All this talk about war has inspired me to write a story along the premise of a rebellion on America’s youth. I haven’t worked out a lot of the details yet but I know that it wouldn’t be just some minor uprising in a small town; I’m thinking full scale organized invasion and capture of America, and eventually having so much power that they own the entire country. And the end will be their leader’s downfall, which will be caused by his intense arrogance and malice. So I’m thinking the main character can be a good person in the beginning, and the government can be show as a disgusting of great tyranny, oppressing the people of America and most of the world. And when the main character becomes ruler of America he in turn becomes the tyrant.
I’d like to know what you guys think of my idea, and feel free to give me suggestions. -DS P.S: I could call it "American McGee", or "American Dream"
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Sounds very formulaic.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: Sounds very formulaic.
What do you mean?
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I mean, "It sounds like an idea that has been explored in different novels, in excess. So much so, that it would not be interesting to read and would just become part of the general muddle of politically speculative fiction."
Yeah, that.
Posted by Steev (Member # 6805) on :
Well, you got the formula down. All you have left to do is make up the "HOW does it happen" part. I would hope that you avoid 1-dimensional characters. I would want to be so immersed in the main character that I would completely not realize that he was turning bad. And near the very end switch the POV so that we can get a sense for how corrupt he had become. Sounds like a daunting task. But then I'm not much of a writer. (edit: it took me so long to write this that what I had to say is now old news, *sigh*)
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
The end "he smiled slowly to himself feeling the 50. calibur bullet tear through his stomach. 'so this is the end...' As they stormed through the compound killing all of his friends and fallowers he heard their screams echo through his skull and he knew, that yes, it was over, finally over."
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I don't like it. Too cliche. And ending a story with the main character killing themself rarely works. And proper spelling and grammar are a good idea too.
Aside from that, you've got it. Kind of.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I don't like it. Too cliche. And ending a story with the main character killing themself rarely works. And proper spelling and grammar are a good idea too.
Aside from that, you've got it. Kind of.
I fixed the spelling, and hes not killing himself, you can't kill yourself with a 50. cal, there's no pistol that can handle something that big. He gets mowed down by the next force trying to take America
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
It's like a never ending cycle of violence
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:Originally posted by Descolada Survivor:
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I don't like it. Too cliche. And ending a story with the main character killing themself rarely works. And proper spelling and grammar are a good idea too.
Aside from that, you've got it. Kind of.
I fixed the spelling, and hes not killing himself, you can't kill yourself with a 50. cal, there's no pistol that can handle something that big. He gets mowed down by the next force trying to take America
Your punctuation, captilization, and grammar are still really screwy.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Here's the problem: it's trite, and you aren't a very good writer yet.
That said, you're clearly young. Go ahead and write it. No one ever wrote anything worth reading without writing a hundred things that're crap, so you might as well get started.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers:
quote:Originally posted by Descolada Survivor:
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I don't like it. Too cliche. And ending a story with the main character killing themself rarely works. And proper spelling and grammar are a good idea too.
Aside from that, you've got it. Kind of.
I fixed the spelling, and hes not killing himself, you can't kill yourself with a 50. cal, there's no pistol that can handle something that big. He gets mowed down by the next force trying to take America
Your punctuation, captilization, and grammar are still really screwy.
Yeah I skimmed over it and found the tore thing and changed that.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
Tom basically summed up what I was trying to say. Only he was nicer about it.
Edit:
But the captilization! Unh...captilization.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Here's the problem: it's trite, and you aren't a very good writer yet.
That said, you're clearly young. Go ahead and write it. No one ever wrote anything worth reading without writing a hundred things that're crap, so you might as well get started.
Naw, I'm not going to write it yet. I have a file full of ideas that I will look at once or twice a year and reflect on them and decide whether or not to keep them longer.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
But the captilization! Unh...captilization.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
Yes the reason why my spelling and grammar suck so bad is that they dont teach those kind of things in school anymore. My school is filled with people who speak an odd pseudo-english jargon filled with "ain't"s and "bro"s. Maybe I should read the dictionary or something.
