I know that lots of books on writing say to turn of your "inner editor" during your first draft. They say things like "Write from the heart; Rewrite from the head."
But I swear there was a thread here where OSC offered a contrary opinion on it that made a lot of sense to me . . . anybody remember where that was? Or remember him talking about it at Boot Camp?
I tried searching for every way I thought he'd phrased it, but couldn't find it . . .
Posted by Steele Gregory (Member # 8417) on :
"Fix it now! There is only one draft." is the lesson I remember from boot camp. The idea being that if you make a plot change on page one it effects everything that follows. So if you wait to make the change to page one after you've written 300 pages, you've wasted your time writing 299 pages that you already knew would have to be scrapped.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
It can be easy to confuse editing and revising. Revising means changing plot points, character motivations, etc. Editing means fixing grammar, spelling, word choices, etc.
You know you need to turn off your internal editor if you find yourself constantly rewriting a sentence or paragraph to get it perfect. This is a situation where you should just move on and keep writing.
However, if on page ten you suddenly realized that something you wrote on page two won't work, you need to fix it immediately or else it will continue to affect later parts of the story.
Some people find that outlining, mind mapping, or snowflaking is a good way to work out structure and plot before investing the time to write it. Of the three, the snowflake method is the only one I find useful. Also note that this is more of an issue with novels. If you write a short story with severe structure issues, it isn't much of a time commitment to completely rewrite it. But the longer the story, the more things have to be right at the beginning, or you'll end up with a mess.
You should also note that the more you practice writing, the more likely you are to get things right on the first pass. But if you sit there paralyzed because the words aren't coming out just the way you want, you'll never build up the experience that you need. It's all a balancing act.
--Mel
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
No, see, I have the opposite problem.
I get paralyzed if I try to go on. Even if it's just word choice issues, or whatever, if I feel like the scene I just finished wasn't engaging enough, or tense enough, or something enough, I can't write the next scene.
And for years I've felt horribly guilty about constantly going back and revising. But I think the idea that there's only one draft rings true for me. I don't just want to blindly crank out a "draft" of the story at top speed.
I want to produce the story.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
Have you tried timed writing challenges? They can be quite helpful for getting you into the habit of finishing a work. The one I participate in is at Liberty Hall. The way it works is you get a trigger (a word, phrase, picture, etc) and your story based on the trigger is due back within 90 minutes. Then we critique each other's stories. You may or may not find something like that helpful. If you are interested in trying it, let me know and I'll tell the admin to let you in. We keep the board password protected so that we don't lose publication rights.
While writing a single draft is something to aspire to, I don't think most people are capable of it until they have gotten a fair bit of experience with writing. That means finishing stories, even if something isn't perfect.
I used to only write beginnings, and then I would get frustrated after a few pages and stop. The last few months I have been focusing on finishing stories, and my writing ability has improved drastically.
At any rate, everyone is different. What works for one won't work for all. Find what works for you.
Good luck with your writing.
--Mel
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
quote:if I feel like the scene I just finished wasn't engaging enough, or tense enough, or something enough, I can't write the next scene.
Well, this might paralyze you more, but try reading this page. I would suggest trying these techniques to revise some scenes that you've already finished, to get a feel for them. If you like the results, keep working with it until the principles become automatic. After that, you will probably write much better scenes on the first draft.
It's all about practice.
--Mel
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Mel, thanks for all the advice! I really appreciate it.
Going back never really was a problem for me, but trying not to go back has stopped me cold.
I actually never used to have a problem finishing anything. I would write a few scenes, get bogged down, go back and liven them up, get excited abut the story again, write a few more scenes, get bogged down again, wash, rinse, repeat.
It's only after I got the idea in my head that I couldn't go back and tweak that I've started leaving unfinished stories on my hard drive--even ones with completed outlines.
I've come to believe Card's addage that writer's block is your brain's way of telling you something was wrong. I think when I can't finish something it's either because I'm not happy with the outline or I'm not happy with the pages I already put down.
But I was buying into the "Leave it alone! Fix it later!" hype, and it just isn't working for me. It culminated earlier this month, when I tried out How to Write a Movie in 21 Days. On page 80, I just couldn't go on. There was too much I knew needed fixed. Entire characters needed to be there that weren't. Motivations needed to be changed. The set-up for the ending just hadn't happened.
The editing vs. revising explanation is probably spot-on. I think I was just getting as nonsensical about going back and fixing stuff as the "Don't go back!" folks are afraid those who do go back are about revising.
Posted by theCrowsWife (Member # 8302) on :
No problem .
Sounds like you're getting a handle on what works for you. It can be tough to figure that out, when there is so much different advice given.
