Could it be possible that Novinha and her family are descendants of Bean's and Petra's kids that where still on earth after Bean left?
Cause if you Novinha and her family do have charactorists that are like Bean's. And Bean's "normal" kids where raise in Brasil and the people of Lusitania are of Brazilian desendents. Plus Novinha and her family do seem to be the smartest poeple there.
[ January 10, 2006, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Orson Scott Card ]
Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
Hmm, in all fairness I don't think Novinha is smart enough for that. Sure, her kids are bright scientists, and Novinha is shown as being very smart from a very young age, her life doesn't seem to portray the... understanding of other people that the Jeesh kids seemed to have...
But maybe I've forgotten, I just recall being so terribly frustrated at that woman.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
What was the name of Bean's brother who was in battle school but wasn't smart enough to be in Ender's Jeesh?
Anyway, he was as smart as Bean would have been without Anton's key turned.
So I don't think that Petra's and Bean's descendants would necessarily be super geniuses.
So, sure, some of the people in Lucitania could have been descended from them, but it doesn't really make much of a difference either way.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
I don't think OSC wrote the books with that in mind. Didn't he write Novinha before he wrote that Bean and Petra would get togethor? And I really don't see any reason why he would do that. Barely anyone would get it and it doesn't add anything to the story, IMHO.
Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :
porteiro, Bean's bro was Nikolai.
I think this conjecture is certainly possible, if you look at genetic diffusion. Humans are not asexual creatures, so some of the intelligence could have diffused through inter-IQ breeding, as Bean's children may not have found other people to mate with of at least a 160 IQ...
Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
1 Maccabees 5:4, Apocrypha, King James Version: "Also he remembered the injury of the children of Bean, who had been a snare and an offence unto the people, in that they lay in wait for them in the ways."
No, I'm not kidding.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Blades with all due respect, Petra and Beans normal children remained in Armenia... NOT BRAZIL!!!!!!!
p.s. I already had a column on Beans descendents if you had bothered to check
-Advent
Posted by tmservo (Member # 8552) on :
quote:Blades with all due respect, Petra and Beans normal children remained in Armenia... NOT BRAZIL!!!!!!!
You haven't read the books in a while
In Shadow of the Giant, Peter moves the children to Brazil, because to him "Armenia is not home" and he was "going home" and couldn't leave the children with no one. Bean's parents were taking care of Petra & Bean's children in the small house they had on the Hegemon compound, which had been expanded by combining two other buildings. Peter made an effort to walk from the Hegemon offices daily to play with the children.
He could not have done that in Armenia. This, as she said was "home".. Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Sorry Blades. And tmservo thanks for the correction.
I really need to read the Shadow books again.
Posted by Eva Scrye (Member # 8960) on :
Heh, odd reference Taalcon. Though technically that's only Apocrypha to Protestants ^_- It's in the Catholic Bible.
Which... by the way, came before the Protestant one.
But let's not start that here.
I'm not even Catholic... ^_-
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I wonder, what do you see this adding to the stories? Like, why would anyone want this to be included?
To me, this (and various other unrealistic ideas that people have linking logically unrelated parts - like Path or the Descoladors and Bean's genetic manipulation) would only decrease my enjoyment of the books.
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
We don't want it to be included we're just putting the question out there. No one here would ever dream of changing an OSC book. For if they do God himself will come on this forum and strike them down! Or at least give them a good talking to. Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
quote:Originally posted by Eva Scrye: Heh, odd reference Taalcon. Though technically that's only Apocrypha to Protestants ^_- It's in the Catholic Bible.
