1. Wolfgang Peterson is directing this film – Peterson hasn’t made a decent film since Das Boot 25 years ago. Let’s look at his films and be honest: Outbreak, In the Line of Fire, The Perfect Storm, Troy and Air Force. His newest film, Poseidon, looks like another lazy attempt at a remake no one even cares about. Seriously, his films have no depth whatsoever which is greatly needed for a story like Ender’s Game. I would rather wait and see Ender’s Game put back on the shelf before watching this man ruin another great story, i.e. The Perfect Storm and Troy.
2. Orson Scott Card and company want to combine Ender’s Game and Ender’s Shadow into one movie - Which begs the question, WHY? As a devoted fan of Ender’s Game I felt that the Shadow series was average at best. For one thing, what does Bean’s storyline add to Ender’s Game? This movie is about Ender and only Ender and could be a great film that delves into the character’s mind and emotions. If you throw in the Ender’s Shadow storyline you are only taking away time that should be devoted to Ender’s Game, which leads on to REASON NUMBER 3.
3. Orson Scott Card is under the delusion that the film needs to be kept under 2 hours long – ATTENTION MR. CARD, audiences can sit through a 3 hour film if the story is good enough and the characters are interesting. Now I’m not saying the film has to be 3 hours long but why limit the time you have and unnecessarily strip away elements of the story that make it so rich to begin with? And just how exactly are you supposed to tell both the Ender’s Game and Ender’s Shadow stories in 2 hours? And again, what’s the point? Who honestly thinks that we will ever see the rest of the Shadow series turned into movies?
4. It’s got the stink of Hollywood all over it – I loved Das Boot, just in case you think I have something against Wolfgang Peterson. That being said, Peterson sold out to Hollywood along time ago. He is an example of how Hollywood can ruin a fine film maker. No doubt the studio will insist that this film will be PG-13 and will insist on having older teenagers playing the roles and of course they must be good looking to attract the young teenage girl audience. Of course the movie will be all about the ACTION because who really cares about what the kids are psychologically going through. No, audiences are dumb, we just want action and special effects. Who cares about the characters.
5. Much like reason 4, Ender’s Game will be one big budget mess – Because it’s Hollywood, the film will be shot and editing nice and cleanly with bright colors and glossy images. Hell with that, I want a raw and rough film. I don’t want some cartoon science fiction film (Stars Wars Prequels anyone?) I want a dirty independent film that doesn’t rely entirely on gee wiz special effects. When I think of the look and feel of what Ender’s Game should be, I think of the first two Alien films or Blade Runner. Hell, if only we could go back in time and get Ridley Scott or James Cameron before they started losing credibility.
6. Orson Scott Card has way too much influence over the script – Let’s face it. There’s a reason authors are rarely involved with or write screenplays based on their own book. Please Mr. Card, get a real screenwriter and stop pretending like you actually know how to write a decent screenplay. I read the first part of your original draft years ago and it was horrible! Another reason why you Mr. Card should stay away from the script is because you have horrible taste in movies. Am I to really believe that someone who ranks You’ve Got Mail, Deep Impact, Ghost, Big, Babe, My Best Friend’s Wedding and Ferris Bueller’s Day Off among the 50 Greatest Films of All time, over say the Godfather films, every Martin Scorsese or Steven Spielberg film, and basically every other movie on every critic’s and every movie experts list? This is sad.
7. If Wolfgang Peterson can ruin perhaps one of the greatest classics of all time, The Iliad, what do you think he will do to Ender’s Game? – Seriously Mr. Card, were you really serious when you said Troy left you “gasping, weeping. It was tragic in the classic sense of the word.” Yeah, it was definitely tragic all right and the only weeping I saw or heard at the theater were hundreds of girls crying at seeing Brad Pitt’s half naked body and hundreds of men crying at seeing Brad Pitt’s half naked body. Yeah I guess Peterson didn’t sell out when signed a whole cast of eye candy to fill his movie. And yeah I guess Brad Pitt did give his greatest performance ever (or maybe it was his six pack that gave the best performance) but then again I guess you never saw Fight Club a brilliantly written and brilliantly directed film which you probably hate, that is if you ever saw it.
8. Wolfgang Peterson wants to have a 3-D version of Ender’s Game – If that isn’t a sign of bad things to come, I don’t know what is. Have we forgotten Spy Kids? Yes Mr. Peterson, forget the brilliant story or all the great characters. Who cares about all that when we can put all our money and effort in seeing Ender in 3-D. Yeah, this will definitely be a serious movie when we have to watch it wearing plastic glasses. WATCH ENDER BATTLE ALIENS IN 3-D!!
9. Now is not the time to try and make a serious science fiction film – As a Science Fiction fan, I hate to admit this, but we haven’t seen a great Science Fiction film in a long time and please don’t even mention The Matrix, just don’t, you’ll look stupid if you try. Science Fiction films today are about who can have more fake, blue-screen, special effects shots than the other. Again, we haven’t had a great science fiction movie since probably the 80’s. But then again, who knows, maybe this will be a film that breaks the sad trend we have been seeing.
10. Ender’s Game should probably never be made into a film at all – The first time I read Ender’s Game, I was 12 years old. That was ten years ago. I’ve waited ten years to see Ender’s Game become a movie and I know others have waited even longer. We’ve debated and argued on several message boards, including this one, over who should direct and who should play Ender. Generations of child actors have come and gone that would have been perfect to play the role. Remember when most of us agreed Haley Joel Osment would be perfect for the role? How old is he now? 17? 18? Hey, maybe he could play Achilles! The point I’m trying to make is, maybe some books aren’t meant to become movies. Maybe all these years of failure are signs that some things aren’t meant to be. Maybe the reason Ender’s Game hasn’t become a movie is because no serious minded studio really cares.
That’s it, that’s my list. I probably could have thought of better reasons but I only wrote this because I was bored and needed an hour to kill. Maybe I’ve become pessimistic as I’ve grown older and not the naïve kid I used to be. Ten years ago, I dreamed and imagined what an Ender’s Game movie would look and sound like. I even imagined myself directing it and how I would do it. Ten years later though, I read people’s comments about Ender’s Game the movie and I just think to myself, What’s the point? Who cares?
Posted by MagusFire (Member # 6780) on :
Oh, I misread the topic title. I was expecting 'Reasons', not opinions. You really should fix that up.
And if nobody cares, and there's no point, stop wasting your own time on an OSC message board and go outside. It's a much better medium for which to spread your enlightening ideas. I'm sure OSC himself is sitting in his study right now going 'darn it, he's right!' and tossing out the screenplay.
Posted by The Magic Rat (Member # 9401) on :
Actually, these are reasons because most of them are backed up by facts. I also find it funny how you write about me wasting time on a message board when you yourself probably scan the board several times a day which can only explain how you responded to my post so fast. And yes my ideas are very enlightening, thanks for saying that. I thought of them while I was sitting on the toilet last night. And no I don't think Orson Scott Card will ever read this post or actually agree with me because that would mean he was actually thinking outside of his arrogant pompous mind. And I am still speaking as a fan of Ender's Game. I wrote this mainly for my own entertainment and because I was bored, just as I mentioned in my original post.
