This may sound stupid and trivial but it has been bothering me none the less so here we go.
Living in Canada our big patriotic thing is I Am Canadian - of cource it was started by the molsons brewing company but thats beside the point.
Recently I heard someone say they were proud to be American... not that i have problems with the U.S. but is not United States OF america. Highlight the OF as though you were this country in north america so what would be a proper term?
Im a Proud citizen of the united states
Proud To Be US?
suggestions are welcome!
Posted by Hank (Member # 8916) on :
Did you have any difficulty figuring out what country they were from? No? Well, then, I guess the current name works just fine.
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
You call ureself an American?
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
Your technically not from there, I could say I am a North American who lives in canada...
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
Same standard could, theoretically, apply to South America as well. You could also say I am an American who lives in Brazil, but would then assume you're an American who hails from one of the 50 states.
Here's what's intersting regarding the "United States of America" thing: Personally, when referring to my own country, I call it the US or the USA-- and most people I know do as well. When I talk to people online and they refer to it as "America," it's usually a dead givaway to me that they are not a citizen of the US.
--j_k
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
How's it any different than "the People's Republic of China"? Isn't "the United States of America" the same thing as saying, "The United States that comprise 'America'"
*edit* Or I guess it could mean "the United States within America". If you consider "America" to be the sum of the American continents, the U.S.A. would that portion of "America" which consists of 50 United States.
Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :
I try to avoid using America to mean the U.S., but when I have to I write "America" and use the Spanish "América" for the landmass. Down here, América is Latin América, or Nuestra América.
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
I believe (I might be wrong) that the USA is the only country that has the word "America" within its name, and as such it is referred to as "america" by those within and without its borders. We do not have a distinctive personal name such as "canada" or "Mexico".
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
Thats was more my thinking america is the continent. Its different in China because they dont claim to be The Peoples Republic Of Europe, only the govt of thier own land which is China. since the united states shares north america with Canada. . .
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
And Mexico, and technically every nation between Mexico and Columbia.
--j_k
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
If someone in canada says that they are american, where do you assume they are from?
I am not saying that is politically correct, I am merely stating that is the common term for a resident of the USA, snd as such for linguistic ease, it ought to be used.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I don't see the confusion or the problem. It's almost universally understood that American means from the United States. Europeans refer to us as "stupid Americans" all the time, and most likely they aren't referring to Mexicans and Canadians. Everyone understands there is a difference.
If anyone else in the Americas actually wants to be referred to as American, then we might have a problem, but no one has stepped up to claim that mantle for themselves, so the problem is really dormant. On this side of the ocean don't go by their continental name, they go by their national name. I'd imagine all over the world, people do the same, with the possible exception of Africa. I've found, from Africans I have met at school that most just simply say "Africa" when you ask where they are from, I think they assume you won't recognize the name of the actual country. But I don't assume that when they say "Africa" they are referring to the "Central African Republic" or "South Africa" the only two nations (I believe) that have Africa in their names.
If you want to talk about complicated naming, what's up with the Congos? Democratic Republic of Congo, which used to be Zaire, and the Republic of Congo, it's neighbor. Both have democratically elected governments, and I wonder how they feel about both being called Congolese when they are in few ways similar.
Or if you want a different take on this whole thing, there's the smug, arrogant American: We were here calling ourselves Americans when Canadians still called themselves FRENCHMAN and were trapping beavers in New France. It's not a big deal.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:If anyone else in the Americas actually wants to be referred to as American, then we might have a problem, but no one has stepped up to claim that mantle for themselves, so the problem is really dormant.
When I used to teach ESL I had a fair number of students from S. America who were a bit bent out of shape by our appropriation of the word. A couple every semester, generally.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
quote:ts different in China because they dont claim to be The Peoples Republic Of Europe
Good thing, too. Since, y'know, China is in Asia.
Also, Canada and the U.S. share North America with Mexico.
And, as an American studying in Canada, let my put in my $0.02 by saying that everyone knows exactly what I mean when I say I'm American.
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
Exactly what I am saying
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
quote:If anyone else in the Americas actually wants to be referred to as American, then we might have a problem, but no one has stepped up to claim that mantle for themselves, so the problem is really dormant.
When I used to teach ESL I had a fair number of students from S. America who were a bit bent out of shape by our appropriation of the word. A couple every semester, generally.
What should we call ourselves then? Staters?
We certainly can't call ourselves Uniters.
