quote:

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do you remember the dialog from troy... rancid!!

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Also, maybe you should look up what a director does and what writers do.
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 
The dialogue usually doesn't come from the director.
 

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Posted by CiceroJefferson (Member # 8060) on :
 
Enders game is one of the greatest books of all time. please, it will already be a difficult movie to make with all the child actors we need a good director with talent to pull this off. we do not need a man who directs like George Lucas.
 

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Posted by CiceroJefferson (Member # 8060) on :
 
directors influence the script... plus they also determine how the actors say the lines
 

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Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
 
Have you read what OSC said about Troy?
 

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Posted by DemonGarik (Member # 7793) on :
 
Lets be honest, we need a director who can do space... Close Encounters of the Third Kindish,

but we also need a director who can make us connect with a little boy... maybe AIish...

we also need a director who can make battle scences look cool, say Top Gun/Starship troopers type battles...

Personally, I vote Spielberg
 

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Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
 
I vote Cleese. For everything!

Nah, not the type. How about Schwimmer?

Nah, not the type. How about Hook?

Nah, not the type. How about... about...

WE NEED OSC HIMSELF TO WRITE THE SCRIPT AND DIRECT!
 

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Posted by Gryphonesse (Member # 6651) on :
 
there was dialog in Troy? I never got past Brad Pitt's nekkid arse...


 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Cicero, have you seen Das Boot? Neverending Story?

If you haven't seen BOTH of those, then go out and rent them before you say a single word about Wolfgang Petersen's ability.
 

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Posted by AutumnFire (Member # 7320) on :
 
"The dialogue usually doesn't come from the director."

Yes, unless that director happens to be George Lucas: "the sand is hard and rough, not like your skin: it's smooth and beautiful"...

Oh. God.

Yes, sane directors do not write dialogue.
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Actually, I think that line, coming from a kid who'se been emotionally repressed since before he went through puberty, and who before his emotional repression was physicaly oppressed on a Planet Filled With Sand, talking to the one person who makes him forget his history and emotional repression - I think that lines makes perfect sense.

You may not have said it, you'd groan oif you heard someone else said it - but for Anakin, that line felt like something he would say.
 

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Posted by Carl Conrad Coreander (Member # 7851) on :
 
Go Talcon! The Neverending Story was great! Well, it was weird...and actually that was also based on a book and it left out a LOT of the book... But I still loved it even if it DID leave out many of the main ideas.

Say, did he direct Air Force One also?
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Yep. And The Perfect Storm, Enemy Mine, In The Line of Fire, Etc.
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
Das Boot was pretty good. I mean, the guy can make you love Nazis.

I'm curious as to how much sway the casting folks have in a production. I mean, anyone remember the early trailers of Troy pitching the greatest warrior who ever lived, and then "BRAD PITT" appears on the screen? I mean, if someone is just woefully miscast... it's just hard. I mean, how do you kick Brad Pitt off a film, once he has been won? I didn't actually see Troy, but I'm sure everyone was just making the best of a bad situation at that point.

P.S. Dude, I'm barely coherent. I should really go back to bed.
 

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Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
The attitudes toward Wolfgang Petersen and toward Troy expressed here are kind of strange. Wolfgang is one of the most respected directors in the industry - both by money people (his films make money) and by artistic types (his films are brilliantly conceived).

No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy. It was a powerful evocation of another era. My wife and I saw it twice in the first few days - it was powerful, entrancing. The writer, director, and actors achieved the sense of a heroic, semi-civilized era and captured the tone and feel of the world of the Iliad (while leaving out the gods).

Meanwhile, you also don't understand how Hollywood works. Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached. What some folks don't seem to grasp is that the ONLY reason Warner Brothers picked up the Ender's Game movie project was that Wolfgang was attached. If Wolfgang were not the director, THERE WOULD BE NO PROJECT. We'd still be going begging to the studio doors. Wolfgang, not I, is driving the project. That's how Hollywood works, when it works at all.

The very fact that the alternative proposed was a director like the one who did "Close Encounters" shows amazing insensitivity to what would make Ender's Game work. Take a look at Hook, for instance, or the false and dishonest over-the-top ending of Schindler's List ... you want a director who can't bear a tough ending? A director who has no understanding of character? I'd rather NOT see Ender's Game be nothing but a special effect-driven extravaganza, thanks ...
 

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Posted by TrapperKeeper (Member # 7680) on :
 
Change of subject, how IS the project progressing?

The page the hatrack homepage links to hasn't updated in a while.
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
"No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy."

Hm. I found the dialogue clumsy, the acting alternately wooden and hammy, and the scenes poorly-paced. It just failed for me on every level.
 

