Here's something I've always wondered about: Peter and Valentine were supposed to be just barely disqualified from attending Battle School--especially Peter. But if Ender was by far the most perfect candidate to ever attend, and they were just a bit less perfect than him (and they are obviously both still insansely intelligent) then how is it that really crappy commanders like Bonzo were chosen over Peter and Valentine? Basically, I can buy that they just didn't quite qualify, but if that's the case, then doesn't that suggest that EVERYONE in Battle School was more adept than Peter or Valentine? I know that everyone will probably say that they couldn't be in Battle school at the same time as Ender, but the IF didn't know whether Ender would be any better than his siblings. Why wouldn't they have sent Peter to Battle School when he reached the normal age, and just take him out if his sibling was that much better than he was?
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
Peter was too mean spirited and Valentine was too nice. Besides basic "intelligence" in academia, a lot of other factors went into the choices for picking the Battle School candidates.
And Bonzo wasn't really dumb, just foolish: we saw the story from Enders (pluralization?) PoV, which would make anyone who acts selfishly seem stupid by comparison.
Posted by WntrMute (Member # 7556) on :
quote:Originally posted by cheiros do ender: Peter was too mean spirited and Valentine was too nice. Besides basic "intelligence" in academia, a lot of other factors went into the choices for picking the Battle School candidates.
And Bonzo wasn't really dumb, just foolish: we saw the story from Enders (pluralization?) PoV, which would make anyone who acts selfishly seem stupid by comparison.
SPOILER!!! (mea maxima culpa, mea maxima culpa, I didn't think.) (It is a very tangential part of the conversation though, I think.....hope. Whatever.) . . . . . . . . . . . . . or is it too late now? . . Well, later Mazer tells Peter that it wasn't so much that he was too mean, it was that he didn't have charisma. They needed a leader, a team builder. It's in SotG.
[ December 24, 2005, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: WntrMute ]
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Peter and Val should have gone to Battle School. But with Ender, Graff et al screwed up the system. They intended a Wiggin child to be the one who went all the way from the beginning, so they needed a certain personality, not just a kid who would was smart enough to be average, and make a fair commander.
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
"It's in SotG."
spoiler! Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Aw, whenever you let a book sit around too long, it spoils all by itself.
If it had just been a matter of intelligence in the specified fields, of course Val and Peter would have been chosen.
And even so, they probably would have been chosen except ... the family was a special case. A result of a kind of ad hoc breeding program Graff was running. He knew that Peter and Valentine COULD go to Battle School; but he preferred to use them on Earth.
It's never said in any of the books, but if Ender had not been suitable, Peter would have been sent after all. But one of the real dangers with Peter is that he could be expected to guess some things they didn't want him guessing. Whereas with Valentine, to do what she would need to do would destroy her. Graff (correctly, as it turned out) figured they could be better used outside Battle School ... and that it would be good for Peter NOT to be chosen at all, rather than to be chosen and not quite make it to the top ...
Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
Hmm, so Graff really *is* the mastermind that the Battle Schoolers keep accusing him of being...
You know, I've got to say that Graff is one of the most interesting characters in the series. Ever since his argument with Ender's "mom" (can't remember the name of the person who first took care of him in school), over the justification of their harsh training, I think that Graff has almost epitomized the central theme of the early Ender books.
After all, wasn't the theme of Ender's Game simply: Do the ends justify the means? And the suffering endured by those who said yes?
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
To OSC: If they were kept out of the program because Graff "figured they could be better used outside Battle School" then how were they used? Or did Graff just figure that they would do something important (like, oh, I don't know, create online identities that significantly impact world opinion) and that when they did he would have the information about their personalities to affect them? I know this is nit-picky. I was just wondering whether you had something in mind or if it just worked out this way.
Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
I recall Mazer saying that he knew Peter would "get to the centre of things". He didn't really detail further than that.
Just read that section last night ^_^
Posted by trance (Member # 6623) on :
Hey Card, you should really throw that lil' explanation of yours that you posted into your next ender book-"Ender in Exile". People keep asking that cliche question and it would finally end. Thats all I gotta say. Buh-bye.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
If I remember correctly, Peter was not chosen not just for lack of charisma, but more importantly for lack of empathy. More than just a brilliant leader, they needed a brilliant empathizer.
George McClellan (sp?) was a good leader of men, from accounts of his soldiers, but terrible at knowing what his enemies would think and do.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
There are other reasons that Valentine was not inducted into battle school, like the fact that through her empathy she would simply blend into the mix of the unnoticed students.
Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
I expect they knew she'd be necessary to keep Peter in line at first as well.
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