implement tactics. Petra taught him to shoot, and Bonzo taught him how not to command, but Dink did it right.
Dink is my favorite character, why did you guys have to get to this thread first!?
Nah, I'm just playing with you guys. But lets see what inferences I've made on Dink's character.
He is a bit of a rebel. If he can, he will work towards what he wants, not what they give him. I vaguely remember Dink going on hunger strikes and locking himself in his cabin (Right word?) when they tried to make him commander.
Dink was a very caring person, he cared for Petra, and he tried to help Ender when Bonzo attacked, he cares... really for people who do need to be cared for.
He was very smart, he knew not to just... go with the system... (Though I think that's been mentioned.)
[ April 22, 2005, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Vadon ]
Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
First time Ender went to the commanders’ mess, Dink came over and congratulated Ender.
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
What would he think about Christmas at Battle School? Would he think kids got gifts so that they would forget that they aren't normal kids and that they're training for war? Would he boycott it? He does seem to like rebelling. ("Hey, Santa Claus isn't real, and even if he was he wouldn't send stuff up to space! This is just another ploy by the teachers to make us crazy!")
Posted by Agnes Bean (Member # 7614) on :
quote:He was not following the orders when they were stupid.
Actually, that was Crazy Tom, which was why he was always on transfer lists.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Dink asked for Ender to be transferred. He was known as the "power behind the commander" and said that Rose the Nose's strategy was not what was winning him the battles - it was Dink. Dink apparently recognized Ender's brilliance and like a good commander did what he could to get that brilliance transferred to him.
He did indeed have his toon practice the feet first attack, but Ender was surprised that Dink didn't understand the reason why the orientation and feet first approach was important.
Posted by olhando (Member # 7866) on :
i havnt exactly read all the other replys but i will tell you what i remember. when he first met ender he was always talking about how the teachers keep on making it harder for them and that they wanted him to be a comander but he just wanted to be a toon leader. his toon in slamander was special maybe? not quite like the special dragon toon but i believe one time it said that when he was in bonzo's or carn's army that whichever comander didnt understand why they where winning. and the reason was dinks toon. i like to say his name a lot really fast.
Posted by olhando (Member # 7866) on :
oh yea nvm it was rose's army Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
The problem as i see it is that many people are looking at what Dink became, not what he was before. Like was mentioned, his cmoonet about how ender could walk through his legs without touching his balls was said about bean as well. This implies that he's not found of noobies. So he was probably treated like that as a noobie. You know how the whole "now it's my turn to torment the younger ones" goes. I think he was probably one of the quicker ones in his launch, but not the quickest.
OSC, i feel weird addressing you directly like this, just because i have set you up on a pedestool and you seem untouchable to me, but the way i see it, you can write Dink however you want to. Yes, he is Polish, and has, as Papa pointed out, and older brother who was showing Dink how to play Basketball.
The two things that are evident thoughout all of the mentions of Dink are this. 1) He has no regard for authority and pretty much does what he wants, and 2) He is the jealous type
I must be honest, i don't know how i can call myself a full blown OSC fan when i haven't even read SotG, so if there is any mention of Dink in there, i have no idea.
I hope i was of some help.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
We are ALL the jealous type <grin>.
I already know exactly what Dink will do in the Christmas story - that's not in play. I just need to make sure that I'm true to the person he will become in Ender's Game. And I truly believe you have given me that information. Especially the references to his previous life - growing up, the brother, etc.
This story I'm writing now will mark the BEGINNING of his rebellion against authority, his lack of trust in what people say to him at Battle School.
But it's good to remember that Petra MUST BE THERE. I had not thought to include her in the story. But I have to. So ... thanks!
Unless somebody can find something that is NOT already mentioned here, this job is done - and THANK YOU!
Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
Yes, Dink, There is a Santa Claus.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
One important thing to remember, also, is that while Dink is an excellent leader and quick to adapt, he is not particularly inventive as a tactician. He adopted Ender's use of the feet-first attack as soon as he saw Ender using it, but never would have thought of it himself. As it is, he doesn't immediately grasp the real strength of the tactic (that it mentally reorients the soldiers into a "falling" mode than a straight-ahead charge) either, only picking up on its visible effect (the "shielding" provided by the soldier's legs).
I think Shan is the only one that mentioned this, but it's a fairly important aspect of Dink's character that comes into play later, when the Jeesh is assembled at Command School. Ender notes that Dink "deftly carried out instructions but was slow to improvise": in essence, Dink is the ideal second-in-command, but doesn't have the strategic awareness and insight of Ender or Bean.