Again, I do hope that Ender's Game becomes a great movie I just believe that it will never happen.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
1. I liked Troy. I liked In the Line of Fire. So did OSC, on both counts. I think you'll be surprised to discover that your opinion of a movie does not determine its objective quality.
2. So you're thinking that OSC should not include a storyline that he spent the last seven years developing and pouring his heart into because you don't like it and for some reason think it's a good idea to insult it to his face?
3. OSC has no delusions about the limits of the medium he's working in. A movie CAN be longer than 2 hours, but every minute by which you exceed that limit makes your movie harder to fund and distribute. Luckily, as the original author, OSC has an absolute right to retell his story however he sees fit to match the requirements of a new medium. I don't see anyone complaining that he violated the Ender's Game short story by rewriting it and making it LONG enough to fit into a novel
4. OSC has put it specifically into his contract that Ender must be portrayed as a young child, and he has been more protective of this title than he has of any of his other works. Ender's Game probably would have been made ten years ago if he weren't going out of his way to shield it from the standard crap that happens to novel adaptations.
5. You're judging the style of a film of which not a single frame has been shot. Can I borrow your time machine?
6. Thank you for your well-reasoned and useful critique of a years-old snippet of screenplay. OSC has been working on this project off and on for years now ... "off and on" because many times, he has willingly allowed other writers to take a crack at it. So far, no one has found an ideal solution, which is one big reason why the movie has not gone into production. They're going to get it right, or they're not going to do it at all.
7. You clearly have a very narrow taste and limited experience with movies, which is entertaining, but which doesn't really qualify you to tell everyone else what they ought to do
8. Where did anyone say anything about 3D glasses?
9. The Matrix.
9. Okay, seriously, you haven't been watching enough movies. What about Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind? What about 28 Days Later? What about Firefly and Serenity? What about Battlestar Galactica? The problem is, it's very easy to assert your own superiority by claiming that nothing meets your high artistic standards, but I think you're missing out on a lot of great experiences for the sake of being able to throw self-important hissy-fits like the one above.
10. If it never becomes a movie, I won't cry. Luckily, even if it does become a movie, and you don't like it, the book will still be there. No one will burn it. Great books have been made into bad movies before, and they remained great books. So calm down and stop insulting people to their face on their own website. It's really rude.
quote:I probably could have thought of better reasons but I only wrote this because I was bored and needed an hour to kill.
When you have insecure feelings about something you've written, maybe you should take them seriously and not post it until you find something better to say.
Yes, you're right, you probably could have thought of much better reasons, and you certainly could have expressed yourself in a more polite and grown-up way. In the future, try to wait until you've found something to say that you can be proud of before you post it on a public forum.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I agree on a few of these things, but they are all speculation, they are opinions. I didn't like Troy either, but that is hardly conclusive evidence that Peterson can't do this film any better.
As for what OSC has a right to do and not do...
Smarten up or shut up, this isn't your idea or mine, and that statment lies well outside what is appropriate to share with the rest of us. Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Are you saying that The Matrix isn't a great SciFi movie? If so, I don't see how your opinion counts about anything else.
Also, Brad Pitt was an excellent choice for Troy. Have you read the story? It's about larger than life heroes. Those guys should have six packs. Maybe 12 packs. Jealous much?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Yeah, those 10 "reasons" are just opinions. If they were facts we'd all have no choice but to agree with them. In any case, I prefer to save criticisms for movies that I've actually seen... Okay, not always, but I certainly wait until the movie has been made! After all, I wouldn't want to condemn a film based solely on my own lack of imagination Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
personally I prefer is Sean Connery (if made to look Maori enough) could play Mazer, that it be done as an "anime" not as a crappy one like pokemon but realllllly good ones, I felt that Endless Waltz qualifies.
But for the 10 reasons I think I agree with puppy. I like Das Boot, never seen the other movies, the point of having Shadow and Ender's game into one movie because Ender's Game lacks a little perspective, and so does Enders Shadow... hopwever if read together makes it one big whole, seriously think deeper man, both books had lines, dialogue story etc that simply cant be done if a movie is made with only ONE book in mind you need elements of both, I'm not expected a perfect play by play movie and I suspect things will be changed but as long as its done creativily and is true to the books (and I mean this in terms of a story of child prodiges who save the world but are under alot of pressure, overal story etc).
Seriously, you havent been paying much attention to the boards, Mr Card has said that itll either be made good or it wont be made at all unitl i can be made good.
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
quote:Sean Connery (if made to look Maori enough)
That is an image I would love to look on in horror Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:What’s the point? Who cares?
My thoughts exactly!
Oh, wait, you weren't referring to your post?
WHat the heck motivates someone to trash a movie that hasn't been made yet?
I'm thinking fondly of the end of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back right now.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Personally I think that Sean Connery would be a bad choice. I think Morgan Freeman would be better. Either way, I don't think that it's crucial to the character that he be Maori. His ethnicity is mentioned in one line in the entire series (I think), and it's not like it's a defining aspect of his character like Bonzo's Spanish pride. Better to have him played by an excellent actor who's not Maori than a Maori actor who is just okay.
Posted by beware_of_moose (Member # 9402) on :
quote:that it be done as an "anime" not as a crappy one like pokemon but realllllly good ones, I felt that Endless Waltz qualifies.[/QB]
Endless Waltz? Uhm... while I liked the Gundam series and stuff, I don't think the style would work well for Ender's Game.
I do think an animated version could work, definitely, but I'd want it to be a slightly more gritty, hyper-realistic style of drawing. I love the technological look and feel of the cels in EW, but I also think the characters are still a little on the cartoon-y side for this kind of project.
As an Asian-American, I've nothing against the anime feel, but you have to think of your audience. A lot of potential fans who, for some bizarre reason or other, haven't read the book might be put off by big eyes and bad voice acting.
Posted by beware_of_moose (Member # 9402) on :
Sorry for the double-post, but to the Magic Rat:
I agree with some of what you said, but a lot of it was just angry opining. It would have been a lot more credible, and diplomatic, to list reasons that are based on something other than your own personal preference and assumptions (i.e., "if you like this movie, you hate this one").
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
well ya I simply took EW off the top of my head, the more gritty and realistic the better. it would solve the issue getting actors young enough.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Although those of us who are enlightened enough to appreciate anime as an art form can see how it could work, I think the too much of the general public wrongly perceives all anime to be either childish or perverted.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dagonee: [QUOTE] I'm thinking fondly of the end of Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back right now.
:singing: "Howwww many people wanna kick some ***
"I do, I do"
Posted by beware_of_moose (Member # 9402) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Although those of us who are enlightened enough to appreciate anime as an art form can see how it could work, I think the too much of the general public wrongly perceives all anime to be either childish or perverted.