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Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
 

quote:

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Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached.

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So you don't have any say in what actually appears on screen?
 

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Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
 
I actually like Peterson, have u seen Outbreak ?
 

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Posted by Haloed Silhouette (Member # 8062) on :
 
Easy for you to talk, Peter. You like the name!

Why can't OSC direct it himself? He's practically good in everything. Poems, books, short-stories, plays, music, films... Does it really make a difference regarding OSC?
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
You really have no idea how the film industry works, do you Haloed?
 

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Posted by Portabello (Member # 7710) on :
 
Haloed, did you even read OSC's post?
 

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Posted by Libo (Member # 8068) on :
 
I actually enjoyed Troy, going into it with preconceived notions of it being horrible. Watching the 1st half hour I found myself totally immersed into the movie, the story & setting alone had me.
I'm not too concerned with Peterson's ability to direct, i wonder how his casting of Ender will turn out
 

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Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
 
I maintain that it's a shame this project never sees the light of day on a screen nof OSC's own direction. As an H-wood blockbuster, likely not. As a creative alternative, flocked-too, by certain fans, prolly good.

eh *shrug*

I dig the books, though the "shadow" motif wore-out a couple books back.

alluvion
 

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Posted by Lock and key (Member # 8073) on :
 
wait a sec, let me get this strait, someone is thinking of making a EG movie! this is just my opinion but that may be a bit of a challenge.

one: the kids age about 6-7 years(If I remember correctly) from the time they enter battle school to the end of the wars
two:(relating to one) the actors may have to sign on for life of they go one to make the next books. Mainly the "Shadow" books
three: you will nee some very young talent for the characters.

don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the Enders Game movie . it will be interesting to see. quite a challenge it will be. OSC better be on set for some of the filming.
 

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Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
1. We compress the action of the book to one year, and the youngest of the characters (Bean) is about nine or ten.

2. It's very hard to work with child actors, but it can be done, as witness the stellar performances of every child actor in Peter Pan and Neverland.
 

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Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
 
darn.
 

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Posted by Jacob Calder (Member # 7945) on :
 
I haven't seen Troy, so maybe my opinion would change, but I think the Ender's Game movie is very lucky to have such a big time director attached to the project. Any movie Peterson directs is a potential blockbuster. That gives Ender's Game the budget it needs to tell the story properly, and hopefully Peterson is trusted enough to deliever a blockbuster, he'll have more freedom from the studio.
 

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Posted by Lock and key (Member # 8073) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
1. We compress the action of the book to one year, and the youngest of the characters (Bean) is about nine or ten.

2. It's very hard to work with child actors, but it can be done, as witness the stellar performances of every child actor in Peter Pan and Neverland.

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quote:

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any plans for "enders shadow" movie
I realise the Xenocide and those books would probaby be easyer

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quote:

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Hm. I found the dialogue clumsy, the acting alternately wooden and hammy, and the scenes poorly-paced. It just failed for me on every level.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
The attitudes toward Wolfgang Petersen and toward Troy expressed here are kind of strange. Wolfgang is one of the most respected directors in the industry - both by money people (his films make money) and by artistic types (his films are brilliantly conceived).

No one here has actually given a coherent reason why ANYTHING is wrong with Troy. It was a powerful evocation of another era. My wife and I saw it twice in the first few days - it was powerful, entrancing. The writer, director, and actors achieved the sense of a heroic, semi-civilized era and captured the tone and feel of the world of the Iliad (while leaving out the gods).

Meanwhile, you also don't understand how Hollywood works. Writers don't "pick" directors. The only power I had was to veto the ones who would have been horrible. Beyond that, we looked for directors who found the project interesting, who were on the short list of those capable of directing it AND of getting a studio to back the project with that director attached. What some folks don't seem to grasp is that the ONLY reason Warner Brothers picked up the Ender's Game movie project was that Wolfgang was attached. If Wolfgang were not the director, THERE WOULD BE NO PROJECT. We'd still be going begging to the studio doors. Wolfgang, not I, is driving the project. That's how Hollywood works, when it works at all.

The very fact that the alternative proposed was a director like the one who did "Close Encounters" shows amazing insensitivity to what would make Ender's Game work. Take a look at Hook, for instance, or the false and dishonest over-the-top ending of Schindler's List ... you want a director who can't bear a tough ending? A director who has no understanding of character? I'd rather NOT see Ender's Game be nothing but a special effect-driven extravaganza, thanks ...

