I've been thinking about the EG movie for a while and all of the problems that are involved in bringing the story to the screen. I've been concerned about how you get LOTs of high quality child actors to make Academy Award winning performances, all in the same movie. If anyone has noticed, there are only a few good child actors around at any given time... and then they grow up. The CG option bothers me because the only completely CG models we have seen in movies are Jar Jar Binks, Yoda, and Gollum. The stretch from those "characters" to really complex human children seems like too much of a stretch. Now, I do have one option on how to do it. Get a top flight Japanese anime studio to do the movie. No where else have I seen serious drama done well that involved so many children. I know that anime might not be as mainstream as would be desired for EG, but creative marketing is going to be needed anyway to interest the average movie goer. After all, 5 year old military commanders in space is not your normal hollywood fare. Just a thought to kick around. Let me know what you all think.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
The biggest problem with bringing EG to the movie screen is OSC's historic success with the story (as evidenced by this forum) and whatever he'd like to see the story do on film and/or evolve into the pop-culture mental cluster****.
He's a keen observer, obviously, but like all human beings he's got tremendous blindspots.
Stupendous, actually.
While his discussions and movie-reviewer columns (and I'm sure his recent meetings with the idiot-elite of microcosmicH-wood) have attempted to curtail the "vanity project" nature of an EG film, it's still there.
I really think OSC oughta call up Clarke.
Posted by Marcelarrow (Member # 8198) on :
The actors won't look like their story counterparts. Bean is supposed to look like hes 6 or 7. No way they'll find an actor that young or looks that young. I'm sure they'll just take artistic license and up the age to like 11-14. Spoilers for EG ahead.
How will the brutal killings of Stilson and Bonzo translate onto the bigscreen i wonder?
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
Even if you scale up the ages to 11-14 there are not enough good actors that age to even cover his Jeesh. How man stellar actors of that age can you name right now? Dakota Fanning is about the only one I can think of right off hand. Now if you used anime and got a REALLY good Japanese anime studio, it could be as close to the book as you wanted. They could be the right age, and you could make it into a series so it wouldn't be cut down to fit into a movie. The only problem is how do you market anime to the masses. Although, I don't think EG will appeal to average joe movie goer anyway. On the other hand, the demographic that EG appeals to is similar to the same demographic that anime appeals to. Smart 13-30 somethings.
Posted by Mullitt (Member # 7826) on :
Anime? Gross. Anime just doesn't have the aesthetics it takes to recreate the EG univerese. Anime always looks so... well, not realistic, and Ender's Game is a pretty realistic book. I just don't see it working as anime or any form of animation at all.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Check the thread on the other side.
This and other considerations are discussed extensively.
BTW - the kids are gonna be around 12 in the movie. And there are plenty of skilled actors that age, even if they're not widely known. And really, depending on the script, you only need 2-4 really good actors - Ender, Bean, Valentine, Peter.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
I would like it as an Anime as well, especially if its done by the people who did Gundam Wing/Seed which follows a similar concept of kids in controll of military weapons. Though if they can get enough CHild actors then ok but if they can't...? Also remember its not just the jeesh but the backgorund kids and all the others.
Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :
If you'd like to see an anime of this then the best anime I can think of that is along these lines is Gunslinger Girl. It's about little girls being used as assassins. I know it sounds dumb. When I first heard about the concept I thought that it would end up being a comedy, but it's not. So, then I thought it wouldn't be too good, but it's quite possibly one of my favorites. It's handeled quite intelligently and focuses much more on the characters and how the girls' minds have been warped than on action.
Still, I don't know if anime would be the way to go for Ender's Game. It'd be something I'd have to see first and I don't see that happening. I'm sure they'll get some decent child actors for it. Plus, most voices for children or done by adults in american and japanese animation, so to make them truly sound like kids they'd just have to get kids anyway to play the parts.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
OSC already has Wolfgang Petersen and Warner Brother Studios to do the movie.
I highly doubt they will consider anime.
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
That's pretty interesting that you said Gunslinger Girl Megalomaniac, that's what made me think of making EG a anime. The way the kids acted childlike at one moment and stone cold calculated the next immediately made me think of EG. And I know that there is almost 0% chance of this happening kaioshin00, that's why I said it was just something to discuss. I never thought that OSC would take movie advice from a random person on the forum anyway. It's just an idea I had that solved all of the problems I can see with making the movie.
