I have learnt, through painful experience, that the standards of debate here are much lower than they are over at Ornery.
Anyone else interested in fixing this?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
no u r stupid lol
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
There are obviously a lot of things that I wouldn't mind changing about Hatrack. However, I think I'd have to oppose anything that made it more similar to the trainwreck of squabbling children that Ornery appears to me to be.
You are ignored by many here, Pelegius, because you embody many of those traits that make Ornery different than Hatrack. I can understand why you'd want things to change, but as it now stands, and how it will stand in the future if I can help it, behavior such as you have shown and that is commonplace on Ornery is not acceptible here.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
On Ornery, we don't call people with whom we disagree "a troll" or an "idiot" no matter how much we wish to.
What behaviour have I shown, you not making sense.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
For the seriously debate-minded, there's Ornery. For the rest of us, there's the 'rack . . . *grin*
And the level of discussion around here suits me just fine. I like knowing what a person thinks without necessarily having to wade through tons of cited research, or lengthy diatribes on formal logic and reasoning.
Being able to accurately research and write a formal essay responese is all well and good, but sometimes folks just like to get a feel for what the other person thinks and believes without feeling like they must research and write said formal essay response . . .
Some of us have to do that all day at work, or have to do it for school, etc., and would just as soon converse in a more light-hearted fashion.
IMHO. *smile*
Posted by Briseis (Member # 8878) on :
I agree with Shan. There's also the point of suggesting maybe just one topic where you'd vouch for a standard just for that once were you could experiment with appealing to a select group of this online society. It's hard to change an entire by challenging them upfront. Although I do feel for you on the point of people being disagreed with "idiot."
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Ornery is filled with serious discussions. But Hatrack also has its share of them. I would just like to stop seeing them become festivals of name-calling.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
Earlier here I posted a similar list (much less funny than Adams's, alas). Several people got defensive. And exemplified the standards!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Ornery also has its share of name-calling going on, Pelegius. I'm not a regular, but I've spent time there, too.
They're just generally more long-winded about it. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Kudos Shan-
I think its standard blow-hard practice to include lengthy qualifications, rattle off names and dates and places and whatever else in these forums just to show that your somehow more in the know than others. But its a pointless practice.
I am glad not to have to wade through all that mind numbing garbage here, and I might add that I have never trusted the opinions of anyone who needs to consult every possible source and know every arcane fact in order to feel or seem qualified to make comments.
Posted by tern (Member # 7429) on :
quote:On Ornery, we don't call people with whom we disagree "a troll" or an "idiot" no matter how much we wish to.
Hmmm. One more reason to prefer Hatrack. Troll. Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
here, it's a more genuine expression of thought. or i could be incorrect. idiots unite!
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
It's really sort of difficult for people from Ornery to come to Hatrack. They often have trouble adjusting to what is USUALLY a much more respectful tone here, and certainly a place with more limits.
I have to wonder, why would someone want Hatrack (especially the OSC discussion section of it) to be more like Ornery? Isn't Ornery enough. Or, is it that Ornery is slow so you are hoping that things will be more lively here?
It's also worth noting that, so far, every person coming over here from Ornery has ended up adapting to the norms of Hatrack, or leaving, rather than succeeding in making the least bit of change in Hatrack.
(except of course, making things unpleasant for a little while)
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Far as I've experienced, Hatrack is much more like a dinner table discussion than a court session and I like it this way.
There are a few wonderful essays here, but they are usually the result of very informed individuals who are answering to their area of expertise. Most of the responses are, to me, like a mosaic of experience that combine to make a whole. They are brief, peppered with humor and sarcasm and reflect a specific point of view. Sometimes it gets nasty, but that is usually because the health of the community is more important than the defining who is right and who is wrong.
Ornery is much more, well... ornery. You're expected to act like a curmugeon over there. If you do that here, no one will want to play with you.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
It's pointless to pretend that Hatrack is all sweetness and light, because it isn't. What I see is that, when a serious discussion gets started, it quickly becomes a session of rudeness, with personal attacks, which are never tolerated on Ornery, being freely hurled.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
Ornery is superficially calm right now because of aggressive moderating. Beneath the surface, you can tell that many of the members still hate each other. By contrast, most long-standing Hatrack members seem to be friends.
But it is true that some people have been rather pissy in the serious Hatrack threads lately.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Actualy, OrneryMod rarely has to take action. The site is more self-policed.