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
hehehe. I can see it now. We need a new national anthem, perhaps something along the lines of:
We're uniters, not dividers. We are lovers not fighters. War is Peace. doubleplusgood is US.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Am The War Chief: You call ureself an American?
Spanish speakers refer to Us citizens as "Estadunidenses," united-statesians
They also refer to south americans as Americans, with no distinction. The Canadians generally accept the US-centric viewpoint, however it is not the rule internationally. We ought to be more sensitive to the fact that America is a bigger place, the US is part of it.
Lyrhawn, your statement that no-one else wants to be called American, or that we are understood to be the only "americans" is wrong, South Americans do not appreciate this sentiment, although they are well aware of it. They refer to themselves as Americans.
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
quote:Europeans refer to us as "stupid Americans" all the time, and most likely they aren't referring to Mexicans and Canadians.
I wouldn't be so sure of that... At least not all of them. The Europeans who tend to use that phraseology in general often have quite a thing against Canada, too, and sometimes Mexico as well, and sometimes anywhere that isn't their own country.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
quote:Originally posted by James Tiberius Kirk: When I talk to people online and they refer to it as "America," it's usually a dead givaway to me that they are not a citizen of the US.
The only people I've ever heard referring to the USA as America were people who were citizens of the USA. No one else.
And I've heard a lot of Canadians get bent out of shape over Americans calling the US America as well.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Well, you know how Canadians are....
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
quote:And I've heard a lot of Canadians get bent out of shape over Americans calling the US America as well.
Calling the U.S. "America" is different than calling someone from the U.S. [i]an/[i] American, imho. Although I hear it all the time. Its use is widespread enough that, when referring to both the U.S. and Canada, people will use "North America", which ignores Mexico... gah.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I'm not sure how this involves OSC, except in the most roundabout way possible (i.e. he's an American).
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis:
quote:Originally posted by James Tiberius Kirk: When I talk to people online and they refer to it as "America," it's usually a dead givaway to me that they are not a citizen of the US.
The only people I've ever heard referring to the USA as America were people who were citizens of the USA. No one else.
And I've heard a lot of Canadians get bent out of shape over Americans calling the US America as well.
In my experience as a Canadian, we here in Canada usually say "the U.S." or "the States", but "America" is not uncommon, and when it is used in reference to the U.S. its meaning is understood and never questioned or refuted. When referring to the people, the term "American(s)" is used almost exclusively. After all, what else can we call you guys? "U.S. citizens" is combersome.
I have never met a Canadian who wanted to be called an American, or who thought that it was unfair or inaccurate that typically only people from the States claim that title. Furthermore, in my more limited global experience, the term "American" is universally understood to refer to U.S. citizens with as much specificity as the terms "Canadian" or "Mexican" refer to their respective countries. For broader application the term "North American" is used.
Posted by sweetbaboo (Member # 8845) on :
I second what neo-dragon said, from my experiences growing up in Alberta. Whenever we'd "go south" we'd get "American money" and go through the "American border" etc...
I've only ever heard people who were nit-picking argue about it.
Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
I'm pretty sure some people are trying to take offense at the seeming fact that referring to ourselves as America, and American seems to be devaluing the continents in favor of one particular country therein.
While I fully agree that it's technically misleading to a certain extent, and not necessarily fair to others within the Americas that would like to claim that monicur, I find fault with the concept.
I'm reasonably sure we were being referred to largely as American (internally and externally) long before we were any kind of world leader/superpower. I believe the term was adopted ( as has been alluded to ) because our full name is rather clumsy, and doesn't adapt well to an "ian" version.
If we just started going by American once we became a force in the world then yes it would be pretentious, but as it currently stands I think it just naturally evolved. About the only other thing I can think we are called is "Yanks" primarily by the British.
all that being said, I agree that it is somewhat pretentious, but I don't see any alternatives, or it changing.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:Originally posted by Princess Leah: doubleplusgood is US.
hah, thats good. i like it.
i think we should be called usaians. pronounced as a word, not spelled out. or usanites. yeah, i like that one better. whose for changing it to usanites?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by sweetbaboo: I second what neo-dragon said, from my experiences growing up in Alberta. Whenever we'd "go south" we'd get "American money" and go through the "American border" etc...
I've only ever heard people who were nit-picking argue about it.
That's another thing I forgot to mention. We always refer to "American currency".
Posted by ketchupqueen (Member # 6877) on :
...whereas I always call the money "U.S. Dollars", "U.S. quarters", etc. And it's the "U.S. border" to me...
