Hatrack River Forum: Bean's death

This is topic Bean's death in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

There seems to be a problem with it. To wit, we are told that eventually his heart will be unable to pump blood around his body. Well, there are two obvious solutions to this : One, install a mechanical and more powerful heart - surely the technology of 200 years hence is up to this. Or, two, just have Bean lie down! Blood cannot pool in his feet if his feet are at the level of his head! OK, so he can't be physically active anymore; deal with it. Plenty of people are bedridden.

I haven't actually read SOTG yet, so possibly this criticism is made irrelevant by further information revealed in that book. If so, please no spoilers. [Smile]

Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :

Lol.

Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :

I would respond but I would undoubtedly give away parts of the novel, I think that you may understand the situation better once you read the book, but I cant really say, due to the fact that I dont know the situation.

I am sure that cleared everything up... [Wall Bash]

Its too late....

I need to [Sleep]

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

I can't tell if you are being serious or parodying a certain type of post the appears here from time to time. [Wink]

But in the case of replacing the heart, circulating a certain amount of blood would require higher blood pressure which would blow out the kidneys. Replacing extremities with robotic prostheses could also prolong the his life. But Bicentennial Man was already done. And it wouldn't really result in Bicentennial. I'm not sure if this is the solution Card referred to in some of the pre-story writing, or if he referred to what he really went with.

But the other thought that comes to mind is him getting his thyroid out and becoming someone who has a suppressed metabolism.

Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :

King I would love to answer your question. Because I ,unlike Bear know the answer. But I've already given somebody else leaking info on one of the books, and if you do want the answer just tell me and I will do so. Otherwise I think I'll just leave this subject alone (otherwise I might let something slip).

Posted by Racoon (Member # 9051) on :

First off, it's a book. Second, I think Bean would rather be dead than bedridden.

Posted by starter (Member # 9073) on :

Dude...do you *have* to put a spoiler in the topic title?

Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :

Starter, if you'll read on to the rest of his post, you will realize that he said he has not yet read SotG yet, and therefore has no spoilers to offer. Surely you know of Bean's condition, and of his seemingly inevitable and impending death. You would only not know this, should you have only gotten halfway through Ender's Shadow, which I am sure you have (though i have been known to be wrong [Razz]

).

Even still, KoM explicitly stated that he does not want any spoilers, and therefore, by common sense, one could deduce that he would offer no spoilers in his statements as well.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

Actually, I must admit that I did not think of it. But yes, I do not strictly speaking know that Bean does, in fact, die.

Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :

Do you ever have a moment where you feel completely and totally mentally retarted. I have seen the abreviation KoM now for a long time and just NOW realized it was short for King of Men. [Wall Bash]

Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :

*pat pat* *pets the Orange Peguin*

Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :

[Smile]

Posted by MrMojoDriver (Member # 8852) on :

I believe that traveling in space (assuming his craft does NOT have constant accelaration or a rotating habitat ring to provide gravity) will have a degenarative effect on Bean's condition. Without gravity to move blood down through his body his heart is going to have to work harder, hence shortening his already dwindling life span.

Posted by starter (Member # 9073) on :

Hector:

- I didn't read the rest of the post/thread in fear of being spoilt further

- I don't (or as it happens "didn't") 'surely' know of Bean's condition as I am only a third of the way into "Ender's Shadow".

With these two points in mind, I think it was fair play on my part to call it indecent that he inserts a spoiler in the title of the topic. I don't care for the various spoiler threads because at least then you can skip over certain posts; however that's quite hard to do when a topic's title spells out the apparent inevitable death of a major character.

Posted by HectorVictor (Member # 9003) on :

Well in that case, I apologize starter, and can only say then that I hope you like the rest of ES, and continue to read the rest of the shadow series so you can get the full effect of Bean's story!

Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :

All humans die. Presumably one could head ANY post with "death of __(character name)___" because if they are meant to represent humans, they would eventually die.

And since there is no existing book in which Bean dies, I'm not sure what the title line of this thread would be spoiling.

Meanwhile, the proposed "solutions" would not work. If a body KEEPS GROWING indefinitely, then whatever problem you "solve," the solution either creates more problems, or becomes inadequate when the growth outstrips the fix.

Plus, Bean has to be put in a box of finite size to be transported through space. Eventually he will fill it. Then what?

There is a point where rational characters will simply accept that they are dying and will not go to ridiculous lengths to prolong their life.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

quote:
And since there is no existing book in which Bean dies, I'm not sure what the title line of this thread would be spoiling.