Posted by LadyDove (Member # 3000) on :
Not the dictionary. If I were you, I'd read anything that you enjoy and read it out loud. Unless you're trying to write dialect, I'd avoid anything that is heavy with dialect or jargon.
Posted by Will B (Member # 7931) on :
There's no reason you can't do a great job of an old plot. (And a good thing -- I don't think there are any new plots!) OSC speaks of a "cliche shelf" in brainstorming for plots. Your first idea for a particular character, or plot complication, or whatever, may well be a cliche. OK, so what else could it be? If that's a cliche, keep going.
I do this myself. As soon as I think of something, I think, oh, yeah, that was done in such-and-such. So I keep going.
This is only slightly different from the plot of the film Red Dawn. The difference is that in Red Dawn we focused on the youth, and we didn't ever meet the oppressor.
How could you make it new? How about an oppressor who is doing his dead-level best to help America? Leaders of the rebellion who are less than saintly? Conflict between the rebels and people who want the war to be fought somewhere else? There are lots of possibilities.
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
"The Capitilization Rap"
Captilization! Unh...captilization. From the great state of Ohio to the capitol of our nation! Everybody's going crazy for captilizizzle-ation. What is it? No one knows. It's a little like migration but more like a sensation, It's captilization. Unh! Don't be hatin'. You're just a punk compared to captilization!
etc.
(I wish I could have posted that anonymously.)
Posted by TL (Member # 8124) on :
If that doesn't get me into OSC's boot camp, I give up.
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
*one handed clap*
(only I know what that sounds like. )
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
It doesn't sound realistic. The American military could handle it. Ever heard of Shey's (sp?) rebellion, or the civil war?
A youth rising couldn't overtake the nation.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
quote:Originally posted by cheiros do ender: *one handed clap*
(only I know what that sounds like. )
No, you aren't. I have three friends who can do it.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reticulum: It doesn't sound realistic. The American military could handle it. Ever heard of Shey's (sp?) rebellion, or the civil war?
A youth rising couldn't overtake the nation.
What if the military was part of it?
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
They wouldn't be involved. They would never join a youth rebellion. If, IF they miraculously did, other nations would help tremendoudly, and this may sound ignorant: It wouldn't happen, our military wouldn't HELP!!!
How would this happen? Why would the military join a rebellion, and a YOUTH rebellion at that?
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
The only way youth would overthrow their elders would be by slavery or extinction (the latter being soewhat hypocritical), after acts of terrorists. There's no logical reason for society to be organized youth first.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
DS--
The idea isn't all that original-- it's 'Lord of the Flies' on a national scale. But the American military (or even the *Dutch* military, for goodness sakes) is a bit tougher than wild pigs. You're going to need an explanation as to why the Marines aren't up to the task of taking care of Rebel Johnny.
There's lots of stuff you can draw on for inspiration-- I suggest King's 'The Stand,' and the aforementioned 'Lord of the Flies.' Maybe 'Earth Abides,' too, and Gibson's 'Neuromancer.' 'Virtual Light' is a good one, too.
Those books all deal with countercultures and how they can take control (or lose control, or survive) in society.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
>>>>Why would the military join a rebellion, and a YOUTH rebellion at that?
Much of the army is made up of youths. What age are you thinking, like 13? I'm seeing more 16-24. That agegroup, if there were sufficient reason and a good reason, I wouldn't scoff at. *surly 19-year-old stare*
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
>>>>There's no logical reason for society to be organized youth first.
There's a saying from somewhere I'm remembering now: We do not inherit the world from our parents, we merely borrow it from our children.
Posted by Descolada Survivor (Member # 9019) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: >>>>Why would the military join a rebellion, and a YOUTH rebellion at that?
Much of the army is made up of youths. What age are you thinking, like 13? I'm seeing more 16-24. That agegroup, if there were sufficient reason and a good reason, I wouldn't scoff at. *surly 19-year-old stare*
EXACTLY!!!!!!(sp)
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Alright, perhaps I said this wrong. The military trains people to be loyal. (I believe) The military makes sure you won't betray them or commit treason towards the entire nation. (I believe) I sincerely doubt the american military would join a rebellion. There are far too many people above youth ages to oppose this and fight back. Most of the army (including the youth) would fight back. They would have nothing to gain.