Posted by Destineer (Member # 821) on :
How long have you been on Ornery? I recall that a year or two ago, OrneryMod carried out a rather extensive purge, banning or suspending a number of troublesome members. So the long-standing members are aware of the implied threat.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I have been a member for a little less than a year.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
quote:It's pointless to pretend that Hatrack is all sweetness and light, because it isn't. What I see is that, when a serious discussion gets started, it quickly becomes a session of rudeness, with personal attacks, which are never tolerated on Ornery, being freely hurled.
There is more rudeness and personal attacks in HR than in Ornery? You sure about that? How were the rudeness and personal attacks "not tolerated" at Ornery?
JSYK, I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm truly amazed at your observation because I've not heard anyone else come to the same conclusion and I don't have enough recent experience with Ornery to make a legitimate comparison.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: There is more rudeness and personal attacks in HR than in Ornery? You sure about that?
Things run in cycles. The current cycle at Ornery is a remarkably civil one.
Posted by Sartorius (Member # 7696) on :
I've been skimming over there the past few weeks. They are civil, but mighty boring.
Posted by Kit the Odd (Member # 4975) on :
As someone that (mostly) lurks on both sites I'd say the biggest difference is in the nature of the community. Hatrack is a community discussion. Ornery is a political debate.
I expect to see radically different things at a neighborhood picnic than at a bitterly divided city council meeting.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I have learnt, through painful experience, that the standards of debate here are much lower than they are over at Ornery.
Anyone else interested in fixing this?
If I could snap my fingers and change this over here, I would.
Of course, I'd change it by removing all "debate" on The Rack and replacing it with respectful discussions.
Would that satisfy you?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I was one of the early joiners at Ornery. I have gone back there and left on three separate occassions. Mostly, I think the standard for debate is lower there in one important respect:
- there's no attempt at all at being polite.
For the most part, here, politeness is at a high level. And when you see people being impolite, you should take a closer look.
It's usually just a few select people. Often several of the others here have tried to get that person to tone it down or be more civil, and they may be considered a 'work in progress' in some cases.
But, ultimately, if someone doesn't violate the rules of the forum, they aren't banned over here even if they ARE rather disruptive, juvenile or rude.
That they don't really set the tone for the place is due to the fact that the vast majority of people do exercise restraint.
I'm happy to hear that Ornery has turned more civil in recent weeks.
I'm not at all interested in going back there. I thanked the mod for his insights on the last go-round, and left.
I have to say that the place is not at all friendly to outsiders and the tolerance for nasty behavior from people with high post counts is a real problem there, IMHO.
As for here, take it or leave it really.
I think Ornery teaches people some shockingly bad manners and they just assume that they are some sort of elite who can come to Hatrack and show us all how it should be done.
As I said, most of the time, these people start out causing problems for themselves and others, and then gradually figure out how to behave in this context.
I've seen three classes of really disruptive people here:
- people who join because they spotted some issue (maybe ran a Google Search) or wanted to post somewhere active to get a high number of hits on some topic related to their favorite topic. Or just wanting to be purposefully disruptive somewhere and see how funny it is. Usually not funny, of course.
- people who transfer in from Ornery and don't bother to get the lay of the land first. They use debating tactics that people here don't like and would rather not have to deal with. And the end result is either that person whines about how Hatrack isn't Ornery and leaves, or they decide they like it here and figure out how to behave.
- political and/or religious idealogues who seem to think that seeing the other person's POV amounts to treason, sacrilege, or, at the very least, a loss of points in the great debate scorecard in the sky.
There are other lesser demons here, but these are the ones I think could make the place noticeably less-than-nice at any given time, especially if someone stuck around for only a short time, or only visited the place infrequently.
Having been to both Hatrack (in its many forms) and Ornery, I can assure you, however, that the level of discussion is often quite high here and that the personal attacks are generally kept to a minimum, with, of course, some notable and flamous exceptions.
Posted by EvaXephon (Member # 8892) on :
The word 'Ornery' has been said thirty-five (thirty-six, now) times in this thread, and although I am interested in this discussion, I have no idea what it is.
Is it a website? A message board? A debate forum?
In any case, I like this place, the posters are so respectful. It is refreshing in contrast to most of the forums I visit.
Posted by K_heron (Member # 8893) on :
Ornery American is another website.
Posted by K_heron (Member # 8893) on :
I'm pretty sure that there is a link to Ornery here on Hatrack.