And that Peach Fuzz crap in the Sunday comics of certain newspapers doesn't help, either. It is an art, but stands on very shaky criteria of fandom. Posted by GodSpoken (Member # 9358) on :
I will love to see it made, ESPECIALLY if OSC has control of it. I enjoy aspects of most movies (the exceptions being Alexander -retch- and that pitiful Stars Wars mistake ((4? cant remember)) where all the characters spoke in speed enhanced monotones and Yoda became Bonzai NinjaToad in between his crippled hobbling sessions).
Can't wait.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
It's not really crucial for Mazer to be Maori, but what about that guy who played Jango Fett in the Star Wars prequels?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"I wrote this mainly for my own entertainment..."
What about writing it entertained you, exactly?
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I liked troy
I usually do not like 9 out of 10 movie adaptions of books I like *CoughHarryPottercough* But, that is just me... Because I think books are superior to movies, but movies have that visual advantage. But, I can see some of the points, it's just not exactly polite though...
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
waaait did jango fet even talk? mazer is an awsome-ass kicking- hard ass - son of a b**** and that takes a certain level of vocal acting that I dont think Ive seen Jango display.
Posted by OSTY (Member # 1480) on :
To Quote The Magic Rat: Please Mr. Card, get a real screenwriter and stop pretending like you actually know how to write a decent screenplay.
It is highly obvious that you do not know much of OSC because if you did, you would know he began as a play writer and a very good one at that!
Insulting to insult is just a childish act for attention!
Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :
Magic Rat--The great thing about humans is that occassionaly, we're able to create something that hasn't ever been created before. If someone had shown you a plan for rubbing two sticks together to make this really neat thing that gives off heat, you would have said "Nobody's ever done that before. It can't possibly work. You might as well not even try."
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
Blayne, only George Clooney should play Mazer Rackhem... let the booing begin, I don't care.
Posted by jamesbond007 (Member # 8513) on :
The Magic Rat -- I have s solution for you:
Don't go see it.
The rest of us will tell you how it was.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Wow, I'm impressed! As one sub-pontifical life form to another, I salute you! It would take me at least five posts about someone's religion to get the board this pissed.
Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
I only agree with complaints 2 and 3. However, as to #3, I don't think OSC really gets to decide how long the film will be - that is usually between the director and producers, as far as I understand it. Also, I'm sure the final decision on that will be made much later, after extra scenes are filmed and may or may not need to be cut.
And as to #2, although I do think the Bean storyline is a less interesting element and do imagine it would distract from what the focus of Ender's Game should be, I don't think we really know exactly what OSC has in mind. It's possible he's thought up somehow to make the storylines compliment eachother in a way I wouldn't have thought of. He has claimed that doing this will make it easier to tell the story in a movie format, so we'll have to wait and see to what degree that is true.
I don't think either of these to think EG will be bad, though. I'm just worried it will only be an average sort of film, rather than the really great film that the book deserves - a film as good as... The Matrix! Posted by rollainm (Member # 8318) on :
The point in bringing in Bean's story is that Ender's emotional battles alone would potentially be way too boring on screen(for the majority of viewers). I believe OSC mentioned this some time ago.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: Wow, I'm impressed! As one sub-pontifical life form to another, I salute you! It would take me at least five posts about someone's religion to get the board this pissed.
Well if you were an easier target to ridicule, then you'd draw more fire.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
quote:Bonzai NinjaToad
I'm trying to picture a cross between a screaming miniature tree and Leonardo with warts; thus far, my imagination has failed me.
Posted by Jiminy (Member # 7917) on :
Magic Rat: You are a friggin idiot. You used the same "reason" like, eight times, and they didn't make a drop of sense between them. You basically don't want it to be made, and whined at us about it for a while.
Wolfgang Peterson will ruin it, OSC will ruin it, hollywood money star wars indy film waaaah. You should have a family member proofread this crap before you put it on the internet.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
wow, KoM that made my morning.
Posted by Lucky_Sean (Member # 6223) on :
1. I didn't like Troy, but who cares? People do get better and don't spew the same style for completly different stories. All directors have changed from film to film in many ways - There is potential in what he can do.
2. This IS film, not a book. We can't go back later and make Enders Shadow, if it's going to be done it HAS to be done now. And if you ask why do it at all? For a film adding a side dynamic of Bean is a good thing, lest the film get self convoluted about Ender, it is a telling of the story. Unless it was narrarated by Ender there is no reason to keep it about Ender alone.
3. They'll film about 4 hours and cut it down to 2:45
4.The effects are to glorrify the battleroom sequences, as opposed to being kids playing soccer in space. It probably won't take up more then 20 mins of the movie as a whole.
5. We're in a age of post-modernism, yes we're stepping away from it; however the best thing to do is to appeal to the large audience by having the psychological battle in a nice pretty picture. And if the director is worth his salt - making the violence ugly and real as opposed to stylized and seperated.
6. I would rather have him then some hack with no flair for writing. If worse comes to worse OSC isn't above having others edit his work or rewrite it to suit the medium - Posing as People is a good example of that.
7. This is where you seperate the style of the humanized version of Troy, and the OSC written script of Enders Game. Most of my problems with Troy came from the script itself, and the use of it - for his defence, the script in Troy was pathetic. You cannot tell the Illiad without the Gods properly being personified, or you just get a story about some guys who faught selfishly to live on within stories. OSC is writing Enders Game, and that alone gives any director something unique to work with. There are some good scenes in Troy despite it being lacking, most of those scenes are with smallers groups of people. In Enders Game the only time when there are large groups is in the battleroom, aside from that there is potential to get good person-audience relations within work he has previously done.
8. I heard nothing of this to do with 3D glasses, I assumed it was using digital technologie for Battleroom, and tactical battle sequences.
9. Now is not the time? First off this won't be done for YEARS. Second, when IS a better time? You don't understand enough about sociatal trends if you cannot see that this kind of film is something needed in the industry.
10. The same was said of Lord of the Rings, If all this film does is get more people to read it, then it is a success. However with countless support of the fans and family of OSC, he has it in his power to make it good. I do have high hopes for this, I don't believe I will be dissapointed. This is a way to allow all forms of people to hear of Enders Game, to experience it. Perhaps not as fully as they do with the novel, however it will open their minds to the novel and allow them to read it and the extended series. Yes this is good marketing, but I think it's also good for the audience as a whole. There are experiences and messages within these novels that make them enjoyable, as well as teaching tools. If it takes a film to open up the world as a whole to them, then I say god speed and good luck. It IS a big endeavor, but there are optimists out there that will outshout any pessimism that you can throw at us. I joined this forum 2 years ago because of the film, and to slowly see it evolving into a reality is a dream come true.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
I can't wait for the "Top Ten thing's wrong with the Ender's Game Movie" thread, followed by the "Top Ten reasons why its Awesome thread"
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Ten years later though, I read people’s comments about Ender’s Game the movie and I just think to myself, What’s the point? Who cares?