And, if the government is evil and bad, why wouldn't they train a military that is insanely loyal to them to the umpth degree?
*eagerly awaits well thought response*
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
That age group is poor and known to be undisciplined to a fault.
The older generations are richer, and have more influence, ie, control of the media.
There just no way that I can see your premise of a naturally occuring generational war as believable.
Posted by Reticulum (Member # 8776) on :
Thank You!
Posted by Advent 115 (Member # 8914) on :
Hows it going Reticulum?
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
You know, what? The cause of the downfall of the leader wouldn't be his malice etc., but his age.
So what I think more interesting than the role of the army is: What happens, when this generation of young rebels grows older? Will everybody retire at the age of 25? If they succeed in taking over the whole continent, what are the consequences for the next generations? What will the world look like if everybody reaches the peak of his career, if there is any, at the age of 17 or 20? Will people spend the following 50 years of their life with reminiscing the "good old times"? Will there ever be any stability?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
>>>>The cause of the downfall of the leader wouldn't be his malice etc., but his age.
And why do you say that?
Posted by Shawshank (Member # 8453) on :
Well for a little history.
The situation could be similar to America college culture during the late-60's/early 70's. What would have happened if Kent State happened at Berkeley?
I'm no expert here- so correct me here if I'm wrong (I'm young and haven't that time period in depth) but I think it is very possible that had the US Gov't had gone a little further some of the more radical students at more radical universities would have attempted to start a movement to bring down the government.
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
quote:The cause of the downfall of the leader wouldn't be his malice etc., but his age.
And why do you say that?
If, in the story, the young happen to RULE after the revolution, how long would it take until they, the folk, wouldn't accept him anymore? At least, they would not reelect him, because they would not want him to represent them.
How will the participants of the revolution cope with the fact that they are getting old? (Title: "A state named Hollywood"!Just kidding.)
I just think, this would be more interesting than the usual "good guy gets corrupted by power"- plot. I haven't thought of the details yet. Not my job. Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
Descolada, whatever you do, try not to create flat types instead of characters. It all depends on the way the story is told and mere types would possibly make it too predictable.
It should not be too easy for a reader to judge any of the characters. The protagonist is not at all supposed to be "all-good" at the beginning. The antagonist not "all-bad". They are only human.
Not the usual "evil", spineless politician, but one who really cares, who just can't cope with the circumstances and makes some really bad decissions. Think of Judas. (At the beginning, he was a "good guy", too.) And the protagonist.. rather a "Peter"- character. Not too altruistic, please.
It all depends on the circumstances. WHY do your characters do what they do? What is the actual trigger for the revolution? A disease? Whatever.
Good luck!!!
P.S.: That's only my opinion as a devoted reader. I don't have the talent to write good fiction. I must cope with that. Nevertheless, I know what I would like to read.
Your Humble Servant, Pinky
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: I think it is very possible that had the US Gov't had gone a little further some of the more radical students at more radical universities would have attempted to start a movement to bring down the government.
Um, I'm pretty sure this did happen. You can tell how succesfull it was.
Posted by miracleasd (Member # 9167) on :
quote:Originally posted by Descolada Survivor:
you can't kill yourself with a 50. cal, there's no pistol that can handle something that big.
Someone better tell this to smith & wesson (model 500) and IMI (Desert Eagle) so that they can stop production Posted by Irregardless (Member # 8529) on :
quote:Originally posted by Scott R: There just no way that I can see your premise of a naturally occuring generational war as believable.
I generally tend to agree -- but I could see a movement in another 10 or 20 years, with a rift forming over money -- resentment over younger workers being heavily taxed to fund bloated SS/Medicare/etc. entitlements for a huge, long-lived Baby Boom generation.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
What really has to be addressed is how the (relatively) poor and inexperienced youth can beat out the (relatively) rich and experienced establishment.