Back on the debate topic: the quality of a thread is totally based on the people participating. If some one isn't debating respectfully or "well", they have no right to complain about the thread.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
(*aside* Sorry everyone) Pelegius come back home to Ornery, dinner is getting cold. Leave these nice people alone. What? Okay, you can bring a couple back with you, but they seem happy enough eating here. Oh, and stop scuffing your shoes, you're kicking up dust and wearing them out.
Posted by OrneryMOd (Member # 5242) on :
You know I do not see this as adding anything to either site. I am going to ask Papa Janitor to lock this thread. I think it can serve no good for anyone involved.
OrneryMod
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
*dances in unlocked thread*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
:turns on 'It's the End of the World As We Know It':
:runs around flailing:
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: I was one of the early joiners at Ornery. I have gone back there and left on three separate occassions. Mostly, I think the standard for debate is lower there in one important respect:
- there's no attempt at all at being polite.
I don't really find 99% of Ornery to be any less polite than Hatrack, given the topics. I actually find the opposite to be true, quite often. You can't frame a lot of opinions here without running into a storm of hurt feelings, snide sarcasm, or just being totally ignored.
Ornery just happens to be blessed with one or two gifted manipulators at this point in time that suck the whole place down for me. It used to be true of Hatrack, too, but most of our jerks have moved on or post rarely now.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
In my conversation (via e-mail) with OrneryMod the last time I went there, it became clear that much of what I didn't like about Ornery was the behavior of a minority of members who, because of long tenure there, were valued by the community and had obviously earned a bit of "slack" from everyone with regard to their occassional abrasiveness.
I freely admit that my problem was my own, and not Ornery's in that respect.
But I do stand by what I said in that the reaction to the situation was not even a call for civility, it was just "oh that's just how he gets sometimes."
I'm not knocking Ornery nearly as much as it sounds. Really, the issue was with me not wanting to invest the time on yet another web BB to get to know a bunch of people enough to know when their abrasiveness was just "them being them." I can't fault Ornery for giving slack to long-standing members. I mean, I certainly get that at Hatrack and probably abuse the privilege enough to not want it to go away.
I get a little bit hot, however, when people come over from Ornery and complain about Hatrack. At the very worst, they are pretty much the same in terms of dynamics, but with different personalities involved.
At their best, they are wonderful online communities that serve very different purposes and often very different people.
As for Ornery's "style" I do pretty well if the "discussion" centers around facts, less well if people are just arguing opinions, and totally not well at all if it descends into tossing pithy slogans at each other to "score points."
I must've hit Ornery on a bad day for one particular poster, and it soiled the experience for me. But that was this time. It was my 3rd try there. I'm just not suited for the place.
And I have to say, by the way, that I think the world of OrneryMod. I don't know who OrneryMod is, but I think there's a lot to be proud of in keeping a site going this long that's dedicated to pointed political discussion. Most of the ones I've ever belonged to are long gone and died because the minority voices were all run off by screaming banshees of whichever political stripe had the most voices.
Sure, there'd be one or two people willing to take the abuse for the opposition, but they eventually get tired and leave.
Ornery is much better than that.
Posted by OrneryMOd (Member # 5242) on :
Thanks Bob.
And you probably do know who I really am.
OrneryMod
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:You can't frame a lot of opinions here without running into a storm of hurt feelings, snide sarcasm, or just being totally ignored.
Irony alert!
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
I think Ornery is more welcoming to newbies. Hatrack is full of in jokes and cliques, while at Ornery no one really likes each other. A newbie at Hatrack feels left out, but a newbie at Ornery, if treated poorly, feels like he belongs.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Dag, Good to see you.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
quote: quote:You can't frame a lot of opinions here without running into a storm of hurt feelings, snide sarcasm, or just being totally ignored.
Irony alert!
Indeed.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Perhaps one who thinks ignoring opinions is detrimental to debate ought not to make a point of ignoring the opinions of others.
Edit: Hey, JT!
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
See, there's just no place for this line of conversation to go but down, Dagonee. That's why I don't argue with you, not because your logic and your opinions are so awesome that they leave me speechless and unable to respond, but because I don't get into endless fighting and passive-aggressive bs. It sucks for me and it sucks for the forum.
I understand that I am not blameless in how you react to me. I take full responsibility for being a jerk to you sometimes, but that doesn't mean that things aren't the way they are, and that I find you extremely draining and annoying to argue with at this point. So, I just won't do it after this. I am only writing this as a courtesy to make sure that everyone understands where I'm coming from, and because I know you will almost certainly goad me about ignoring you until I say something.