Ten seconds ago, I read Magic Rat's comments about Ender's Game the movie and I just thought to myself, What's the point? Who cares?
Posted by Luet13 (Member # 9274) on :
This is absurd. I had many of the same qualms about the LOTR movies. Who the heck was Peter Jackson? How could anyone possbily take a series of books loved by millions of people and please even a small percentage of them?
That said, I ended up truly enjoying the LOTR movies. No, they are not exactly like the books. How on earth could they be? They would have to be weeks long to incorporate all the material. However, as movies they are well done and bring enough of Tolkien to them to make them worthwhile.
Regarding an Ender's Game movie, do I think it will get every aspect that I love from the book(s) right? NO. Do I think that having the author write the screenplay is a good idea? Absolutely! Who, if not OSC, is qualified to write the best script possible? (You do know that he has playwriting history, right?) I will certainly see this movie when it comes out and love it as a movie. I have no expectations that it will BE the book, it's just not possible. But I am sure it will be a kick butt movie.
Also, who cares how long it is, as long as the story is given justice? It's entirely possible to give Ender's Game justice in under 3 hours.
P.S. Magic Rat: Who are you to judge which movies are good and which aren't? I also like You've Got Mail, yet one of my favorite movies is Citizen Kane. Having ecclectic taste is not a bad thing. It gives you more perspective. As an artist of any sort it is good to know and like different things. Who are these acclaimed movie critics that I have to listen to? Am I not intelligent enough to decide what I find entertaining or well made?
Posted by Pythian%Legume (Member # 9405) on :
Say what you will about the movie, but don't you knock the Shadow quartet, you no good hooligan!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I still had major problems with the LotR movies. Not just what they left out of the book, but what they changed and how they paced it. Peter Jackson is an over-rated director.
"Ender's Game: The Movie" should not be made unless it matches the "magic" of the book and how it has affected so many readers. I know Card won't push a script that doesn't do that.
My worries are the visuals and cinematography. I'll be furious if I see a battle school that looks like every other inside-of-the-space-station we've seen. The art direction for the battle room and the game room and the command school game--they all have to be perfect--they have to look absolutely realistic and the controls have to look natural and the designs for the team outfits have to look cool and zero G scenes can't have that "they're obviously just being suspended by wires" look and you can tell they're not actually floating...
But for now, let's just hope he can get a good script.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote: Now is not the time to try and make a serious science fiction film – As a Science Fiction fan, I hate to admit this, but we haven’t seen a great Science Fiction film in a long time and please don’t even mention The Matrix, just don’t, you’ll look stupid if you try.
Serenity, fool.
Posted by Numinor West (Member # 9375) on :
Rat: How is The Matrix not sci-fi?
Posted by Puppy (Member # 6721) on :
I love how this dude has never come back to defend his post Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :
Which means that (again) we're yelling at a brick wall waiting for a response. We've covered this already. How nice. Posted by BaoQingTian (Member # 8775) on :
*cough troll cough*
Posted by Joey (Member # 8742) on :
The matrix did suck, but Dark City was a great sci fi film.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
It has been 13 years for me that Ive wanted a movie. But what happens when you make a movie out of a book that so many hold so dear to thier hearts? People get let down. Not because the movie wasnt done well, but because we all picture in our heads the voices of each person, and the way they look...strictly from hair and eye color to the way they hold themselves. Right now I can honestly say that no child actors around today could succesfully pull of the complexities of Ender and Bean, yet alone half the toons they were associated with. Ive wanted a movie for a very long time, but at the same time it scares me to death that it will finally be made and not be worth a dime. This is not a childrens movie, and yet every child should see it. It does not need to be dumbed down for anyone, nor does it need to be cut down. Do it right, and there would be no need to combine any of the books, as the demand for future movies would be high. I have seen too many half par renditions of books and videogames in my life to want the only book that really means anything to me be destroyed and raped onscreen. The world of Ender is a sacred thing to many people, and if you market it to a world of people who havent read the book and change small things here and there you'll kill it. What needs to be done is to market it to those who HAVE read the book. As dumb as that sounds, it makes sense. There is not a person I have met yet, whether they like sci fi, political, fantasy, non fiction, or for that matter even like reading who I have gotten to read the book that has not liked it. If the movie can be pulled off to achieve this same "feeling" to it, and you can really get us inside Ender's mind and appeal to the current audience first, then I garuntee you it will not fail with the general public.
*sigh*...I just dont want to see such a fantastic novel get turned into a foul half par film...
Posted by Baron Samedi (Member # 9175) on :
quote:Originally posted by Puppy: 9. Okay, seriously, you haven't been watching enough movies. What about Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind? What about 28 Days Later? What about Firefly and Serenity? What about Battlestar Galactica?
Good calls. And don't forget 12 Monkeys, First Contact and Gattaca.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Child_of_Ender: Right now I can honestly say that no child actors around today could succesfully pull of the complexities of Ender and Bean, yet alone half the toons they were associated with.
I disagree. 10-11 year-olds can manage brilliant acting with the right script and director. Besides, it is unlikely the movie will feature the child actors of today anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Child_of_Ender: It does not need to be dumbed down for anyone, nor does it need to be cut down. Do it right, and there would be no need to combine any of the books, as the demand for future movies would be high. I have seen too many half par renditions of books and videogames in my life to want the only book that really means anything to me be destroyed and raped onscreen.
The point of a movie is that it is an entirely different medium. Ideas found in literature can't be directly translated into film, and vice versa with movie effects, sounds, facial expressions, and body language. Staying true to the book is a big mistake in making any movie, because it is impossible to tell the same story. What I think the focus of the EG movie should be is capturing the spirit and story of the book, and crafting a new way to tell it. The books will be destroyed, only to be rebuilt with different building blocks.
quote:Originally posted by Child_of_Ender: The world of Ender is a sacred thing to many people, and if you market it to a world of people who havent read the book and change small things here and there you'll kill it. What needs to be done is to market it to those who HAVE read the book. As dumb as that sounds, it makes sense.
That would be a mistake. Many people haven't read it yet, and they are the majority. You need to target newcomers to also suck in new readers.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
Did you see Silent Hill? It was taken almost DIRECTLY from videogame to movie, shot beautifully, aimed at the fans of the game who held it close, and still managed to come out number one at the box office and number one in america its opening day.
I understand it is an entirely different medium, but if you stray too much from the story, then how can you call it ender's game? Its like Doom, or Resident Evil then...strayed so much from the movie that noone knows what to do with it. Im not saying to take away any creative influence when transfering from one medium to another. Nothing can be a perfect direct translation. I just think that if you tear it apart too much, and make it a different story, then why even attempt at making the movie? Did anyone read Sphere, and then go see the movie, only to be left going, "Uhh...thats not even really the same story..."
I know as well that the new audience needs to be targeted...but I dont think that the story would have that much trouble as is reeling in new people. Like I said before, I have not yet in my life met a person who did not absolutely love the book after they finished it. I would think that if you did the movie correctly, that anyone who saw it, would want to, for the most part, read the book AND the series to see where it came from.