Posted by Uprooted (Member # 8353) on :
quote: South Americans do not appreciate this sentiment, although they are well aware of it. They refer to themselves as Americans.
Huh. While I was certainly aware of the resentment over our use of the term "American," and realize that the term "norteamericano" is the one Spanish speakers use to refer to US citizens, I had not heard the term "American" used by South Americans to refer to themselves. I've always heard references to specific countries.
My problem w/ "North American" is that it doesn't distinguish us from Canada and let us have a national identity. There is just no good adjective to replace "American" -- as kq pointed out we can use U.S. as an adjective in some places, but it doesn't work as an indicator of nationality. Yuck to "United Statesian" or forced use of "US citizen" or "US national."
Posted by Lucky_Sean (Member # 6223) on :
It is interesting that other contries in America use the term American to refer to themselves when not part of the USA. In Canada we don't quite have the same feelings, we cling to the idea of being Canadian because our cultures are so intertwined that we forcfully explain the difference between us. When in actuallity we get the same television shows, the same climate (only a little colder), and generally most things are very similar. That being said though you can tell the difference going to a Canadian University and an American one, they are ran entirely different. It's mostly a lot of little things we make big to seperate us.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Uprooted:
My problem w/ "North American" is that it doesn't distinguish us from Canada and let us have a national identity.
An American worried about losing his national identity due to association with Canada?! Now that's quite the opposite of what I'm accustomed to. Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
quote:American's
Do you see the problem here? I've highlighted it to ease your understanding.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
Aside from Americans, Canadians and their selfidentified pride, I just wanted to comment on apostrophes, which have a great deal too much pride to be put in the wrong words and left out of the right ones. They feel terribly ill at ease when left in the wrong places, and I thought I'd share how you could help them feel more at home.
The happy apostrophe makes his home in possessive territory, as when identifying someone's possession, like an American's pride, or (for that matter) a Canadian's confusion. He also stands in the stead of dismissed letters when two words are contracted, as with don't, won't, can't, I'm and they've. He refuses to have anything to do with plurals however, and prefers to stay out of them entirely, as many Americans and probably quite a few Canadians could attest. The Mexicans probably have a strong opinion on it as well, but it's hard to tell since they're speaking Spanish. Occassionally he will sidle up to a plural, but only when the plural is also possessive, and even then, he only ventures to the edge of the word without actually delving right in. Many Americans' pride, whether they are US citizens or from some other country on an American continent is provincial to their country rather than to their continent, leading to many Canadians' confusion.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
When the US first came into existance, the problem didn't exist because it literally was the United States of America, as in the North American continent. You were a Marylander before you were a citizen of the United States, for example, and the correct phrase was "the United States are" rather than "the United States is." I assume that all changed right around the Civil War.
--j_k
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
We were here calling ourselves Americans when Canadians still called themselves FRENCHMAN and were trapping beavers in New France. It's not a big deal. _________________________________________________
Actually we were British North America or BNA - So was the USA before the unpleasantness ... that must have been awkward.
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
quote:Europeans refer to us as "stupid Americans" all the time, and most likely they aren't referring to Mexicans and Canadians.
I wouldn't be so sure of that... At least not all of them. The Europeans who tend to use that phraseology in general often have quite a thing against Canada, too, and sometimes Mexico as well, and sometimes anywhere that isn't their own country.
All the time? I haven't heard that term for years. (But I can only speak for the German part of Europe.) There was a time, when Michael Moore and George Dubbeljuh were the topic #1 in discussions, but that's over. Now, we care more about our stupid students and that annoying reform of our orthography.
But whether or not the Europeans who use that term have anything against Canada and Mexico and other countries, too: "stupid Americans" are always citizens of the U.S.
Little Joke: How do you call someone who knows three languages? - Trilingual. How do you call someone who knows two languages? - Bilingual. And how do you call someone who knows only one language? - American Posted by JemmyGrove (Member # 6707) on :
jeniwren, that was beautiful! Brilliant! My apostrophe's are virtually beaming with pride.
Edit: And maybe all you who are offended when we call ourselves Americans are actually projecting your own national exclusivity and elitism on us. Maybe we're just more inclusive than we get credit for; we're identifying ourselves not by our mere nationality, but with that pride which belongs to every enhabitant of the Americas. Maybe all those in Canada and Mexico and Brazil and Chile and Uruguay and Cuba and the Peoples Republic of French New Guinea and even the South should, instead of chiding us, stand with us in declaring to the world "I'm proud to be an American!"