People have ignored me on this forum because of things I've said. I accept that I am sometimes abrasive and rude, that I deserved being shunned. I am working on not being so, though. I do understand that sometimes people feel like they have no other recourse but to ignore others. I would like to ask that if someone finds something I've said abrasive to write me an email, though, before they do so. If you don't feel like you can do that, and I won't listen, then I guess that it's understandable that you don't.
That said, I do see that some opinions are not welcome on this forum, even when they are expressed politely. I do agree with conservatives that they often get piled on for no good reason, but it can go the other way, too.
I'm not interested in arguing with you, Dagonee. Just let it lie and let's move on, please.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:That's why I don't argue with you, not because your logic and your opinions are so awesome that they leave me speechless and unable to respond
You've denied something I've never said nor even hinted at.
quote:People have ignored me on this forum because of things I've said. I accept that I am sometimes abrasive and rude, that I deserved being shunned. I am working on not being so, though. I do understand that sometimes people feel like they have no other recourse but to ignore others. I would like to ask that if someone finds something I've said abrasive to write me an email, though, before they do so.
You had the opportunity to simply not respond to my post before. You had the opportunity to send me an email about it. Instead, you chose to post it publicly and to single me out.
quote:I'm not interested in arguing with you, Dagonee. Just let it lie and let's move on, please.
This does not mean that I will not respond to your posts, nor point out your inconsistent behavior when portions of that behavior have been directed to me.
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
Come on, Dag, let it die. There's nothing to prove here.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Man, I hate it when two people I think highly of really grate on each other.
Crud.
Besides, you're making Hatrack look bad in front of the visitors! That really hurts the tourism trade, y'know.
quote:I think Ornery is more welcoming to newbies. Hatrack is full of in jokes and cliques, while at Ornery no one really likes each other. A newbie at Hatrack feels left out, but a newbie at Ornery, if treated poorly, feels like he belongs.
I think that's a very keen insight, actually. Ornery isn't there to be "nice-nice" all the time, and there are groups in which getting insulted means you finally belong.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Unless I start the thread, I'm generally ignored. I'm just another chirping cricket.
*wonders if this means she is abrasive or boring or repetitve or just too slow of a typist to join in a timely fashion*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Shan, I actually think you might be posting at the wrong time of day.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Hey, maybe this is a good thread to ask about an observation I've made. Because of my low post count I sometimes feel a bit apprehensive about posting on some of the more ... well, I'll say it, cliqueish threads. Threads which tend to have only people who have post counts in the thousands posting in them. I must say, now that I have it written out, its not a question really but more of an observation. Therefore, I've resolved to attempt to run up my post count on meaningless threads so I can feel comfortable posting with the big boys. And there is no point in posting this, except its late, and ... hehe. Well, shameless post count addition number 139.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Therefore, I've resolved to attempt to run up my post count on meaningless threads so I can feel comfortable posting with the big boys.
Worked for me!
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Because of my low post count I sometimes feel a bit apprehensive about posting on some of the more ... well, I'll say it, cliqueish threads. Threads which tend to have only people who have post counts in the thousands posting in them.
I don't know what you're talking about, and honestly, I don't think anyone cares that you have a low post count when you (the generic, non-specific you) post in a thread. If you feel like posting, then post. Don't let something silly like a post count stop you.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Oh, I don't know, I think there are plenty of people who would decide whether to even open a thread or not depending on who started it. I suspect that if people saw a long-ish post by someone they weren't familiar with, they might be more tempted to skip it.
the most important thing in any thread though is to get the first post on a new page. That ALWAYS gets attention.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
I think Dr Strangelove's post indicates how this treatment of newbies is generally a state of mind--on their part.
In my experience--at least in the Other Side of the Hatrack River; ironically enough, I don't notice it so much on this, the allegedly "safer" side--newbies get welcomed unless their first splash is to tell us all how dumb we are or how unwelcoming we are. I certainly felt welcomed when I was a newbie, and I make a point of welcoming people I see who are new--especially on their first posts, if I happen to see them.
The fact is, it actually works the other way around. When people see a friendly, well-spoken newbie, they get excited about a new voice joining the conversation. When people have been around for a while, they have friends, but they get less attention paid to them as people tend to assume they know what these people have to say, and people respond to your posts on a superficial level, as if they had merely skimmed them. (Which can lead to misunderstandings.)