Oh, and i didnt say that 10-11 year olds were not brilliant in many cases...I just havent seen any currently that would qualify.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
quote: Seriously, you havent been paying much attention to the boards, Mr Card has said that itll either be made good or it wont be made at all unitl i can be made good.
Looks like i have nothing to worry about anyway
I trust OSC's decisions 100%, and if this is how he feels about it, then whatever he choses to do is what needs to be done to make it the best that it can be
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by Child_of_Ender: Did you see Silent Hill? It was taken almost DIRECTLY from videogame to movie, shot beautifully, aimed at the fans of the game who held it close, and still managed to come out number one at the box office and number one in america its opening day.
You name Silent Hill as a good example? That movie's been out for weeks and it's only made $44 million. It hasn't even covered the $50 million production cost. I'd say it qualifies as something of a bomb. Resident Evil actually did a lot better worldwide. Debuting at #1 isn't that impressive if there's nothing big to compete against.
In any case, I'll be okay with any changes that are made in the EG movie. After all, it's just a movie. Even if it's totally horrible I'll just shrug and read the book again. It's like David Lynch's adaptation of Dune. I find it comical for all the wrong reasons, but the book is great, so I don't care.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
I name Silent Hill as a good example mainly b/c it was the first videogame to movie production that didnt completely destroy the story. You are right on production costs though...but then again, they probably shouldnt have speant that much on a movie with somewhat of only a cult following. Touche, got me on that one...I had thought it had done much better. There just needs to be a way to stick to alot of the story, only changing whats needed to translate it to screen and still be sucessful. Unfortunatly, I guess we dont live in that world
Anyway, I agree with your dune comment, and I guess if the movies bad, it just means life goes on. Itd just be nice if for once it was done right, but then again, I have faith in Mr. Cards decisions.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Although I disagree with all of the ten reasons (except perhaps for #10 -- I haven't made up my mind yet), I have to admit that I will be surprised if I'm not dissapointed in the movie when it gets made.
[ May 18, 2006, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Nathan2006 (Member # 9387) on :
Well... I know I'm late, but I lost internet access.
In responce to reason number two... They absolutely need to be one movie. I think one of the things that Ender's Game has going for it is the big twist at the end... Why on earth would somebody watch Bean slowly unravel (Something it did with internal dialogue and thought processes, something that would not work in a movie) a twist which everybody knows about?
I mean, we have to think about hollywood... I think this was reason number four. It has two have some hollywood appeal for those who don't like sci-fi... Characterization is hard in movies. Most of OSC's books have a lot of characterizations reflected by the character's thinking.
Which brings me to number ten... Should this be made into a movie? I dunno... Will it be a stand alone movie, or is it a prelude to other Books? There's no knowing until I see it. Which I think is what all converstation on this topic boils down to.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Books aren't made into movies. The storyline of the book, some of the major dilemmas and events, and many of the characters can be put together into a shorter story that works for film.
If you've never adapted from one medium to the other, it's easy to fret about all those awful changes they make in adapting books to film. And indeed, many of the resulting films ARE awful. But some are brilliant. Most of the time, screenwriters try for the latter.
Ender's Game poses very difficult problems for the screenwriter. Most of the character motivation is internal, and can't be externalized while being true to both the character and the medium. That's why adding Ender's Shadow to the mix was so helpful - it gave us a foil, a rival, a "buddy" to make Ender's dilemmas accessible in a filmic, rather than novelistic, way.
As to the novelist having too much influence over the adaptation - doesn't that rather depend on the novelist? The real question is whether a playwright like me has any business writing novels <grin>. Apparently once you start in one medium, some people believe you can never learn to write well in another. And certainly a novelist who thinks that he can just sit down and write a screenplay is probably going to get disappointing results. However, I'm now about a dozen screenplays into learning this art, and since four of them are complete new drafts (based on new approaches) of Ender's Game, there ain't nobody on this earth who knows more about the problems and pitfalls - and strengths and cool solutions - involved in adapting Ender's Game to film.
But ... my script STILL may suck, in which case, somebody else will once again be brought in to write it. Warner Bros. ain't gonna put a hundred million bucks into filming Ender's Game based on a bad script, if they can help it.
Here's the real answer to the post that started this thread: Don't go see the movie. It's that simple. Don't watch it. Don't rent the video. Ignore it. You won't be offended or disappointed (though at this point I can't imagine how you could BE disappointed, having no expectations at all), and best of all, not going to the movie is absolutely free. And you get coolness points for being able to say to your friends, "I'm not going to go see Ender's Game. The author wrote the screenplay, he combined it with Ender's Shadow, and I don't like sci-fi films anyway." The better they like the film, the more you sneer at it, and you'll be so cool people won't even be able to touch you.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
A Hundred Million Dollars!?
How does Ender's Game cost that much? Its a bunch of kids flying around in 0-G? I prey that it does really really reaaaaally well.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
*applauds Mr. Card* very well stated...see? all the more reason to keep my faith in the writer's hands.
The movie has been spoken over for many years now...the thought that hadnt occured to me earlier, was that the reason that it hadnt been put to screen yet was a movie would not be made until it was done properly. I remember being a child and wanting to grow up simply to direct a movie out of it. And Mr. Card is right (after all...he should be) that most of the book is internal...half of the reason why time and time again we all identify with Ender so closely...we get to know him like a friend...or like he was, as the hive queen so aptly states, our otherself. So in attempts to translate this to film, one can only be left with the immense challange of, "How on earth do I express similar ideas and internal notions without this turning into face shot after face shot with voice overs and ultimatly, a boring movie?" When we read it, of course its not boring, as we translate such events into images and ideas, but on screen it will simply not make for a movie.
And after some thought, I honestly dont think i could be disapointed in this film, if indeed it gets to that point. Ultimatly because it came from the one story that has spanned my childhood into adulthood and never gotten old, but because the movie itself came from the brain and the ambitions of the very same man. Ive seen plenty of terrible movies. Ive seen fewer good ones. But I have also seen bad movies and liked them because to me, they meant something beyond what was laid out in film.
I iwsh you the best of luck, Mr. Card, in however this turns out.
Posted by Child_of_Ender (Member # 9421) on :
Ah, and in after thought, to emphesis on Mr. Card's statement above, I think more credit is due given the fact that again, if instead of trying to keep internal thoughts internal, and made them into outward conversation with others, part of Ender's entire personality would be lost. He was not social, and he was close to very few, and only, for the most part, when he had to be. He would cease to be Ender. So I can only begin to imagine the difficulty in trying to translate a character as diverse and complex as Andrew "Ender" Wiggen to a screen character, and thus as a person as if he were standing before us. I cannot read your mind just as you cannot read mine, and sci fi or not...does not really fit this book (jane and the hive queen do not count.)The only way I can concieve portraying him is a loner with few words and great facial expressions (though not entirely Ender at all...), more social (which again loses him), or introduce Jane early...having starting themes expressed through conversation with Valentine...but again, fails me as an appropriate idea.