Posted by Icec0o1 (Member # 8157) on :
Anime is for children. No adults will watch this movie if it's anime and Ender's Game isn't ment to be read solely by children; it has some powerful messages/drama.
Posted by MKellar (Member # 8133) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icec0o1: Anime is for children.
That has got to be the most ignorant comment I have ever seen. Just because something is animated does not mean it is a cartoon for children. At least Japan is able to realize the animated form does not have to have those boundries. I highly doubt anyone would agree that the nudity and extreme violence (more extreme than anything live-action) often round in anime are meant for children.
As for Ender's Game being an Anime, I don't think it would ever happen. Also, I don't think it would reach as broad an audience if it were to be an anime. I trust Wolfgang to pull it off in live action *crosses fingers*
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
quote:Originally posted by Icec0o1: Anime is for children. No adults will watch this movie if it's anime and Ender's Game isn't ment to be read solely by children; it has some powerful messages/drama.
That is way off base. The most powererful movies I have ever seen are anime. Anime has the ability to show and tell things that live action movies never could.
You wanna see a 12 year old kid fake fly around a room? fine. But i wanna see something thats seems realistic, as if the characters are real, and have emotions. Yes, it's hard to do with anime, but it's even harder to do with children.
Look at one of the best grossing movies that involves a young Child. Star Wars: The Phantom Menace has an incredible cast. Jake Loyd did a tremendous job......for a young child. But in those moments when we were supposed to feel his pain, his want, we didn't. He did a fine job.
Like I said, anime allows for stuff that, otherwise, wouldn't happen. It would be the very best thing that could happen to EG. I want to feel Ender break down completly after Bonzo, but with a live action movie, all we will see is a little boy cry in the corner.
I know it won't happen, but anime would be the best answer.
[/rant]
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
And one more thing while I'm thinking about it:
Never, never come on here, and purposefully start an argument with an idiotic statement like that. It has no base, and is definitly just you opinion. Many adults make a living off of anime.
Seriously, I don't mean to scare you off, but lurk a little bit. don't come in here like you know all. You will be torn to shreds.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Anime is a "niche" thing; I know many people who love it, but I personally don't. And a large percentage of people who have actually *seen* anime and know what it is, dislike it and are annoyed by it. There is no way they would take a property as valuable as Ender's Game and throw it away on something that most people aren't "into". Just my opinion. Although I have to say Wolfgang Peterson has his next film cast, is deep into pre-production and it ain't Ender's Game. Losing hope, here.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
And by the way I think we can throw away the argument that you can get a more "realistic" performance from a cartoon than from a real kid without giving it too much more thought. There are a lot of very talented child actors out there.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: Never, never come on here, and purposefully start an argument with an idiotic statement like that. It has no base, and is definitly just you opinion.
quote: (...)I know it won't happen, but anime would be the best answer.
You can't tell other people not to post their opinions when do the same thing yourself. Just beccause you think anime would be the "best answer" doesn't mean that is. How would you like it if I told you never to post your opinions?
In fact, if anime was the best answer, then why don't they do it? Do you not trust Mr. Card's judgment in his own creations?
Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
actually, sometimes, no. He does a lot of brilliant things, but some of what he does isn't always the best answer.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
"And by the way I think we can throw away the argument that you can get a more "realistic" performance from a cartoon than from a real kid without giving it too much more thought. There are a lot of very talented child actors out there. "
Wrong, just plain wrong. Have you ever seen Naruto or Gundam Seed? Extremely good acting! Especially the part where Shinn Asuka's Sister is killed in the cross fire between the Orb Union and the Earth Alliance Fedaration (I know the Ancynm is EAF so I'm geuss what the name is they haven't had a new episode translated for 2 weeks so I don't quite remember)?
Posted by Mullitt (Member # 7826) on :
I believe the point is that no matter how real the performances are, it's just a cartoon. You might love it, but it's very unappealing to the masses.
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
To expand on what I think Mullitt is saying is that... even if Ice's post is blantently wrong, it's why an Ender's Game anime would not be successful. In the grand ole' USA, anime is primarily seen as a children's thing. If you ask the majority of people to name an anime, if they could do it at all, what do you think they would answer? Ghost in the Shell? Probably not. Heck, a Cowboy Bebop, System Experiments: Lain, or a Haibane Renmei would be nice, but you'll probably end up with a show like Pokèmon, Yugi-oh, or Digimon.