One way that could happen is a scenario like what you see in the short story "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", where technology and its use is accelerating at such a high rate only the youth can use it effectively, which places the power in their hands.
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
quote:One way that could happen is a scenario like what you see in the short story "Fast Times at Ridgemont High", where technology and its use is accelerating at such a high rate only the youth can use it effectively, which places the power in their hands.
Good idea! So there's still hope... Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:where technology and its use is accelerating at such a high rate only the youth can use it effectively
EXCEPT that the technology/age gap is already narrowing. Eventually, computers and technology will reach the same point as auto mechanics-- anyone will be able to pick it up. Maybe not technological design, but certainly effective usage/repair.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
It sounds like it could be a good story. You have a number of challenges, though:
1. Creating a plausibile scenarion in which the youth would feel compelled to rebel.
2. Creating a plausible sequence of events that makes it possible for the youth to gain power, given the might of their opposition.
3. You must create characters with a great deal of depth, so that the readers care about and empathize with the protagonists. Also, don't make the antagonists evil for evil's sake. There are too many stories out there where the bad guy wants "evil to prevail MUAHHAHAHAHA!" when, in reality, the antagonist should have legitimage reasons why THEY are fighting on the side of good.
4. Related to the above, we need to see how your main character progresses from one point of view to another, eventually BECOMING the antagonist that I just described.
And as all the others said, keep writing! I only ever wrote two stories, decided they both were pure drivel, then gave up. Maybe if I had kept with it...
But no, I like teaching band. :-) Have fun!
Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :
DS, how old are you and how much writing have you done previous to this?
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:EXCEPT that the technology/age gap is already narrowing. Eventually, computers and technology will reach the same point as auto mechanics-- anyone will be able to pick it up. Maybe not technological design, but certainly effective usage/repair.
I'm not sure that I would agree with this. Children are growing up in very different societies than their parents partially due to the impact of rapidly advancing technologies. Blogs, Myspace, instant messaging and other innovations are creating communities that, for the most part, consist of younger individuals. It's even spawning new languages that the older generation is largely unaware of. This generation gap isn't exactly a new or unique concept, but it does seem to be happening faster and at a larger scale than before. We can only assume that technology is going to continue to advance at ever increasing rates. I imagine that this is only going to make the technology/age gap increase.
Now, if what I think is true, then the basis for this story becomes a little more plausible, but it would have to be set sometime in the future to enable certain societal changes that the story would need for this type of scenario to actually work. For example, you could have a story where today's parents decide that drastic changes need to be made to ensure the safety of future generations, perhaps due to political or environmental concerns, causing a future generation of children to rebel againts the new norms of society.
Even though this idea has been done many times over, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to write it. You'll learn a lot from the experience.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote: I imagine that this is only going to make the technology/age gap increase.
I imagine things differently.
That is-- the children that are growing up today will grow up with the cultural impetus to get every new update. Today's kids are technologically savvy; they're learning the idea of perpetual, technical, self-education.
The idea of Service Packs and Updates, and etc, assures us of this.
Posted by camus (Member # 8052) on :
quote:I imagine things differently
This may be true for existing technology, but what about completely new technology? For example, I'll assume that you do not think like a twelve year old girl, thus, you're probably not likely to be interested in the same technologies that will be marketed to the youth of tomorrow. Not that you couldn't learn it, but there probably wouldn't be much of a motivation to, especially when there are so many other things to constantly learn about. The result is that your children are going to be living in a virtual world that is quite drastically different than yours. Even though we are starting to get used to the idea of perpetual self-education, there still seems to be some resistence to abandoning the old way of doing things for the new and different.
[ February 21, 2006, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: camus ]
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:but what about completely new technology?
Society has been absorbing "completely new technology" rather more frequently in modern history than just about any other time. I expect that trend to continue. Consequently, I expect that the social impetus to adapt to new technology quickly will increase, and thus minimize the technology gap.
Posted by xxsockeh (Member # 9186) on :
Descolada Survivor - I'd suggest going over to Writers Workshops (right below Forums at the top of the page) and get some ideas and feedback.
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