For myself, I know I was much more "popular" when I was down around, and slightly below, a thousand posts. Everybody who stays around long enough to be prolific goes through their point when they're the "flavor of the month," and then everyone just kind of shoeboxes them. Tom's the liberal who goads OSC. Let's see everything he says in just that vein. Bob is the funny guy. Dag is the legal guy. Tres/Xap is the guy who likes to argue philosophy. Tatiana is the one who always stands up for the perceived downtrodden. Jon Boy is the language geek. Belle is the southern Christian. etc etc. And it gets to the point where when these people post, the response is to their perceived "content" rather than what they actually said.
So enjoy this period of time when you are relatively unknown.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
I would like to be People Who Drive Really Slowly In the Passing Lane.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I really, really, really hate it when people assume I'm a liberal. Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
really?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I think Icarus is a big ol' attention whore, a Disney fanatic, and an anti-Castro Cuban, and I see every post he makes in that light.
In fact, this statement:
quote:So enjoy this period of time when you are relatively unknown.
was clearly an attempt to get the US to break off relations with Cuba and return all the seized property to its former owners, followed by building an amusement park and putting Icarus' name up in lights.
There, I said it.
And I almost always read Dr. Strangelove's posts because I think the screenname is so great.
I never skip a post by Tom because if I do, I won't know what the latest s-storm is all about. He's trouble with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pool!
I read Dag's posts because I'm studying for the LCAT.
I read Tres' posts because it's a lot easier to misunderstand philosophy in small bites than as a result of reading it myself in exhaustive detail.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Also, I'm ignoring Storm Saxon. Mainly because we call it "the fast lane" not "the passing lane," but also because if I get stuck behind him in traffic, I'd have to kill him. Or, at the very least, shake my tiny fist at him in mock rage!
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:what I didn't like about Ornery was the behavior of a minority of members who, because of long tenure there, were valued by the community and had obviously earned a bit of "slack" from everyone with regard to their occassional abrasiveness.
This problem here on Hatrack has never ceased to bother me. I hoped that it would, but it never has.
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
well, maybe if you weren't such a newbie...
Actually, I believe that this kind of thing DOES go on here, and I don't know if it really is "bad" so much as it is a natural outcome of people building relationships. I mean, I've known some of the people here over 5 years and they know me (more or less). If I'm cranky one day, they aren't going to just break off relationships because of it. Someone coming into that kind of situation infrequently or as a complete neophyte is going to feel like an outsider and, if they said the same sort of thing would probably be struck by the reaction they got versus the one that, say, I got.
Not sure how to change it, but acknowledging that it DOES happen is not a bad thing to do either.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
That, and maybe they remember your previous posts and know that you aren't always like that/this is a touchy subject for you/you're generally a good person and maybe had a lapse. Doesn't mean you won't get chastised for it, but it might be more gentle.
Best way to remedy this problem if you feel you're on the wrong end of it is to post more and make more friends. Posted by aiua (Member # 7825) on :
quote: Don't let something silly like a post count stop you.
It's not so much the post count as the fact that.. you still feel a newb. Like there's something you've missed and don't want to make a fool of yourself by posting something someone others've said a million times before. Or even something that's completely off topic. I know that's definately not what the atmosphere's supposed to bo, but sometime's it's like being in a bad dream, the kind where you're naked in front of people you respect and wish would respect you.
Back on the original topic, I think that most of the so-called name calling is a result of misunderstanding. If you read further after the name calling there's usually an apology and no one leaves with hard feelings. Which is something you'll never find at ornery because everything is so closely knit. Which, again, might be a reason you think it's less respectful. Because, in a way, it can be. It's somewhat about knowing who you can and can't kid around with. In RL I know who I can joke with, but here I'm not yet sure of the bounds, so I refrain from it. You can kid with your mom, but maybe not with her friends, because you don't know each other yet. Here you can work on meeting these people, but at Ornery it seems like everyone has walls up, no one wants to let people close.
But then again I could be completely wrong. I'm still a newbie. Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Best way to remedy this problem if you feel you're on the wrong end of it is to post more and make more friends.
I find that interacting more and making more friends is in fact an excellent solution to MOST of life's problems.
--------
quote: In RL I know who I can joke with, but here I'm not yet sure of the bounds, so I refrain from it.
This, by the way, is excellently responsible of you, and I applaud you for it. Of course, the mere fact that you've had this thought means you're probably already good to go. *grin*
Posted by Another Chirping Cricket (Member # 8905) on :
see - here i am posting at the wrong time again *grin*
Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
"Back on the original topic, I think that most of the so-called name calling is a result of misunderstanding. If you read further after the name calling there's usually an apology and no one leaves with hard feelings. Which is something you'll never find at ornery because everything is so closely knit."