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quote:

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from aintitcool post:
as i read the story, that was a huge part of ender's growth--his isolation--and to be sure, a year is a long time to a small child, but it wouldn't chip away at his SELF as much as was needed in such a time.

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Not that it will change anything, but he's got a point
 

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Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
 
Hey Shindlers list was good. I cried at the end!
 

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Posted by signine (Member # 7671) on :
 
To the guy who asks why OSC doesn't direct it himself:

I've got a fair amount of experience in how hollywood works from frequently 0 to 1 degrees of seperation. I've worked on a couple projects and heard more than enough about people working on other projects. Suffice to say directing a play and directing a feature film are VASTLY different things, nevermind the fact that directing a feature film is one of the biggest undertakings you can shoulder in entertainment. The amount of knowledge, connections, time, political ties, etc, you have to have to get it done well and get it done right are pretty staggering.

First, you have to know how to shoot a movie. Think it's as simple as pointing the camera at the subject and rolling the film? Nope. Think about how insanely complex professional photography is, using light meters, etc etc etc. Now imagine you can't use a flash and you're shooting 24 shots per second, with tied in sound.

Secondly, the director is the director. They're also responsible for getting the cast and crew together, building the budget, making sure catering arrives on time, making sure they have the film permits for the location their shooting at, making sure the union reps for the film crews are happy, etc etc etc etc.

In other words, it's not as simple as telling the actors what to do in each shot and overseeing the final edit. The best directors are the ones that have done it forever, and there's a reason you almost never hear of an unknown director making a blockbuster feature film.
 

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Posted by shadyn (Member # 8081) on :
 
I haven't seen Troy or any of the movies mentioned but I didn't think children were allowed to have film dialogue until they were at least 7 years old? Or is that just a TV rule. If that is true I would think that would narrow the ages and the available actors down even more
 

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Posted by Exploding Monkey (Member # 7612) on :
 
Das Boot baby! WP did Das Boot! What else do you need?!
 

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Posted by OniShiro (Member # 8082) on :
 
Wolfgang Petersen can be a fantastic director for Ender's Game, as long as he goes back to his old sensibilities, The Neverending Story and Enemy Mine are great movies where you really care about the characters, whereas in Troy you don't care at all about them.

So please, please, please, OSC watch Enemy Mine and tell Wolfgang to use that sensibility that he's lost in his last movies to make us care about Ender, Bean, and the rest of characters.
 

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Posted by Exploding Monkey (Member # 7612) on :
 
I noticed Ridey Scott has the same problem. His early stuff was great but his current films (while still entertaining) do not hold up as well.

TNS and EM are great flicks. Those are two I need to add to my library. I still think Das Boot is Peterson's best work though.

I think as long as Card stays close to Peterson durring production that both of their creative abilities combind will turn out a great movie.
 

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Posted by The Mariner (Member # 8083) on :
 
When I first heard about Wolfgang I thought he'd be perfect because of Neverending Story. A man who cares about fantasy and can direct children well. The performance he got out of Barett Oliver is just the kind of naturalistic/not cutesy perf we need out of Ender. Ender is not a cereal box hawker, he's a repressed genius kid. He's got problems. OSC, I think invoking the acting chops of the Peter Pan kids isn't helping, but we see what you mean. Though I wasn't the hugest fan of "Butcher Boy," it's young performances like that which point us in the right direction. Going the naturalistic route to find a Keisha Castle-Hughes, or the young stars of Ratcatcher and other smaller films is in my opinion the way to go. Every once in a while a commercial star like Dakota Fanning comes along, but not often. Peterson's ability to make things gritty (Das Boot) could make this more than another antiseptic, pristine, Star Trek-looking, CGI schlockfest. With the respect books with enormous followings have gained as a result of LOTR and HP, etc., Ender's Game could end up being art as well as commerce. I've had visions of this movie in my mind for so long, it's killing me.
 

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Posted by Exploding Monkey (Member # 7612) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Just another Dharma bum:
Thanks for defending Peterson, Card, I really loved Troy and don't understand why people don't like him being the director anymore than you do :\.

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I'm watching Troy for the first time. Half way through it right now. I like it so far, but the fact I'm reading Kagan's The Peloponnesian War at the moment might be part of the reason I'm enjoying it so much.
 

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Posted by iamlegion (Member # 8087) on :
 
to CiceroJefferson

You are an Idiot, Wolfgang Peterson is one of the greatist directors of all time, you look at one film that was just ok and label him as a hack, you should do reaserch before you open your mouth. Peterson is the Director of Das boot, Air force One, and the best of all time The neverending Story. There is a wonderful wedsite out there that will prevent you from looking like an idiot again, its called www.imdb.com next time you want to say something stupid think about it first.
 