Well aware. Although you'll be hard pressed to find an edition of the King James Version translation of those books with the title 'Deuterocanonical books', or even integrated within the Old Testament, like Catholic Bibles are. And a KJV edition is what I was referencing.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Sorry, but I finally couldn't stand it and corrected the spelling of "descendants" in the first post and header of this thread. The proofreader in me finally overwhelmed the linguistic libertarian.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
The apocrypha are treated separately even in the Catholic translations of the bible, not integrated into the text. And they were called apocrypha even before protestant bibles started leaving them out. It's not that Catholics "believe in them" and protestants don't; it's that Catholics treat the apocrypha as having some (though less) value, and protestants, especially those who want an inerrant bible, don't regard them as "worthy" of inclusion. To Catholics, the bible means something quite different from what it means to protestants; to Catholics, the Bible is not superior to Church Tradition or the authoritative statements of Popes and church councils, but all are sources of the will of God, while to Protestants, only scripture has that authority. It's one of the reasons they can't get back together <grin>.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Wasn't that helpful? (No, don't answer that.)
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Seriously, intelligence includes many components, of which only some are measured by IQ tests. Just as athletes can be brilliant at one activity and only so-so at others, yet STILL be great athletes, so also someone can be truly gifted intellectually, but not in all areas.
IQ intelligence is an interesting indicator and predictor of school performance, but not everything that it measures proves you're "smart." It also tests how relaxed you are when being tested; how QUICKLY you perform mental operations; how obedient you are to other people's orders; how well you can concentrate. If you lack in one of THESE capacities, you might be just as smart in the official "subject matter" of that portion of the IQ test as someone who gets a much higher score than you.
So in calculating how intelligence "diffuses" through interbreeding, it's good to remember that Bean's intelligence (like Petra's) had been tested only in certain areas that pertained to their military mission. In addition they also had whatever mental weaknesses or also-ran attributes were part of their brains. Bean's hyper-genius was in an incredible depth of memory and instant recall - the ability to make connections incredibly quickly and remember practically everything - in combination with intelligence of such a native caliber that his twin, Nikolai, was also able to qualify for Battle School even without the augmentation.
So the combination of Bean and Petra, where Anton's Key was not present, might result in super military geniuses; or might result in perfectly average kids; or some combination thereof.
And their kids who DID have Anton's Key turned would certainly be brilliant, due to that augmentation, but might NOT be brilliant in precisely the same areas or to the same degree as either Bean or Petra.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:No one here would ever dream of changing an OSC book.
I would. Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
quote:The apocrypha are treated separately even in the Catholic translations of the bible, not integrated into the text.
Actually, I don't believe this is correct. I have a New Jerusalem Bible (a catholic translation) in which Tobit and Judith directly follow Nehemiah, and the version of Esther is the ammended Greek version. Following come 1 & 2 Maccabees. Wisdom of Solomon and Sirach are placed with the wisdom books, and the Additions to Daniel, and Baruch are in with the prophetic books.
I believe this is also how it is with the New American Bible, the official English Language Catholic translation.
I don't know how long this has been a practice, but it seems to have become a bit of a Catholic standard...
Posted by Jeff (Member # 4298) on :
I've always secretly thought that the descoladores would end up being Bean's descendants. I don't remember my full theory, but it involved Bean's descendants needing to change thei genetic coding in order to stay alive, and the descoladores are already adept at that. I dont know... vague connection?
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
Oh, I think this has been brought up before, but the descolada virus altered Lusitania what, thousands of years before humans reached it? It sort of makes it unlikely that Bean and Co. created it...unless they also invented a time machine while they were twiddling their fingers in space.
Posted by ReddwarfVII (Member # 8879) on :
"So the combination of Bean and Petra, where Anton's Key was not present, might result in super military geniuses; or might result in perfectly average kids; or some combination thereof.
And their kids who DID have Anton's Key turned would certainly be brilliant, due to that augmentation, but might NOT be brilliant in precisely the same areas or to the same degree as either Bean or Petra."
Actually, it's possible that half of the people on Lusitania could have been descendants of Bean and Petra. Especially when you consider the amount of time that elapsed from their birth on Earth and the founding of the colony. Even if it was a linear heritage, Bean and Petra's kids would have literally thousands of decendants.
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