I'm doing a school report about the differences and similarities of Ender and Bean. I have a lot already but would like to have more. I'm looking for things in all of their books, and internal and external. I would appreciate the help of Enderverse connoisseurs such as yourselves. I've already thought of a lot, so I'll tell you whether I've thought of it or not. Do not fully explain as I need room for my own thought.
[ March 10, 2006, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Acorn ]
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
Why don't you tell us some of the things you've thought of and we'll tell you if we agree?
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
These are all pretty factual. How 'bout something more subjective? What was different about Bean that made him spare his enemy where Ender didn't?
edit: or you could just get rid of them all...
Posted by Acorn (Member # 9236) on :
They are both illegal births(conceptions more accurate), both die at strange ages(3000+ and under 20), both of their most loved ones used as tools for the IF(Carlotta/Valentine), both found new life with things they most relied upon after Battle School(Nikolai/Bugger's tactics), both make decisions from unconsious mind, and both had their IF agent come to love them.
Differences: Ender killed enemy and Bean spared his, Bean smarter but not best Commander, Ender refused to lose and Bean lost battles to learn from them, both did not want children at first(Ender didn't mean to create Val2 and Peter2).
If I think of more I will post and I had some that have slipped my mind for the moment.
Posted by Acorn (Member # 9236) on :
I will explain them in the paper. I was just trying to get the surface of each point out there for your further discussion.
Posted by Jeesh (Member # 9163) on :
Well, Bean had Anton's Key and married Petra. Ender was the first Speaker for the Dead and wrote three books.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Ender, is, literaly, more human; whereas Bean lacks certain human flaws. IMHO, this has always made Ender easier to identify with, but Bean perhaps a bit more interesting becouse he is so foreign.
Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :
Well said, Pelegius. I was thinking the same thought but wasn't sure how to express it.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
See, here's why this is asking people to do your homework: You were given an assignment, to compare and contrast two characters, I'm assuming. What you're supposed to do is look at the two characters and come up, own your own, with these similarities and differences. What you're doing is asking other people to come up with these things for you, which you'll then include in your paper, I'm assuming without attribution.
That's a big no no. If the assignment were, for example, to find out what other people thought of some characters, that would be one thing, but you're looking to pass other people's thoughts off as your own. So, you really should do your own homework.
Posted by Acorn (Member # 9236) on :
This is an independent assignment. It is known as a IRA, or Independent Reading Assignment. I was going to cite this as a resource. I read all 8 Enderverse books in 2 months. Many things may have been lost in the shuffle, and this was to remind me of things I may have forgotten. I would never take other people's ideas, as mine have worked for 8 years now. Some of these comments do not even pertain to the topic. This was simply for me to look at the topic from other points of view, as no minds work the same. I'm sorry if I come off as a slacker, but I have many things on my plate. I am on the JV baseball team, am in 6 honors classes(4 of which have major projects due this week).
Do not post unless you want your opinions heard.
Mr. Computer Consultant, don't judge people
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
Mr Squicky, perhaps my memory betrays me, but the posts I rember as being yours have all been attacks, often nubie baiting.
Posted by Acorn (Member # 9236) on :
Thank you Pelegius. Both or your posts have been very helpful. I had partially thought of your idea, but you further explained it for me.
[ March 11, 2006, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Acorn ]
Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
they are both portrayed as analysing things all the time, but I've got a feeling Ender concentrates more on what he feels, what other people feel, why things happen and what should happen. It's all in a way v. emotional. Bean, on the other hand, analyses things in a very 'scientific' way: he gathers the data and draws conclusions.
Also, I think it's important to note that (at least in Battle School) different things were expected of them (Ender knew he was supposed to be Earth's last hope), which might have influenced the way they acted.
(Acorn, there's nothing like a proper discussion to help you develop your own ideas, eh? Thumbs up!)
Posted by Jimbo the Clown (Member # 9251) on :
Hmm. Off the topic, you said that "both die at strange ages(3000+ and under 20)" Didn't Shadow of the Giant end with Bean traveling off into space in search to await a cure? I personally hold hope that Bean found the cure, and that there's a planet of mini-Beans somewhere. Sorry for the tangent. As for your question, here's what I notice: Bean is a horrible natural leader; he learned how to lead. Ender was born to be a leader. Bean has a horrible Pre-battleschool childhood and decent adult years. The reverse is true for Ender. Both of them are known by their nicknames. Both barely know their parents. Ender lived with the guilt for something he did unwittingly. Bean only felt compassion for the soldiers he knowingly sent to their deaths. Bean thought out his problems. Ender did things a bit more naturally. Bean relied on himself. Ender relied on Jane. Both of them relied on something that wasn't quite human.
That's all I have for now. I hope I was some help to you, Acorn. Best of luck on your paper.
Posted by Kristen (Member # 9200) on :
I'm jealous. I wish I had an opportunity to write about the Enderverse for school.
Posted by Acorn (Member # 9236) on :
Jimbo, I wrote that comparison before I had finished reading Giant. I also hold that hope that he will live. I have finished it now. Thank you for pointing that out and for your other great ideas.
The childhood and adulthood comparison I disagree with though. I think that Ender had a decent life altogether, especially his adult years. He loved Novinha and Jane, and grew to love Peter2 and Val2. Bean also did things more naturally, as he did not consciously think about his problems.
Posted by Jimbo the Clown (Member # 9251) on :
Acorn, I humbly disagree. Ender's life was not at all what he wanted, as evidenced by the discussions before Ender transistioned into Peter's body. Didn't someone say that Peter was a chance for Ender to finally live a life without the pain of the Xenocide hanging over him? Ender had good things happen to him, but he was too compassionate to really enjoy life when he still had all that guilt.
Posted by oolung (Member # 8995) on :
Funny thing, but when we put it like this (see Jimbo's comparison point 5) Ender begins to look like a terrible egocentric... which is completely, utterly untrue, of course.
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
"Ender was good at building teams, but he beat Bonzo hand to hand, one on one. And then Bean, a loner who had almost no friends after a year in school, he beats Achilles by assembling a team to be his defense and his witnesses." --Intro to ch. 21, ender's Shadow.
There's also a section that I can't find where Graff says that he has doubts about Bean's abilities to command because Bean came out of the toughest battle of his childhood as a failure (he didn't stop Achilles from killing Poke) unlike Ender, who came out victorious in his battle (with Stilson).
They also both have childhood nemeses (Peter and Achilles) but Ender doesn't see his again until Peter number 2, while Bean is forced to face Achilles during the rest of the series, starting while they are in Battle School.
Posted by Jimbo the Clown (Member # 9251) on :
quote: Funny thing, but when we put it like this (see Jimbo's comparison point 5) Ender begins to look like a terrible egocentric... which is completely, utterly untrue, of course.
Oops. I wasn't trying to give that impression.
Posted by Vazor (Member # 9267) on :
Be sure to work in the irony that while Bean, the street child from the vicious streets of Rotterdam spared the life of his childhood enemy, Ender, the good boy from a nice family in America kills both of his, and how both of the protagonists regret it later on.