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Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
 
Iamlegion, welcome to Hatrack.

The approach you have taken here isn't quite in line with our approach here at Hatrack. Please take a moment to revisit the user agreement, or simply review how other people who disagree just as firmly with Cicero have responded without insult. Thanks.

--Pop
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 

quote:

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Peterson is the Director of Das boot, Air force One, and the best of all time The neverending Story.

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Okay, the fact that you mentioned these three films in the same breath and specifically identified The Neverending Story as the best of them should by any standard immediately disqualify your opinion.
 

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Posted by thegameiam (Member # 7305) on :
 
I was nervous about Peterson, because while I hadn't seen Troy, I hadn't heard anything good about it from anyone other than OSC. However, www.imdb.com is my friend: Das Boot is one of the greats of all time, and The Perfect Storm was fantastic (along with his others) [hmm, I just realized that he's got a thing for sinking boats...]

So now I'm excited, and whether or not Troy is good, the rest of his work is fantastic

-David
 

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Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
 
I for one liked Troy immensily. Some of the diologue was dumb but I love war movies of that variety and picking apart the tactiks, etc. Also that movie had to be hard to do because the story of Troy originally had Gods and Goddesses all over it. It had to be hard to write a story without them in it and still have it make sense. Also I think the shots, angles, and other director stuff was great. Some of the diologue was weak but that is the script writers fault not the directors.
Also in regards to child actors I was just it the musical, the Sound of Music, and I have new respect for children in acting. One of them turned into a huge problem but the other three were great. Ages 6-10
 

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Posted by Traveller (Member # 8101) on :
 
While I have no problem with the director of Troy himself, I was wondering...was Ron Howard approached? He's had plenty of great projects in the past, he can get plenty of studios behind him and he's great with folks of all ages, so I presume he did or might have expressed and interest at some point? Perhaps OSC could shed some light on that.

Otherwise, glad to hear Peterson's in place and work has begun.
 

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Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
 
Something that bothered me about "Air Force One" was the first lady just seemed to vanish at a certain point. I mean, she was on screen but just not acting in a manner consistent with what I would expect. But I would probably have to see it again to be sure. I did really enjoy "The Perfect Storm". And I watch "Das Boot three times, including the director's cut which was extra long. I loved that movie. I wish I could get the miniseries version that was broadcast on German TV.

And I apologize for dissing "Troy" without having seen it. But my reason for not seeing it was the casting decision, which I asked about in good faith and no one responded.

I mean, I think Brad Pitt is sexy as all get up, but I am a Greek Mythology fanatic and I just could not buy him as Achilles. I'm thinking a young Charlton Heston. I don't know if there is someone like that in Hollywood now. Someone whose power is in his frame, not just his muscles. P.S. Also a young Brando, if you follow me.
 

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Posted by OniShiro (Member # 8082) on :
 
I think the main problem with Troy is Orlando Bloom not Brad Pitt.
 

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Posted by DSP_Molo (Member # 8102) on :
 
I think we can all say that we definitely want at least two things from Ender's Game:

Honesty and reality.

When looking at an ideal director for Ender's Game, we can't just base our opinions on whether or not we liked this or that previous movie of theirs. Rather, base it off of how that director would be able to put across the key elements we want and expect from the film. Was Troy a great movie? Well, that's a matter of opinion. Did it bring across a sense of honesty and reality? In my opinion, yes. There were some aspects of reality skewed, yes (the Greek League lands and conducts two major battles in a single day... riiight) and some elements of desperation were, in my opinion, left out (such as the sacrifice of Iphigenia). However, these changes were made to fit the pace of the movie and were necesarry when condensing an epic like the Iliad to screen.

Considering OSC has stated that EG will be condensed into a single year, I believe it is essential that the director attached to the project be able to condense the essential elements of a story while remaining true to the story and to the characters. Wolfgang Peterson has demonstrated his ability to do that.

Compare this to laughable alternatives such as Spielberg or Scorsese who, in my opinion, have never created works of honesty in their entire lives.

Wolfgang Peterson may not be the ideal person for the job, but think of all the simply wretched alternatives we could have ended up with if not for OSC's adamancy and integrity. WP, at least, has demonstrated he has the right skills for the job.

Edit: I also didn't believe Pitt as Achilles at ALL. Don't kill me, but I think Vin Diesel would have been better suited. He has the power, grace, and cool demeanor to be believable as the leader of the Myrmidons. Also, ever since I saw "Helen of Troy" I've always pictured Achilles as bald. Did anyone else keep calling him "Asheel" through the whole movie?
 

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