Given the number of times I've apologized on ornery, I resent this remark Posted by Paul Goldner (Member # 1910) on :
Our standard greeting these days, over at ornery, for new posters is "Welcome to Ornery. You are wrong." Doesn't matter what the person has posted, or in what context. Thats our greeting. And we sortof like it.
I don't know how many bad seeds have transferred from ornery to hatrack, because I don't follow here as closely as I follow there, but several of our truly awful posters originated on hatrack. So the flow goes both ways. Some of those people were jerks here on hatrack, and some, in part I think because of threads like this, felt that they could go over to ornery and let the abrasiveness really fly. I don't think we appreciate that anymore then you guys appreciate it here, although we have different standards for what is considered unduly abrasive on ornery then what is considered unduly abrasive here. Which isn't surpising, given the nature of the two forums, and the nature of the communities. Hatrack is a dinner party. Ornery is the smoke filled room AFTER the dinner party.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
I feel as if I should clarify (though in reality this is yet another shameless post intent on running up my post count. hehe). I don't feel excluded. Its much like aiua said. And also Icarus. It's my perception of some threads as being a gathering of old friends which I am reluctant to break in upon because I'm not quite sure how I'll be recieved. It is an unfounded reluctance, which is not based on anything particularly I've observed here or in the least based on anything anyone has said, but there it is. In fact, I would go so far as to say the opposite. Everywhere I've posted I've felt welcome and unintrusive. However, the feeling of reluctance, and, dare I say it, for me personally a feeling of inferiority, persists.
So, if I am to attempt to achieve some semblance of a point to this post, I want to make it clear that in my experience on Hatrack, I have never felt frowned upon by anyone, or excluded by anyone, except perhaps myself. The reluctance I feel is a result of some innate cautionary instinct which is afraid of being rejected by people I truly enjoy and in most cases respect. Hatrack has done nothing to feed that fear of rejection. It has served only to alleviate it. And yes, I agree, the only way to be rid of it is to post more and make more friends, which I certainly hope to do. And finally, in a perhaps vain attempt at bringing this post all the way back to the original topic, I would like to applaud the Hatrack community for making itself a welcoming environment. While I am in no position to speak as I have only briefly visited Ornery once, I would think it a completely idiotic (infer what you will) idea to attempt to bring its standards over here.
And that is all I have to say, since it is getting late and I feel as though I am rambling. By the way, I absolutely love this thread.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Dr. Strangelove,
I find your post to be both strange and lovely. Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
hehehe . . .
-o-
Tom, you do realize that I was specifically pointing out simplistic generalizations, right?
-o-
quote:I think Icarus is a big ol' attention whore, a Disney fanatic, and an anti-Castro Cuban, and I see every post he makes in that light.
'Tis true. But you forgot to mention that I do community theatre and am constantly trying to get on the TV show Who Wants to be a Millionaire? (The restraining order hasn't slowed me down.)
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Why would he need to mention community theater if he mentioned attention whore? Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Tom, you do realize that I was specifically pointing out simplistic generalizations, right?
Yes. I was just mentioning that I hate it. *grin*
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Why would he need to mention community theater if he mentioned attention whore?
touché Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Besides, Icky, I figured people would just disbelieve me and think it was all exageration if I told the whole truth.
The sad fact is that he's been hit with restraining orders from the regular TV version of Millionaire and the MGM-Disney-Studios version of it at Walt Disney World.
And he's got an enabler for a spouse! Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote: but several of our truly awful posters originated on hatrack.
I resent that!
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Your every pun thread cries 'Guilty', sir.
Shame! Shame on you!
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
Fie on you both, and a pox on both your houses.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Not the pox. Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
That was rather harsh, wasn't it?
Sorry.
*takes back the pox*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
I was more upset by the "fie."
But as long as we're being kinder and gentler, I'll just settle for a mild chest cold on your garden shed.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by aiua: Like there's something you've missed and don't want to make a fool of yourself by posting something someone others've said a million times before.
Believe me, it's all been posted one million times before. One more time won't kill anyone. Except maybe for Dead_Horse.
-Bok
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
*breathes a sigh of relief that she has no garden shed*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
quote:breathes a sigh of relief that she has no garden shed
Hmm...you sound a bit congested there. You sure you don't have a garden shed somewhere?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
*refrains from taking the thread in a naughty direction by the slimmest bit of self-restraint*
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
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