So more "props" to the man who has the only power over the portrayal of Ender. No matter how the movie gets made, how can you argue with it? He created Ender and the Enderverse, so it is his to build and conquer. Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: it gave us a foil, a rival, a "buddy" to make Ender's dilemmas accessible in a filmic, rather than novelistic, way.
Apparently once you start in one medium, some people believe you can never learn to write well in another.
First, I love that you said "Filmic" instead of Cinematic
Second, people's confidence can often be placed falsely upon a person who is sucessful at one aspect of the creative process, and not the other. Take pianist Glenn Gould, who was a horrible conductor, or Stravinsky, who was also a terrible director.
With writing I agree, the opposite seems to be true, and I have no idea why that is. Douglas Adams spent the latter decade of his life fighting with producers and directors about his Hitchiker's guide film, and in the end it took nothing short of his death to get the movie on its feet. Though he is credited with the screenplay, he wrote not one word of it himself.
It seems that directors and producers feel the writers as a nuisance, or else the writers actually do make themselves into a nuisance because they are so in possesion of the material. I would hate to have another person interpret my work wrongly, and then sell it on the fact that it was MY idea. This is the ultimate character murder of the absolute artist, to have his work reinterpreted and called attributed to him.
Posted by Jimbo the Clown (Member # 9251) on :
Luet, How dare you say those things about LOTR! Peter Jackson left out Tom Bombadil! The movies were horrible! Seriously, I did like the LOTR movies. I DO think Bombadil should have remained in, but honestly, that's just because I can't get figure out the tune Tolkien had for his Tom's songs.
Posted by Surveyor 2 (Member # 347) on :
I am sad to say that I must agree with some of the reasons (or opinions, I do not care to argue) the Magic Rat has mentioned, especially with his evaluation of Wolfgang Peterson's films. (Troy was awful, an outrage for all the people who really love the Greek myths). When I read what OSC wrote about Troy, I had a very unpleasant feeling too. (Well, we do not need to have the same taste for movies, so why is it necessary to write so hateful responses to Meryl Streep or Pleasantville or American Beauty... on every occasion?) Do I need to say that I am even more sad to see the responses of many of you Hatrack people to The Magic Rat post? We all want the EG movie to be as good as possible. Let's face it, it has some risks too. I think The Magic Rat succeeded in pointing out some of them.
Posted by Cheezecake214 (Member # 9329) on :
When I go to see EG im not going to go in thinking its going to be exactly like the book. If you want it to be, then you wont like it. Like when I saw LOTR and Harry Potter for the first time I was really upset that they werent exactly like the books, but when I looked at them as something completely seperate from the books, I really enjoyed them.
I think the movie is going to be great, even if isnt what people who have read the books want it to be.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I'm tired of hearing the same shpiel about "you can't expect the movie to be the same as the book etc." The statement has been driven into the ground. I expect the movie to be as good as the book, not the same as the book.
Just thought I'd point that out.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
It's really apples and oranges to me.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
Believe it or not, I'm actually doing a mini-documentary on the transformations of literary works to motion pictures.
What I've discovered in my research is that opinions generally come from two camps: the stay-true-to-book and the make-a-good-movie. I don't know if it is really possible to satisfy both groups at the same time. After all, it is hard to shorten a novel into two hours and pocket change, and there are always those people who have a very firm idea in their heads of what the movie should be.
What do you think? If anyone would be willing to offer their opinions, or even consent to an email exchange/interview thing, that would be fantastic.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
I'm in the second camp, as long as the film is in the spirit of the original work and does not offend the sensibilities of the original audience. With Ender's Game I don't think there will be much chance of that happening.
I'm particularly confident in Mr. Card's ability to distill his stories into a new and condensed form, since he has had so much experience doing so with his writing (the Worthing stories are on my mind at the moment). Every Ender book seems to cast the events in previous books in a new light, and I think it would be refreshing if the film did the same.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Look at Gone With the Wind, a classic movie - and a classic book. They eliminated two of Scarlett's children. The compression was "horrible." Instead of a movie about a fascinating woman going through terrible trials, with one thread of the story being her romance with Rhett Butler, the movie became almost entirely about Scarlett and Rhett.
Yet that's exactly what the movie needed to be - it needed a single strong thread to pull the audience through a hodge-podge of historical events. The best they could do for the book readers was leave most of the interesting characters in, often in near-cameos, so you could see them and remember for yourself what they actually did in the book.
The astonishing thing about GWTW as a movie is how faithful it FEELS to the book while leaving out huge swathes of material.
So in Ender's Game, as we compress everything into one year so that the same actors can play the same kids from beginning to end, is anyone going to serious argue we should have spent six years filming it at intervals so we could watch these kids grow up?
Likewise, do we need battle after battle just because the book had them? It's rather like Harry Potter and Quidditch. The game was fun when we read it, because we were inside Harry's head, paying attention to whatever was important to him. But in the film, the game came perilously close to being BORING. It's just a different medium.
That's why in the EG movie there'll be almost NO explanation of the rules. You'll see game activity going on at important moments, but what we'll be concentrating on is what it means to Ender and to the adults watching and evaluating him. It will NOT be a course in battleroom strategy <grin>.
So you'll SEE the game, but you won't PLAY the game (that's for the videogame adaptations <grin>). As with GWTW, we will focus in on a clear story that can be dealt with in two hours or so, leaving much of the story to be the secret pleasure of those who also read the book.
There IS no other choice in adapting a full-length novel - unless the novel is so full of excess verbiage that the actual flow of scenes can be handled in two hours, or the novel was so short ("Rosemary's Baby," "Love Story") that it might as well have been a screenplay to begin with.
Look at William Goldman's adaptation of his own masterpiece, "The Princess Bride." I just got through reading the book aloud to friends, most of whom had seen the movie without ever reading the book. They were astonished at how much had been left out - yet also at how much had been left IN. (And I was astonished to be reminded that the annoying speech impediment of the bishop who marries Humperdinck and Buttercup was in the book, as well as the movie!)
As to the complaints about my complaints about Meryl Streep, Pleasantville, and American Beauty, I didn't just complain, I explained exactly why I reached the conclusions I reached. I don't repeat any but the Meryl Streep complaint except where it's directly relevant to what I'm discussing, and I treat the MS remarks as a running gag. Sorry if you don't find it funny. Sorry, too, that you thought that some enormous audience needed to have gods floating around in retelling the story of the Iliad - I still say it was a brilliant job of adaptation and a moving, powerful movie - at least for those who didn't expect it to be a faithful replication of Homer's history AND theology. (Personally, I think it would have been laughed off the screen if we'd seen a whole bunch of gods manipulating events for their petty purposes, the way Homer told it.)