That is what the masses associate with anime. (No, I don't have facts to back me up, but come on, be realistic, not everyone has been exposed to the same things that you have.) They just won't be able to take Ender's Game seriously is it is anime or completly CG.
That doesn't mean that it won't be a great movie if it's anime. It will just be a box office distaster. Adults wouldn't want to go see it, it would be rated to high for children... You'd have a small crowd of people who read the book who would come out complaining about how it isn't faithful, there just isn't really much way to win with anime.
Now, as a sixteen year old, I must finish this post because my father needs my help with something. So ^_^
Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :
I have no what has the greater potential to have a better preformance: live action or anime. But, I'd say that live action has it much easier, simply because it is naturally more real. And animation, of course, is artifical. The ending to an anime called "Jin-Roh" is very tramatic, but at the same time the animation seems a tad, I don't know, goodfy? It's still sad, but something just feels off about the way it was drawn.
But, just because it is animated and doesn't have that natural realism to it doesn't mean that it can't effect someone to the point of crying. Go see "Grave of the Fireflys." I can pretty much gurantee you that if you don't cry at the ending of this movie then you will be close to it. Just thinking about it makes me sad...
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
I didn't cry during Grave of the Fireflies, but I came close to it twice and I felt sick to my stomach at the end of the movie. I'm not doubting anime's ability to portray emotion, especially now, seeing as I believe Grave of the Fireflies came out the same year I did, just the willingness of the (American) masses to believe that it can portray that emotion.
While I agree that you'd have a much more willing male 14-35 year old bachelor audience, I don't think that is large enough to support the type of production costs this movie would be looking at, plus with Wolfgang Peterson already tied to it, I don't really know if I want him experimenting with a medium that he isn't too familar with (or is he? I don't really know the director that well).
What was the last good movie that Wolfgang Peterson directed? Air Force One was okay... Enemy Mine?
Edit: However, with a movie like Grave of the Fireflies, anime is probably the only option. That movie just wouldn't work well in live action because would just be too hard to watch. Is Ender Game that type of movie? There are some really harsh scenes, especially if we look at the starving in the streets of Rotterdam, but I don't think that it would be too uncomfortable to watch.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Ummm...Troy?
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
Honestly, I haven't seen Troy. I kind of dismissed it as a movie following in the wake of Lord of the Rings success (or another Braveheart).
However, I haven't heard the best things about it. Looking it up real quick, it got an average review (by critics, bah, what do they know anyway?) of 6.2 according to rottontomatoes.com and a 7.2 on imdb.com. Also, on IMDB, I'm looking at what appear to be financial figures, now I'm not sure if I'm looking at this correctly, but according to this, it had grossed $135 million in the USA (I think these are only USA figures), I think this includes eight months of DVD sales. For a movie that had a $185 budget and had Brad Pitt in a starring role... that doesn't sound like a "box office success."
Even if you add on UK's gross and such, you're still not pulling above it's reported budget, that doesn't look to promising from a studio's point of view, does it? (This is actually a question, I don't really know, I'm hoping someone else knows more about this than I do.) Just, OSC has expressed doubt on here before. Wolfgang Peterson being attached to it is good, does that help, though?
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
I completely understand that anime is not even going to be considered by OSC and Peterson. I understood that before I even started this. I just wanted to see if anyone else thought the same way as I that it might be the only way it could be successfully done. I just know that with anime you don't have to cut corners. You don't have to make it shorter than you need too. And you don't have to worry about finding crazy numbers of outstanding child actors. As I see it you have 3 options on EG. Make it with real child actors (good luck finding that many), make it with CG kids (they will look unnatural since no true to life human has been done in CG yet), or use anime. My biggest fear is that the movie will be released with major changes and alterations to the core story. I just don't see a way to make EG live action and keep it true to the book.
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
Joshua, you forgot claymation!
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
I know that even if the movie is sub par, that I still have the books, and that is true... but consider this. How many times have you loved a book and heard it was being made into a movie, then the movie comes out and it sucks. After that every time you read the book again, or a new installment in the series, you always have a little thought in your head "Man, it's too bad about that movie." What used to be a purely enjoyable experience is then forever marred by one bad movie. The best example I can think of is the Earthsea movie. The Ursula Le Guin book was cool, I really enjoyed it. Then the movie was made by Scifi channel and it total skrewed up every aspect of the book. After that I couldn't even finish the series. After the movie I just didn't want to read the books anymore. I am sure that will not happen with EG, but anything close to that would be tragic.
Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :
With the whole bad movies based on books thing, after I see one, it will pretty much destroy my imagination for how I pictured it and replace it with the sets and actors from the movie if I go back and reread the book. Elijah Wood, from now on, will be the Frodo I picture when I decide to go back through the Lord of the Rings. This may not happen with everything, but most of it, for better or worse.
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
Like I was trying to say, it's really hard for a book to live up to a movie, the only way that I learn to like certain movies if I can respect them as their own artistic vision, for example, as a Harry Potter fan, I actually rather like Colombus' two audio-book visions of the Harry Potter movies and then was dissapointed at how rushed the third movie felt in comparison to with the book, but then as an average movie goer, the third one is considered the best without much question. Which is the better formula? As a fan, I want the audio book movie, but if that's delivered, will it flop?
As for what Mr_Megalomaniac brings up, if the buggers aren't done right (and they sound like they will be rather.... odd from what I've read about them from OSC) it could mess up the series for me, so I completly understand where you are coming from.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
quote:Make it with real child actors (good luck finding that many)
Yeah, it's gonna be *real* hard to find 20 child actors.
This thread is hilarious.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
I don't think anime and cartoons are a bad way to go for telling a story.
There's an old animation of The Hobbit that I saw prolly in grade-school that resonates for me, more strongly even than Jackson's heroic, unprecedented, and historic TRIOLOGY.
sings: "the chances, the changes.."
Those folk songs have stuck with me for quite some time. I doubt the CG renderings of the hefalumps, or whatever those tusky blundering war-beasts were called, in the Jackson-cum-Lucas rendition, will.
[ June 11, 2005, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: alluvion ]
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: make it with CG kids (they will look unnatural since no true to life human has been done in CG yet), or use anime
I fail to see the difference in CG and anime. Both are non-real, therefore both look unnatural. Not that that is a bad thing.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
k,
I think there is a difference. Hand-drawn cartoon characters still bear the hand of human-touch. It's subtle, but it's palpable. CG doesn't quite do that.
technical splitting-of-hairs, but it seems important.
all
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
I'm pretty sure that the majority of anime is made using computers, not being hand drawn.
That's why there's a difference between the quality of animation in Astroboy and GetBackers.
Posted by Inspired (Member # 8130) on :
Enders game, I can see as a real movie. The sets wouldn't be difficult, and there are a fair number of good child actors out there. But what about an Ender's shadow movie? Bean is supposed to be three in the beggining, and talking several langauges. Making the roving gangs of children look realistic would be even more difficult to do without anime. How would they be able to make the children look starving, and make you feel for them. This is just my opinion.
Posted by TheClone (Member # 6141) on :
The Ender's Game movie merges both Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, apparently.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
It could be a real movie, sure.
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
I think a few people have missed my point about child actors. I know there are litteraly thousands of child actors out there. The problem is finding GOOD child actors. Ones that can take on the roles of military commanders with complex feelings. Remember that EG rides almost completely on the intereactions of children. Jake Loyd acting won't cut it. Think of it as if Jake Loyd not only had to be a full Jedi with great light sabre skills, but also he would have to be able to command legions of clone troopers while doing it. That is more like what these kids are going to have to pull off in EG. The have to be convincing in human drama, battle room action, and sheer presence to portray command ability. You might find one or two kids who can do this right now if you are lucky. How many kids are just in Ender's Jeesh? Do you see where I am going here? I don't think child actors are going to cut it.
Posted by alluvion (Member # 7462) on :
It's a troubling question, to be sure. The "adult-talking" younglings are difficult to resolve with any audience's perception of reality, (child-like and commiserating OR adult-like and smug)
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Joshua, I didn't miss your point, I just disagree with it. For every one example you site (eh, Jake Loyd?) I can site another. (Henry Thomas). [and for the record, Jake Loyd is a talented actor]
Look at the Harry Potter movies; they are similar to Ender's Game in terms of what will be required for the child actors.