[ April 23, 2005, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Tarrsk ]
Posted by ChaosTheory (Member # 7069) on :
Not really exactly about Dink, but if he's dutch then He'll have waited for the Dutch Sinterklaas (Santa Klaus) who would put candy in the shoes of good children who left them by the fire place, and if you are bad he'll put you in his "zwarte piet's" bag and take you away to Spain, or he'll give you "the rod" instead of presents.
Posted by Suri-cool (Member # 7599) on :
It also seems he loves his flash suit. I mean not to repeat the others not the game thats why he dosn't leave that all. But the suit I just got that feeling that he loved the suit.
Posted by Elise (Member # 7898) on :
Adding to ChaosTheory: If Dink is dutch he would definetely have waited for Sinterklaas and would have felt very sad for approx. 3 weeks before he received christmas gifts (Sinterklaas is celebrated at the 5th of december). If Dink is dutch his brother would probably have played soccer instead of basketball.
Posted by Jasmine (Member # 7370) on :
i thought he was danish. wasn't Dink the one who took off his flashsuit to float around in the battleroom or something? i thought he hated the suit. ah well
Posted by Tater (Member # 7035) on :
I know a lady named Bernice who everyone calls Dink. She's fun.
Posted by X12 (Member # 5867) on :
Are we to assume that this is a "pre-Ender" story, Senior OSC?
Stuff I noticed while skimming.
quote:Petra followed him [Bean] in, with Dink holding her hand.
quote:"It's crazy down there. Who cares?"[says Dink, addressing Ender]
quote:"Nothing was wrong with any of us that five days of cowering in blackened-out rooms wouldn't cure."
Kinda pesimistic.
quote:Dink, who deftly carried out orders but was slow to improvise
ermm.. all for now.
Peace, Aphotic
Posted by Alistair (Member # 7858) on :
I haven't seen this mentioned here (my apologies if I missed it) but was not Dink the leader of the first army that Dragon defeated? I'm sure this in and of itself will have no bearing on the Christmas story as it is taking place long before, but Dink was also the only leader to be so gracious about his defeat by Ender. Even Petra hated Ender for a while after he destroyed Phoenix army. I think this says a lot about Dink's character, he may have rebeled against authority and been insubordinate in general , but he also recognized brilliance and not only did he not begrudge it, he respected it.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Sorry Alistair but that was Carn Carby with rabbit army I believe not Dink. That is why Ender adds him to his mental list of people that qualified as a human being after the battle he already knew Dink. -Penguin
Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
Remember the Bonzo scene? Dink Meeker was trying to prevent Bonzo and his gang from harming Ender. However, what did Dink do after the door was slammed in his face? Did he try and contact the teachers? Was he ignored? Or, perhaps - Dink's hatred towards the teachers prevented him from talking with them, even in such dire circumstances?
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
As I recall they hit Dink with the door and made him go unconcious... I'm going to check.
Found it.
quote: "If you touch him you're a buggerlover!" cried Dink. "You're a traitor, if you touch him you deserve to die!" They jammed Dink's face backward into the door and he was silent.
[ April 30, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Vadon ]
Posted by Beanny (Member # 7109) on :
Oh, I see now. From some reason, when reading, I saw "jammed the door in his face" and not vise-versa. There is definitely a difference between the two cases... Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
I think that's how I've always read it too.
[ May 01, 2005, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: MidnightBlue ]
Posted by Alex Lin (Member # 7667) on :
One last thing that no one's mentioned (I don't think).
Somewhere in the Shadow series (toward the end of Shadow of the Hedgemon I think) Petra gets to thinking about the people she loved/cared for, and thinks about Dink for a while. She remembers thinking that at Battle School he had seemed like the cool, composed rebel-type; but in Command School they had a chance to get to know each other better and he ended up just being a cocky guy that thought he was better than he really was. Somewhere along the way the fact that he wasn't all too inventive gets mentioned. Also, he got really jealous of the time that Petra spend with Bean, but that was due to hormones mostly. And we know that he never really forgot about how Petra was a girl, and also that she was the first one to break when fighting against the Buggers.
I think that's everything, but I'll look for the passage later and see if I missed anything.
Posted by Shanee (Member # 7943) on :
This is along the lines of what Alex Lin just said but yes it is mentioned somewhere that although the others treated Petra differently after she broke it caused a unbreachable wall to form between her and Dink. I interpert that as inability to accept defeat...but maybee I'm misinterperting. Anyway, hope I helped
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