I think I did mention that information in SotG would be spoilerish, though. Thank you kindly. [Smile]

quote:
Meanwhile, the proposed "solutions" would not work. If a body KEEPS GROWING indefinitely, then whatever problem you "solve," the solution either creates more problems, or becomes inadequate when the growth outstrips the fix.

Yes, yes, all life is a succession of temporary expedients. But with sufficient ingenuity you can extend any one cause of death until a completely different one hits you. Ideally, old age.

quote:
Plus, Bean has to be put in a box of finite size to be transported through space. Eventually he will fill it. Then what?

Come now, a space ship large enough for humans to walk around in, and to carry a Dr Device that's apparently the size of an old-style nuke, will not be in trouble from this for a good few decades. He could easily die of old age in that timespan.

quote:
There is a point where rational characters will simply accept that they are dying and will not go to ridiculous lengths to prolong their life.

Sure, but when the solution is as simple as lying down, I don't think that point has been reached.

quote:
Without gravity to move blood down through his body his heart is going to have to work harder, hence shortening his already dwindling life span.

Um, no. Completely and utterly wrong. The heart needs to pump the blood against friction (both ways) and gravity (one way). Take away the gravity, and the friction on the down path becomes harder, true. But since gravity is by several orders of magnitude the more difficult task, you win far more on the swings than you lost on the roundabouts.

Posted by starter (Member # 9073) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
All humans die. Presumably one could head ANY post with "death of __(character name)___" because if they are meant to represent humans, they would eventually die.

And since there is no existing book in which Bean dies, I'm not sure what the title line of this thread would be spoiling.

Sure, but death 'in the book' is quite often different to 'natural death' that all humans face; the former is a spoiler and the latter is not. For example, if I made a thread titled "Qui Gon's Death" in an Episode I forum it would be labelled as a spoiler even though we all know that people (including superpowerjedis) - die.

Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :

quote:
Meanwhile, the proposed "solutions" would not work. If a body KEEPS GROWING indefinitely, then whatever problem you "solve," the solution either creates more problems, or becomes inadequate when the growth outstrips the fix.

Plus, Bean has to be put in a box of finite size to be transported through space. Eventually he will fill it. Then what?

You're good.

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

I find the question of whether Bean would rather die or be bedridden interesting.

Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :

I think he will simply become a giant space faring whale after the next step in his unhumaness is to find out he has the ability to live in the vacuume of space.

Posted by dab (Member # 7847) on :

bean will become brain from teenage mutant ninja turtles and will live as his brain in the stomache of a robot. Ok, i think thats the nerdiest thing i have ever said in my life. [Smile]

Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 0range7Penguin:
I think he will simply become a giant space faring whale after the next step in his unhumaness is to find out he has the ability to live in the vacuume of space.

Brings to mind another fictitious space whale: an experience in self-discovery, a long descent, and an enormous, disgusting splat at the end. [Big Grin]

Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :

i think the vast differences between Card and Adams have already been discussed in another thread.

(and the whale to which you refer was not in space, it was within the atmosphere of a planet)

Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :

I stand corrected. [Smile]

Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :

*spoiler* [Wink]

The problem is not only that Bean won't stop growing. Or to die or not to die. It's the pain, too.
His skull doesn't grow as fast as his brain, he already suffers from headaches in SOTG. Because of his fontanella, his skull is still able to adapt to the growing brain, but there'll be a time, when there's nothing but skin to protect the brain. (Remembers me of the brains of the Marsians in "Mars Attacks"... bah.)

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

I STILL say I want Bean to wind up as a big floating brain filling the ghastly, pulating corridors of the spaceship, his children raised to tend and prune his bulging lobes as they drift weightlessly through his cortex. [Wink]

Posted by Jimbo the Clown (Member # 9251) on :

KoM,it seems like you think old age itself causes death. As I understand it, if one is in space without gravity, the body will not wear itself out as quickly, and old age would be a moot point(at the normal times of death, at least.)

Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :

No wonder Jordan answers so many times with Read and find out

Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :

Death would still occur in space without a significant lengthening of life, (except for bean) because the telluric chains that are the instructions which hold your genetic blueprints break down over time, and that is what causes old age, the creation of new cells is not as effective, and the immune system breaks down and such.

Atleast that is what I understand from research.

Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :

I think you are referring to 'telomeres', whose adjective would be, presumably, 'telomeric'. 'Telluric' means 'having to do with Earth'. [/nitpick]

Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :

That is what I was talking about, I was not positive of the name so I threw out one that sounded familiar.

Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :

but still if bean continued at his current rate of growth - 7 feet or so by age 16 how tall would he be in his thirties? In the books his growth is described not as being like puberty just equal amounts of growth.