Hi, before anyone suggests it, I have read just about everything on the 'Uncle Orsons Writing Class,' and actually, this question is related to the one covered on the trademarks/plagiarism topic. On with the question...
If I am writing a fantasy book, and I wanted to make direct references to a poem, say... "The Hollow Men" by T.S. Eliot... and by direct references I mean to sort of say things in my story that are from the poem; - such as refer to somthing as "Death's dream kingdom," or "This is the way the world ends.." ect. well, am I allowed to do that? Or do I have to get permission from whoever owns those works now? Or do I just have to footnote it? The story doesn't absolutely depend on those references, but they sure add to it. Im pretty sure you have not answered a question regarding this topic specifically, so thanks if you (or anyone else knowledgable) can help me.
And since I've never posted here before, let me just formally say Hello to everyone. I've been lurkin' here for awhile and you're all so great.
Thanks, -leaf
[ April 24, 2005, 03:16 AM: Message edited by: Leaf ]
Posted by MidnightBlue (Member # 6146) on :
Hi! Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
What you're proposing is called "allusion" and you are absolutely free to do it. In fact, that's one of the signs that a writer's works have penetrated the culture - that other writers feel free to allude to it without citation. You don't even need to point it out, since the pious assumption is that all educated readers will know exactly where the allusions come from.
When it becomes complete sentences, however, or complete thoughts, then it become necessary to cite it, either by mentioning the source in the body of the text, or citing the source in the acknowledgements. (In Hyperion, Simmons could cite Keats directly, since his future world included Keats and all his works; but in a medieval fantasy, you couldn't have people referencing T.S. Eliot, because presumably the novel takes place in a world where he never existed; so you'd cite HIM in the acknowledgements.)
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: If I am writing a fantasy book, and I wanted to make direct references to a poem, say... "The Hollow Men" by T.S. Eliot... and by direct references I mean to sort of say things in my story that are from the poem; - such as refer to somthing as "Death's dream kingdom," or "This is the way the world ends.." ect. well, am I allowed to do that? Or do I have to get permission from whoever owns those works now?
To make a long story short, what you're describing seems like it would fall well within the boundaries of permissible allusion.
Posted by Leaf (Member # 7880) on :
Golly, thanks... you guys are the greatest-
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Well, sure we are. Now that Jackie Gleason is dead and Mohammed Ali has retired from the ring.
Posted by Jenny Gardener (Member # 903) on :
On a related note, I've been thinking of doing some poetry related to sci-fi worlds. I'd like to immerse myself in the worlds and then write poetry as if I were someone in those worlds. And then see if I can Sell the poems. (I've noticed a dearth of good sci-fi poetry). What would be the ethics of such, and could it be pulled off?
Posted by Joshua Newberry (Member # 7864) on :
Jenny, if you can find a place to BUY your poetry, please please please pass on the publication.
Most literary journals seem to offer to publish, but not for payment. Such is the life of a published poet.
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)