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
I think you just reinforced my point. Henry Thomas was in E.T. That was in 1982. You had to go back that far to name another decent child actor. Also, the Harry Potter kids were a lot older than the age of the ones to be used in EG. Just think of all the MAJOR characters that have to be children in this. Ender, Valentine, Peter, Han Tsu, Dink, Petra, Bonzo, Stillson, Bean, Shen, Bernard, etc.... ALL of those kids have to be as good as the best child actors are. You are not going to find that many. I hope I'm wrong. I want this movie to be great. Ender's Game is my favorite book of all time. I am just afraid the movie has too many problems to overcome.
Posted by Jacob Calder (Member # 7945) on :
I don't think they'll need that many good kid actors. It would make sense if the movie only concentrated on a few members of the jeesh and Ender's main story line. I don't know if even Peter & Valentine would have to be in it, or if they might just have small roles in the beginning.
I believe Ender contractually has to be played by a boy 12 or under. I don't know if the other kids have to be a specific age, but if the older kids are played by 15 year olds, a 12 year old Ender would seem much younger. And Bean could easily be played by a 10 year old boy would looks 6 or 7, since kid actors usually play much younger.
The key is going to be a great kids casting director, who knows kids and what type of kid to cast for the role. I hope the studio doesn't just go for name child actors and casts kids perfect for the role, like the Harry Potter casting.
What I really wonder is how long it will take Ender's Game if Ender is in almost every scene and kids can only film for about 4 hours a day. Maybe the adults' roles will have to be increased so that the film doesn't take a year to film.
Posted by Jacob Calder (Member # 7945) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joshua: I think you just reinforced my point. Henry Thomas was in E.T. That was in 1982. You had to go back that far to name another decent child actor.
There have been great kid actors since ET, but few movies have been as well written or directed. The even best kid actor can't save a bad movie and not all directors can get a good performance from a child.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
I would prefer a well done Anime to live action, don't get me wrong I've seen some HORRIBLE anime's but the few good ones made up for it and kinda follow a similar concept to EG such as the Gundam spin off's. And if you ignore some of the goofiness even Naruto.
Now also consider that Anime at the very least would be far cheaper for the same results you still get your special effects, you could blend in CG to certain aspects such as any Space ships, Anime can portray real human emotion even better then humans in MHO. I'ld prefer either CG or Anime with a slight oreference to Anime. Now one question PLEASE tell me there will be no nudity!
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
The Clone
The difference between between me and you is that I don't judge a movie by its budget, box office take, foreign DVD sales, reviews, stars, studio or anything else. If I want to know if I movie's good, I go see it and judge for myself.
A quick check of the top 10 grossing movies of all time and the Oscar winners of the last 15 years reveals precious few of my favorite movies.
Even people who have almost the exact same taste in movies as me can't always recommend a movie. It's a totally subjective thing.
Also, if you really want a good idea how much money a movie makes, I recommend you read this article; http://slate.msn.com/id/2118819/
Bottom line - Anime is fine for a discussion, a flight of fancy, but it'll never happen. Major studio releases aren't anime. Major director's aren't attached to anime films. No matter how powerful and popular it is overseas, adults in the US aren't paying $7.50 to see EG in anime. Sorry guys.
OSC even says in one of the previous threads about the movie that the only reason it's finally getting made is that Peterson agreed to direct. That's the way hollywood works.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
I don't want an anime EG. We'd get a 10 minute scene of people launching off battleroom walls with grimaces on their face (framed by perfect hair peaking out of the edge of the helmet, of course).
And all the while there'd be bad music playing.
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
Okay, I think we've pretty much seen now that anime won't fly as the medium for EG. All of us want to see EG, but only 6 out of 16 people here were positive about having it made as an anime. Mostly from the comments I have read, it's because of the "cartoon" stereotype. Those that didn't fit into that catagory mostly haven't seen enough good anime, or have and just don't like it. After all, not everyone likes Braveheart either (sad but true.)I still can't think of a way to do it other than anime and not completely mess it up. The sad reality though is that even a not great live action movie would most likely out gross a awesome anime.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Of course it would.
Joshua, seriously, stop assuming that just because some of us don't like what you like it is because we just haven't been exposed to it. Consider the fact that we just don't like it, period, not because of stereotypes, not because we are less educated. But because we frankly don't think it's that great, and we don't think it would be a good way to tell the story of Ender's Game.