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
By the way, the original post did not say that making Ender's Game would be difficult, it said that it would DEFINITELY SUCK. This sort of prediction is bound to get people's dander up, so no one should be surprised if it was greeted with some defensiveness. The movie MIGHT suck. It might even suck because of mistakes I make. That's always possible. But to declare that it WILL suck, and partly because I'm involved, is hardly designed to be a reasonable start to a civil discussion on my own website. The surprise is that this discussion HAS been so civilized. It speaks well of the tolerance that Hatrackeurs have for divergent opinions.
Posted by naledge (Member # 392) on :
quote: The movie MIGHT suck. It might even suck because of mistakes I make. That's always possible.
Card is sooooo arrogant. (laughing)
OK, back to work now... you've got a movie script to complete! After watching Chronicles of Riddick for the 8th time (shot so wonderful, yet so badly acted and written), I can assure you that there is at least one movie that Ender's Game, no matter what mistakes you could possibly make, will NEVER (And I mean EVER) suck worse than. There....that should let everyone sleep better at night. I know I do.
Darian aka -naledge
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
If the script is up to OSC's standards (and since he's writing it I have a hard time imagining that it wouldn't be), then they could film the movie with cellphones, using federal prisoners as the actors, and it'd still be better than twenty big budget sci-fi movies I can think of off the top of my head.
Posted by RedHddBoy (Member # 7561) on :
First off, I'll mention Magic Rat's original (and only) defense of the thread post that lists examples of his opinions don't count as facts. Just because you listed your opinions in nice 1-10 order doesn't make them facts. I see this all the time on the (especially cable) news networks. And as someone posted earlier, you can't argue with facts. Opinions, definately.
I find it frustrating, albeit refreshing, that as I am reading down these longer-ish threads someone points out a thought I've been trying to hold onto. Refreshing because it's usually OSC himself who steals my thunder. I like it that the big man himself has this whole thing under control.
Anyhoo...I agree with the point OSC made about using Enders's Shadow because having Bean as a stronger character so that Ender has someone to interact with Ender as a more central figure. To myself, I even thought of the on-screen relationship using Bean as Ender's foil.
As far as novel/movie adaptation...There are the two different styles. You can either take the actual story, the plot and simply use that as the road by which the story travels down. Or, you can simply take all the little things that happen in the novel and make them the landmarks along a different path. Where we can look and say, Hey! I remember that from the book. It's nice, but its almost irrelevant. They are learning alot from the big-budget comic book movies these days. You can't adapt it page for page. But you have to have enough source material so that hardcore fans don't mutiny. At the end of the day though, pretty words don't come off as pretty pictures. Tweaking must be done.
Posted by docmagik (Member # 1131) on :
Yeah, and that's exactly how I felt about the first two Harry Potter films. They felt really episodic. THIS happened and then THIS happened and then THIS happened and then THIS happened. The end.
It wasn't until the third one that I really started feeling like the whole movie was one coherent story.
I don't know that the movies would have made anyone care about Harry Potter as much as the books managed to.
That's what it sounds like OSC is trying to rise above here. By putting the emphasis more on the story and less on getting "THIS" in and "THIS" in, Card's free to do what he does well, which is create scene after scene that pull you further into the conflict and the dillemas and the story until by the end, you really care about these people in a way you can never care about a scene. Posted by Surveyor 2 (Member # 347) on :
Orson Scott Card Wrote: "I don't repeat any but the Meryl Streep complaint"
Without mentioning the original responses in Weekly columns, probably:
Did I say that I needed to have gods floating around in retelling of the Iliad? Am I blind? I do not see it there. For me, the Greek myths are about people (and gods). Peterson's Troy was about stupid fighting and Hollywood acting. I mean, if he wanted to make a movie just about THAT, I find it shameful to use just the names and some situations; it would be fair to invent them. If I want to have some fun with 21st century retelling of the Illiad, I will always prefer the originality of Dan Simons's "Ilion" to the Peterson's bore in his "Troy".
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Troy was apparently made for me, not for you. I found it brilliant - and marvelous in its evocation of another time and place. For Hollywood, it was extraordinary.
But if I wanted to do a serious film that depicted Greek life in various periods, I would go to the brilliant novels of Mary Renault and use THEM as my guideline.
What Troy succeeded in, for me, was being true to the FEEL of the epic. I believed that the deeds we saw on screen would have been remembered generation after generation, sung by poets.
You didn't say that you needed gods - you said the film wasn't faithful enough. I assumed that if faithfulness was the goal, the gods would stay in. Apparently faithfulness is NOT the goal - they just should have checked with you about what to leave in. Did I miss Cassandra and other major figures? Of course; I believe I even said so in my review.
But Troy being "stupid fighting and Hollywood acting." I'm really puzzled. The Iliad is full of noble heroic speeches that no real person would ever have uttered - it was the literary tradition at the time. How, exactly, should those speeches be delivered, except by Hollywood actors? Or did you simply want a cast of Brits? Or ... here's a thought ... Greeks speaking Greek! (The Aramaic worked in Passion of the Christ, right?)
And as I read the Iliad, most of it IS about fighting - either showing the fights, or talking about the fights afterward, or explaining what fights they want to have, or who's not going to fight any more, etc.
I'm still waiting to know what's REALLY wrong with Troy (since I think NOTHING is) - "stupid fighting and Hollywood acting" describes, oh, most of the top money-making movies of the past fifty years.
So I referred to Pleasantville and American Beauty twice. Sue me. Count the columns. Is twice out of nearly five years of weekly columns THAT often? Are people overburdened by that? They were socially vile and dishonest movies; I now regard them as icons of anti-traditional-culture propaganda by the extreme Left. So I'll refer to them that way. For what it's worth, most ordinary middle-class suburbanites who don't think of themselves as "movie experts" know exactly what I mean when I refer to them that way in conversation. When you're on the receiving end of Hollywood's smug, self-righteous social attacks, you remember and resent the films that do it.
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
When I watched Troy I wasn't expecting a historically or mythically accurate reproduction of the Iliad, so I wasn't disappointed.
That said, one thing that I felt detracted from it was the way the characters repeatedly emphasised how important glory and legendary-status was to them. I thought it was repetitive or at least overemphasised, however important these things were to the cultures of Archaic Greece. It's a minor point, but it did reminded me of Star Trek scenes in which Klingons repeat their now long-cliched views on 'honour'.
Another thing that came to mind while watching the film was that one of the qualities that make the ancient Greeks so attractive to storytellers is their 'earthiness'. It's something that characters in a lot of American literature and film also share - take the cowboys in old Westerns, say. So when Hollywood actors try to portray this aspect of the Greeks on camera, it might come across as the encroachment of stereotypically American attitudes onto a Greek story. I think it added to the film makers' challenge of not appearing superficial. Once I thought about it, I was able to appreciate the film a bit more.
---
If anyone is interested in good novels set in ancient Greece by the way, I recommend Valerio Massimo Manfredi's books. He is probably best known for his trilogy on Alexander.
