Did anyone else subconsciously assume that Byron(from the first chapter) was white? I was surprised when Byron explictly called himself black. Even when he mentioned his black wife, I just thought it was an interracial marriage.
To be clear, it's not like I consciously said to myself 'Byron is white'. But I just assumed it. Maybe it's because I can't remember reading a novel that didn't have a non-white protagonist. Maybe I just need to read more...
But yeah, just wondering what other people thought.
(Btw, I love Magic Steet so far and can't wait till it comes out.)
Posted by dspeyer (Member # 758) on :
I did assume that it was an interracial marriage between the third and fifth paragraphs, until Byron's internal monologue described himself as "an African-American professor of literature specializing in the romantic poets". Realizing that he was black as well also changed the way I thought of the "Black woman who thinks she's Italian" remark -- when I thought that Byron was white it seemed like a rather dismissive way to think about his wife but once I realized he was black too it seemed more like a warm appreciation of his wife's oddities.
I don't think this is something Card should fix though -- we're talking about 2-3 paragraphs of confusion in the course of what will probably be a 200-300 page novel. Some authors would solve this problem by giving me a detailed description of the setting, the characters and so forth before letting them do anything, but I prefer Card's style of dumping me in the middle. Actually, one of the things I really like is watching a good author casually drop the important pieces of information without breaking the narrative flow. Card is really good at this -- that's why we know Byron's race in the fifth paragraph and don't have to wait several pages.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
I never assume anything about the looks of a character until something is stated-- at least, not if it's dealt with in the first chapter or so. I don't see a problem here.
Posted by dropofTapioca (Member # 7867) on :
I don't think there's a problem, either. I just thought it was interesting that I subconsciously assumed Byron was white. Why? Because I am not white, so the fact that I assume that a protagonist is not of my race hints of disturbing. Although I haven't decided if it is...
Maybe my assumption isn't that surprising. After all, from what I've read of OSC's works the majority of his protagonists are white, and so for my brain to assume that Byron is also white is a fairly good calculation, based on past evidence at least.
This is NOT a knock on OSC. In fact, I remember reading in these forums(couldn't find exact post) that he has specifically avoided writing a black protagonist because he might portray him/her incorrectly, which sounds reasonable. And I also recall that someone volunteered to help him out with that aspect. So maybe Magic Street is a result of that.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
The name Byron associates closely with "dead white guy" for me, so it makes sense that you'd think he was white.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
I wasn't trying to trick anybody - I got the information out as soon as it was plausible in his point of view.
But you're right - if you assume one way, then his reference to his wife feels slighting, while the other way it's endearing. As always, it depends on who's speaking! <grin>.
Probably the BIGGEST reason you assumed that the protagonist was white was because the AUTHOR is white, and consciously or not, there is a widespread tendency to assume the author and the protagonist are similar. Come on, is there anyone left who doesn't see Spenser as looking like the picture of Robert Parker on the back of the book jacket? <grin>.
There is a "free space" at the opening of a story where you simply can't have told all the relevant information, so the author is allowed to have some information, not so much withheld as prioritized. It was more important to place him there at that intersection in Santa Monica, with the homeless guy and the motorcycle babe, than to know about his family - partly because Byron himself is NOT central to the story (though not minor, either), and partly because the homeless guy and the motorcycle babe are absolutely central figures.
Anyway, it's cool that you mentioned your response like that. Not as a problem to be fixed, but as a simple observation on the way we order stories to place them in our brains.
Look, how long has it been since you last read a book aimed at the general audience where every character who actually speaks a line is either black or of unspecified race? The book is not remotely ABOUT race or racial issues, it is simply set within a subset of American black society. But that is extremely rare in publishing except for the fairly recent genre of popular novels aimed at the African-American audience. And there, the intention is to have almost entirely BLACK readership. This book is meant to cross over, to have readers of any race read it as simply a story about people in This Culture doing These Things. We'll see if it works - if white readers will, in large numbers, accept reading about not just a black hero, but black EVERYBODY.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
The baby throwing thing reminded me of Seventh Son. That, and "Peasant's Quest."
Posted by Audeo (Member # 5130) on :
I also assumed he was white at first, and wasn't sure how to react to his statement about having a black wife who like Italian food. I think the reason why most authors won't write a book about a character from a culture different from his own (unless he's making up the culture) is that he is not confident enough in his ability to understand that culture. He opens himself up to critcisms from people who are from that culture, not that that should prevent him, from what I've read so far Magic Street is a great book, but I don't feel qualified to comment on the authenticity of it either.
Posted by Eisenoxyde (Member # 7289) on :
YEAH!!!! Another person who loves Strong Bad! Peasant's Quest is so funny.
[ April 24, 2005, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Eisenoxyde ]
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"Look, how long has it been since you last read a book aimed at the general audience where every character who actually speaks a line is either black or of unspecified race?"
Careful. If LeGuin's experience is any indication, the TV miniseries cast of Magic House will be all lily-white, with the exception of one elderly mentor character.
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
I have to say I was a little apprehensive about the black POV characters when I was reading, and the dumb thing is it never crossed my mind when I read "Saints" or any of the many books in which Card has a female POV. Or a gay POV. Or a POV character who is otherwise not OSC.
There were a couple of spots that seemed a little too "ebonics" to me, but there were probably more that I didn't notice. And while I also thought Byron was white until he mentioned it, I'm glad the novel didn't start with "Byron gripped the steering wheel with his ebony fingers".
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
I guess I assumed Byron was black, because I've kept up with OSC's interviews or whatever about this book and I knew he was working on a "crossover" book. Also, I read too fast to make assumptions before the writer reveals what he wants on the first page.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote: I'm glad the novel didn't start with "Byron gripped the steering wheel with his ebony fingers".
Amen to that!
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Byron looked at the cyclist, a woman dressed all in black leather, her face completely hidden inside a black plastic helmet. The blank faceplate turned toward him, regarded him for a long moment, then turned to the front again.
...and I couldn't read that paragraph without picturing ElJay..... Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Wait a minute. Spenser doesn't look like the picture on the back of the books? But he's got the dog and everything!
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
No. Spenser looks like Robert Urich. Where have you been?
It IS scary to write entirely within a contemporary black community - one that really exists! But I had friends who could help vet the manuscript to avoid solecisms. And lots of help from Roland Brown, who started this whole project, prior to writing a word. He gave me name lists, for instance, so I gave people believable names for their age group. Heck, he told me that Baldwin Hills EXISTED. How else would I have even gone there to SEE the site of that drain pipe?
The original plan was to have a white family move into the neighborhood, but I quickly realized that if I did that, THEY would be the heroes OR it would be about black/white relations, and I wasn't interested in either of those. So I tossed out the white family (they were boring anyway, you don't miss them) and made it take place entirely within black culture.
And I can promise you, this will NOT be made as a movie unless the contract specifies that EVERY character will be played by a black actor.
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)