Was Ender a Monster, Saint, or a God.
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
Neither, in the end I think he turned out to be but human.
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
Yeah, Ender was none of those. I, on the other hand, am a Monster God.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
He was a very smart kind thrown into some tough situations, and did the best that he could. As he got older he tried to learn from his past and make up for what he felt were his past failings.
He tended to worry more about others than himself, and carried around quite a bit of guilt. Though I guess nearly committing "xenocide" would tend to do that to a person, even if it was on accident.
Posted by Vasslia Cora (Member # 7981) on :
I can't help but wonder if at some level Ender knew that last game wasn't a game.
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
Spoiler Warning--Children of the Mind/ Xenocide
I think in a way, Ender really was a combination of Peter and Valentine. I don't think he was innately this way, but because he was told that he existed to be the link between these two, he defined every part of himself as stemming from Peter or Valentine.
I think it was because he spent his first life--as Ender--rejecting those Peter qualities that he had to live a second life AS Peter.
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
I think Ender was a fantastically written fictional character who would fall under none of those three categories.
Monster- killed probably a billion sentient creatures. On accident, and then repented- so no.
Saint- not dead until very end. No miracles claimed after his death. Not applicable for sainthood.
God- He wasn't omniscient. He wasn't omnipotent. Just a smart guy trying to do good in the world (or universe) so No.
He's just that- a smart guy trying to do good in the world.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I think your definition of "saint" is a little strict. By more relaxed definitions, Ender was definitely saintly -- going so far in CotM to be literally selfless.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
I agree entirely TomDavidson, Shawshank is being a little to strict.
Posted by Monroe by Warhol (Member # 8999) on :
People kept on putting Ender on a pedastle; his jeesh, the teachers, everyone-- when in reality he wasn't a god, or a saint, or even a grown man. He was a genious boy who was tricked into destroying a population.
How is that saintly?
Don't get me wrong, I love Ender to pieces. But he ain't no saint, god, or monster. He was taken advantage of by the adults in the IF.
My conclusion? That makes him human.
[ January 08, 2006, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Monroe by Warhol ]
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
If only all of us could be as human as him.
Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
I think that such categories as saint or monster can't be applied to him, because much of what he did (in Ender's Game, not later) wasn't really his choice. He just did what he had to in order to stay alive and sane (other things - the xenocide - he did unconsciously, so it doesn't really count, imho). We could discuss it if he did it all (or something else) consciously and willingly.
And I always thought it, I don't know: kind of _tragic_, that this brilliant child who was able to save the human race was nonetheless USED by others, much less inteligent...
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Thats because he was a child and still believed, at least in part, what the adults/teachers told him to do.
Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
I don't know... surely some part of it was due to his being a child, but I think even if he was an adult he still wouldn't have been able to choose for himself at all times. That's what's sad: no matter how smart you are, you can never see and understand it all. Valentine said at one point something like that: everyone is manipulated. the only thing we can do is to let ourselves be manipulated by those who love us.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Well said, but I prefer to think that I have a little more free will than that.
Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
I think morally we do (free will: it's always our choice how to react), but technically it may be more complicated
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