Deal?
Posted by Joshua Newberry (Member # 7864) on :
In the original post, you cite Jar Jar Binks, Yoda, and Gollum as the only purely-CG characters we have examples of in movies. This is simply not true--remember the horribly-written-but-beautiful Final Fantasy movie? The entire thing was CG, good enough to fool the mind if you didn't think about it in some instances. And if that's the quality we had four years ago, imagine now, with computers as powerful as they are. We may not get such a thing for this movie, but somewhere down the line, perhaps if we are lucky, we can get a miniseries-type deal going and have the book translated as it should be, containing most(if not all) of the book's events, such as Peter and Valentine's subplots.
Posted by Mirkmaid (Member # 8208) on :
I hope it's not going to be animated. If it is animated, people might take it as a children's movie. I prefer the non-animated stuff, most of the time, anyway. Posted by Peter (Member # 4373) on :
JN has a wonderful point that i wanted to get across but didn't know how until now. Anime is exactly like those CG movies, if you don't think about it, then they don't seem so fake.
TL, i don't think that's what he meant to say.
quote:or have and just don't like it.
I think that that is what he did say and meant to say.
Posted by Mullitt (Member # 7826) on :
quote:Originally posted by Peter: JN has a wonderful point that i wanted to get across but didn't know how until now. Anime is exactly like those CG movies, if you don't think about it, then they don't seem so fake.
TL, i don't think that's what he meant to say.
quote:or have and just don't like it.
I think that that is what he did say and meant to say.
Maybe he didn't say it, but a lot of other people did. That's basically the response you get when you say you don't like anime around people who do: "All anime isn't Pokemon." Maybe some people just don't like anime.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
Peter, I don't understand you.
Posted by Jacob Calder (Member # 7945) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joshua Newberry: In the original post, you cite Jar Jar Binks, Yoda, and Gollum as the only purely-CG characters we have examples of in movies. This is simply not true--remember the horribly-written-but-beautiful Final Fantasy movie? The entire thing was CG, good enough to fool the mind if you didn't think about it in some instances. And if that's the quality we had four years ago, imagine now, with computers as powerful as they are. We may not get such a thing for this movie, but somewhere down the line, perhaps if we are lucky, we can get a miniseries-type deal going and have the book translated as it should be, containing most(if not all) of the book's events, such as Peter and Valentine's subplots.
My guess is that a live action Ender's Game will have CG characters in the Battle Room, it's just too easy to add the children's faces to CG bodies floating around the Battle Room.
Final Fantasy tanked at the box office. That's what people remember about the movie. FF cost $140+ million to make, Sony spent atleast $35 million marketing the hell out of the movie, and it only made $32.1 at the US boxoffice.
Warner Brothers is gonna expect Peterson to deliever a movie that will be a big blockbuster. They're not gonna fork out 100+ million for a movie that doesn't have a chance to make it's money back.
I really love animation, but I don't see a big budget animated movie being made that isn't like Finding Nemo or Shrek. After how poorly Final Fantasy and Titan AE flopped so badly, I don't think an animated Ender's Game could ever get the budget too be done properly.
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
I forgot about Final Fantasy, it was okay I geuss not what I expected from a Final Fantasy title though. Though that was just stoyline/plot etc the CG was great and if not Anime then I hope its CG at leats in the battleroom if its blendable.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: JN has a wonderful point that i wanted to get across but didn't know how until now. Anime is exactly like those CG movies, if you don't think about it, then they don't seem so fake.
Anime is 2D animation. Sure you can get some depth with perspective, etc. but its not anything like CG which is 3D animation - much more similar to live action.
Posted by Tarrsk (Member # 332) on :
quote:I fail to see the difference in CG and anime. Both are non-real, therefore both look unnatural. Not that that is a bad thing.
There's a HUGE difference, and I'm saying this as someone who can't stand most anime (I love Miyazaki, but don't like much else). 90% of CG (basically everything non-Pixar/Dreamworks) is designed to look as realistic as possible, whereas animation is inevitably stylized. It's supposed to look "unnatural." Any attempt to create photorealistic CG children within the next decade, at least, would fail simply because, no matter how much processing power you have, no matter how advanced your rendering technology is, there is too much subtlety in human movement to nail with computer animation.