(Just in case the tone isn't clear, please know it is meant to be read tongue-in-cheek. It's a joke friends -- I mean no offense here.)
[ March 23, 2006, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: JemmyGrove ]
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
lol i wasnt claiming that the US was stealing or grabbing a title from anyone just that they didnt put very much thought into a clever name for a country and once the decision was made they realised they were stuck with it.
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
SIDENOTE: We Dont Need No Stinking Punctuation!
Posted by Princess Leah (Member # 6026) on :
Watch out for the Grammer Federales, War Chief. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Am The War Chief: We were here calling ourselves Americans when Canadians still called themselves FRENCHMAN and were trapping beavers in New France. It's not a big deal. _________________________________________________
Actually we were British North America or BNA - So was the USA before the unpleasantness ... that must have been awkward.
Sure if you want to use the PC party line. Non-British history books and correspondance from the time however do not back that up.
Especially considering 200 years later, there are still people in Canada referring to themselves as French, and not British, and not Canadian.
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
Id suppose the Native Americans would not consider themselves any of these things, interesting sidenote, they dont call themselves Native Americans... But the BNA was the dominant name until canada became a dominion Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Used by whom? Brtain?
Posted by Julia (Member # 9244) on :
quote: ... they didnt put very much thought into a clever name for a country and once the decision was made they realised they were stuck with it.
Well we should have just called our country "Megalomania" from the beginning and been done with it.
Posted by I Am The War Chief (Member # 9266) on :
OIC you are talking about people from Quebec. Interesting thing on that the majority of thier province voted to remain a part of Canada, and while their may be some separatists still ative thier they have no voice. Similarily their are separatists in California and Hawai (not sure of spelling) but they have yet to turn violent.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
There are Alaskan seperatists as well.
Posted by Lucky_Sean (Member # 6223) on :
Hawaii would be excellent to seperate - I loved it there lol I would deffinetly be a Hawaiian citizen.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by I Am The War Chief: OIC you are talking about people from Quebec. Interesting thing on that the majority of thier province voted to remain a part of Canada, and while their may be some separatists still ative thier they have no voice. Similarily their are separatists in California and Hawai (not sure of spelling) but they have yet to turn violent.
The vote was something like %50.1 to %49.9. You're vastly understating the case. And they have a HUGE voting bloc in the Canadian parliament. I think your present knowledge of Canadian political issues is less than stunning.
Secondly, what does the present situation in Quebec have to do with what we were talking about anyway? Obviously Canada has changed in the last 230 years, which was the time frame we were originally discussing. And 230 years ago, Quebec more or less was the entire population of Canada, with the exception of PEI, Newfoundland, and some other east coast populations, but even those were primarily French traders.
Besides, New France only came under the control of Britain in 1763, and America started the Rev War in 1775. So you're telling me that in those eight years, the French inhabitants of New France (now a part of the British Empire) stopped calling themselves Frenchman and fully assimilated into the British system? Considering they still speak French two and a half centuries later, I really don't think so.
Posted by Sergeant (Member # 8749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pinky:
Little Joke: How do you call someone who knows three languages? - Trilingual. How do you call someone who knows two languages? - Bilingual. And how do you call someone who knows only one language? - American [/QB]
I know the aforegoing text was supposed to be a joke but there is a reasonable explaination why Americans (I even use American's because what else do you call us?) don't learn foreign languages. Aside from the fact that English is becoming the international language (which isn't a very good excuse) most American's have no use for a second language while growing up. For instance, I grew up in Wyoming. We did have a few Spanish speakers but not enough of a population and most of them spoke perfect English so learning Spanish was almost pointless (though lots of us did learn Spanish in high school).
For me to reach an area where a language other than English was predominate I would have to travel at least a thousand miles.
In comparison, European countries are quite small (Could probably fit a handful of the smaller ones in my state) and there exists great linguistic diversity. So it makes sense that Europeans learn foreign languages more often. It is almost a necessity.
Aside from this, I am a trilingual American (English, Russian, Korean) who just gets irritated by the stereo type anyway.
Sergeant
:edited: to remove extra apostrophe
[ March 25, 2006, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Sergeant ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sergeant: I know the aforegoing text was supposed to be a joke but there is a reasonable explaination why American's (I even use American's because what else do you call us?) . . .
Americans. See Jeniwren's post.
Posted by Sergeant (Member # 8749) on :
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