Do you know about the Writers' Forums on this site? We have a lot of interesting discussions there. Good people, too.
--Mel
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Yeah, I don't dabble in there much. Usually when I post on Hatrack, it's because I'm stalling, and usually what I'm supposed to be doing is writing. If I'm going to make the step back to the writer's forum, the guilt usually propels me back to writing.
I posted the question in this forum because it was in this forum he made the comment and I'd been searching for it for far longer than I'd care to admit before I finally broke down and made this post.
Posted by SpEeDMaSTeR (Member # 7568) on :
A question for you writers out there: did you start simply writing short stories and ideas or did you launch yourself into a large novel right away?
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
I wrote short stories for high school and university, but they were assignments. When it came time for me to write for me, I launched into novels. And no looking back.
One thing that you need to keep in mind is that writing a short story versus writing a novel requires different skills, and the ability to write one decently doesn't necessarily mean you can automatically do the other.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
The CrowsWife got the distinction between rewriting and editing exactly right. You don't worry about spelling, grammar, etc. - or even about "style" - until after the story is done. But you DO make sure you get the EVENTS and MOTIVATIONS right the first time through.
When you find yourself unable to go on for fear that what you JUST WROTE is not "good enough," then either you have OCD and need help I just can't give, or you have the ridiculous idea that "perfect writing" is achievable. It's not. Ever. By nobody, nohow. OK? So stop thinking that the written text is the artifact you're creating. The words of the story are NOT the work of art. They are merely the tool that you create and provide to other to allow THEM to create the work of art in their own memory.
In other words, LOTR, which is a flawed novel, full of extraneous material and infelicities of various kinds, is nevertheless the greatest work of literature in the twentieth century, because the real ARTWORK is created in the memories of millions of readers whose lives, whose world, are changed by having these experiences in their lives.
So what you should worry about is not what you JUST WROTE, but rather what you are ABOUT TO WRITE NOW. In other words, are you looking back at the previous scene because you are actually trying to avoid going on? Usually if you find yourself "blocked" - avoiding writing the next page, the next scene, the next chapter - it's because you have lost faith or hope in the story. You don't believe what you just wrote or are about to write, or you no longer care about it.
The solution is not to fiddle with language, it's to rethink the motives and reactions of the characters, or add new layers of invention to the milieu. When your unconscious mind tells you Stop, Don't Go On, and it's not just because you are hounded by OCD in all aspects of your life <grin>, then go back to the last few scenes and see if you can't find interesting ways to complicate the reactions or motives of the characters involved, or bring in other characters with contrary responses or motives that will revive your interest or affirm your belief in your own story.
In other words, writers block is almost always your unconscious mind telling you that you need to more fully invent or REinvent the story or milieu in order to enrich, complicate, or affirm it.
What you DON'T do is ignore it and force yourself to go on. Writers block is a precious tap into your unconscious mind. Let the faucet flow instead of dripping; bring new story elements in, make the people more complex and fascinating, or deepen and broaden the world of the story.
Posted by Salah (Member # 7294) on :
I needed to hear that. I've become addicted to using a thesaurus for every other word I write to make it all sound more "fresh and original," while it delays me hour after hour. So many words to choose from, so little time.
Posted by Jonathan Howard (Member # 6934) on :
Mr Card, do you even remember all your works off-hand?
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
I don't have OCD.
I'm Godspoken.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Seriously, thank you for a wonderful and helpful answer. (Please note I didn't use a thesaurus for either of those words).
This whole thread's been a tremendous help. If you don't see as much of me in the coming weeks, that will be a good sign.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote: In other words, writers block is almost always your unconscious mind telling you that you need to more fully invent or REinvent the story or milieu in order to enrich, complicate, or affirm it.
I definitely agree with this. (Not that Memsahib Dude Sir needs me to agree with him or anything. I'm just saying.)
Every single time I got blocked, it's because I had no idea what was going to happen next, or I didn't know the characters well enough, or that sort of thing. I'm a plotter. I have to have a full plot outline done before I start writing. When I've done the work before hand, I can write quickly and loads of it. When I don't, I don't. But not everyone writes well with a plot outline. My husband doesn't. He forms entire scenes in his head, complete with witty dialogue, and tosses them on paper almost fully formed.
See, not every writer approaches writing the same way. So now the question becomes, how do you best approach writing? If you don't know, then experiment and find out. Think about joining writer's groups and getting advice and feedback from other writers. Would they help? Possibly. They've helped me a lot. My husband? Nope. Never interested, and he seems to do fine anyway.
It's an interesting journey and it can be a lot of fun. Good luck.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Well, I finished the first draft of my first new short story in months. (Woo-hoo!)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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