Animation, whether it be hand-drawn or computer-generated, gets around this by making no claims at photorealism. The mere suggestion of a movement is enough to get the idea across. The audience understands that photorealism is not the goal, and thus can suspend its disbelief well enough to believe that what they are watching are characters rather than drawings. Of course, it also helps that animators have had nearly a century to refine their art form.
As an example, take a man waving his arm. This is simple for a skilled animation artist; it's just a matter of drawing the frames. Mildly time-consuming, perhaps, but the artist can intuit the necessary movements, and his resulting animation will suggest the wave without showing every tiny detail. A CG artist from "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within", on the other hand, would need to worry about the physics of cloth movement, making sure the arm musculature contracts and shifts realistically, nuances of lighting, skin shaders, and tons more. Nailing that to the point where the audience cannot tell that the character is CG is damn near impossible... even people who know nothing about moviemaking will still feel a subtle "wrongness" about the resulting shot. Keep in mind that it's hard enough to make completely fictitious creatures such as dragons, oliphaunts, and that weird lizard thing from Episode III look photorealistic. It's orders of magnitude more difficult to make a believable CG human being.
[ June 14, 2005, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Tarrsk ]
Posted by buttonsnupnup (Member # 8222) on :
Just reading this topic made me want to post! I've thought for a long time about anime being used for Enders Game, i think the film could be made, and made well, entirely in anime, however i do think that with anime there comes a certain level of detachment that does not exist with live action films. I think this is evidenced in the use of anime in Kill Bill Vol. 1, anime is used to show scenes that otherwise would be unlikely to make it past the censors, but yet manage to flesh out a characters backstory while at the same time putting up a barrier between the viewer and the horror on screen.
For this reason i would like to see anime used at certain times, or possibly rather than anime, the technique used in the forthcoming A Scanner Darkly, which reminds me of the one used on the Orcs in the animated Lord of the rings film.
I think these techniques would best be used for, the death of stillson/combat rooms/the game with the giant etc. to lend a sense of unrealism to the proceedings.
Anyway just my two cents(pence?)
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
The problem is not that EG couldn't be effectively represented as anime, I don't think anyone's disputing that. The problem is that, for now, no anime film is going to be a commercial success.
Posted by Mr_Megalomaniac (Member # 7695) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: The problem is not that EG couldn't be effectively represented as anime, I don't think anyone's disputing that. The problem is that, for now, no anime film is going to be a commercial success.
Here's hoping that "Howl's Moving Castle" will do really good.
Posted by Joshua (Member # 7591) on :
I have yet to see a bad Miyazaki film. He is one of the best directors ever, anime, film, whatever. Mononoke Hime (Princess Mononoke) is one of the best movies ever made. I'm sure the next one will be stunning as well.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
As for an animated format, anime or otherwise, I don't think that makes for a successful move. Sure you could manipulate characters more easily, but this is the age of CGI. Anyone can see a little boy fly in a "cartoon". But to make it a real living boy...like, this could actually happen one day...that is attractive. There're not that many people who've read Ender's Game, especially around my high school. Around one in twenty teens, maximum. So naturally they won't go just to see a film version of the book. They'll go to see a movie, and a feature-length "cartoon" is not very appealing.
Let's face it--animation in the U.S. will always be associated with Disney, and Disney makes its full-length animated films primarily for children. Teenagers see "animated" and think, I'm way too old for this. (I'm assuming that the primary market will be the U.S.; correct me if I'm wrong.)
Anime is beginning to rise again, it's true...but the successes are few and far between. The only anime that I've watched and didn't feel cheesed-out by recently was the Animatrix shorts. But I'd choose the real movies every time...for the illusion of authenticity I felt while watching them. I can only recall one okay anime movie that appeared in theaters recently in my area (Spokane, WA) which was Spirited Away, and it only showed at one theater. I know about five people who actually saw it. Conclusion: Anime EG has about 1000:1 odds of being a box-office smash.
The thing is, I like Ender's Game among many scifi novels because it seems realistic. I don't want to see triangular hair, large eyes, and flashy color backgrounds ruining *my* Ender's Game. Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
wait... if the arguement has come to the point that we're argueing numbers can anyone field how much japanimated films (there were some) hsve made minus costs? and how much all the possilbe series(s) have made made on average released in US/Japan figures? After all I've heard that Yu-Gi-Oh! The Movie made a decent amount of money.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)