[ June 03, 2006, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Euripides ]
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Wow! With so much OSC in this thread it is almost intimidating. I first read Ender's Game as a short story as a kid, what I remember from that experience was the twist at the end.
What I remember most from the Book was the courage OSC had to portray Child Ender's ruthlessness in killing the boy in the fight at the beginning. It is the realistic fact that in a time a crisis the government is looking for qualities that in gentler times they would consider criminal tendencies.
I think the movie is going to capture the first in what for the viewer will likely be a fake secret, everyone will know it is real long before it is done. The child killing though, it will not make the cut, and the story will suffer for it.
As for compressing the training into a single year, well they could show the young Ender being taken away and then do the 6 yrs later... thing as long as we are not expected to swallow the premise that all the needed training was done in a single year.
I think the movie can be very good, assuming Hollywood does not try to make it mock itself as they did Starship Troopers. I think it has every chance of being a classic, but I do not know if they can keep that element of 'looking for atavism for its survival value to the species' message that made the book so good.
'Ender will Save us' because he is brilliant, has fast reflexes and was born a ruthless calculating SOB. I fear he will come across as a Brilliant, Idealistic, Video Game Playing Dupe of the Government.
The clear message must be that the human race must do what it needs to in the face of extinction, not that we must watch the government to prevent them from exploiting the little darlings that children have never been.
BC
[ June 02, 2006, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Bean Counter ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I also wonder how they will handle Stilson and Bonso's deaths. If the audience only learns about them as Ender did at the end, it might be okay. Or... maybe they will be successful in getting the viewer to wish they could kill the bullies.
Interweaving the story of Bean and Achilles might also clarify things. Or would you have them remove Poke's death as well?
One way would be for the fight to commence, then Ender's house is shown (it would have to have been introduced previously) with the cop car pulling up. You might think for a second that Ender was hurt or killed, except for the movie having just started.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: 'Ender will Save us' because he is brilliant, has fast reflexes and was born a ruthless calculating SOB. I fear he will come across as a Brilliant, Idealistic, Video Game Playing Dupe of the Government.
Am I the only one who thought: "Matrix" Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
That's an interesting question - have fist-fighting and killing among small children ever been on film before (outside of horror)? It would certainly disturb a few people, even if it was filmed in a milder way, and drive the viewer rating up.
Perhaps it's better to see the beginning of the fight and find out later that Ender actually killed his opponent, or find out about the whole thing when the IF comes to the Wiggin house to take Ender away?
Posted by RedHddBoy (Member # 7561) on :
quote:Originally posted by CRash:
quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: 'Ender will Save us' because he is brilliant, has fast reflexes and was born a ruthless calculating SOB. I fear he will come across as a Brilliant, Idealistic, Video Game Playing Dupe of the Government.
Am I the only one who thought: "Matrix"
Does anyone else picture Ender facing off with Stilson, the techno music cues. Ender puts on some badass shades and the camera pulls waaay out. NEOEnder commences asskicking.
Posted by Bean Counter (Member # 6001) on :
Too make the cost of attacking me so great that nobody ever attacks me again...
Ender
It occurs to me that Ender was not suffering brutality at Peter's hand, he was suffering frustration. Peter was big enough and smart enough that Ender could not kill him to make him stop. Peter was not addicted to inflicting pain, he was addicted to courting danger. He knew that Ender would kill him if he could and so he pushed him without knowing why, courting his own destruction for the rush of risking death.
BC
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: I'm still waiting to know what's REALLY wrong with Troy (since I think NOTHING is) - "stupid fighting and Hollywood acting" describes, oh, most of the top money-making movies of the past fifty years.
It clearly was nothing at all to do with trying to present any kind of accurate retelling of a classic story. That is, as you say completely pointless and boring.
Here's the thing I think bothered me: The movie said nothing to me. It was well acted, and well shot (though the music was terribly IMO), it just sort of floated around on an idie fixe about honor and history. That's fine, but the movie spent so much time looking classic and timeless, providing so many picturesque moments, that it never got around to telling me anything I didn't feel I knew better than the people who told the story to me.
In the end, Troy did nothing interesting beyond holding down the fort for the classic movie tradition. It wasn't BAD on any of the counts you defend, but it is hardly a step in any particularly inspiring creative direction. It's just another example (to me) of play-it-safenomics in Hollywood. As long as it makes money, who cares?
Posted by Jiminy (Member # 7917) on :
Sounds like you might be taking issue with Homer, rather than Mr. Peterson. I've never read the book or seen the movie, but I've enough to know(?) that the story is basically a tale of larger-than-life-ness. If there is any deep meaning to be found, it maybe isn't so much inherent in the story as found extraneously in Homer's telling of it.
This is just baseless speculation for the sake of argument, but I have this thing where I'm like, right all the time, so it was still probably worth saying.
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
"...of course they must be good looking to attract the young teenage girl audience."
And this is supposed to spoil the movie? Think again: as far as the characters in the books are described, most of them they are either good-looking or at least not decribed as not good-looking. Have a little faith. They won't cast actors only because of their looks. Beauty does not except talent, and action does not except quality, does it?
A propos action and special effects. I like The Matrix, only I wished I had never seen the second and third part of the Trilogy. I could have lived with the open end of the first one.
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
quote:He knew that Ender would kill him if he could and so he pushed him without knowing why, courting his own destruction for the rush of risking death.
Peter tended to underestimate other people (his parents, Achilles...). I don't believe that he believed (before Stillson) that Ender would have the guts to kill another human being. Especially in contrast to his own personality, Ender was rather a wimp in Peter's eyes, wasn't he?
Posted by Euripides (Member # 9315) on :
I also don't think Peter saw Ender as capable of murder. I think that to Peter Ender was too weak to fully protect himself and maybe even a bit malleable, as he saw Valentine. Mostly though, as Peter admits later, his attitude towards Ender must have been borne out of jealousy.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 233) on :
Since people are talking about Troy, I have to pitch in and say that the fighting really was intensely stupid. No, it isn't the kind of thing that matters to 99% of people who go to see movies (I mean, people go to see John Woo and...um, whatshisnamedammmitwhoever films). But if you know anything about melee combat, the action in Troy was just utterly stupid.
The other thing is that the bias against war and warriors is so hilarious as to be funny. I mean, look at the portrayal of Agamemnon, and compare that with the Agamemnon of the Illiad. Look at the portrayal of Hector compared to Paris. Look at Brad Pitt playing a peace loving Achilles. If you've spent time studying the behavior of fighting humans, you can't believe the actions of these characters for a moment, which is fine because the depiction of their fighting skills is merely hilarious.
And you know what? That bit where they show a pile of naked women (Achilles' conquest of the previous night) at the beginning of the film didn't earn points with my sensitive side. Particularly when I couldn't help but notice that they had digitally carved off the nipples of one of the women who happened to be 'cheated' the wrong way. It's not like I'm eager to see some stranger's nipples exposed, but doesn't removing them rather than simply reshooting the scene seem a little excessive to anyone else?
For me, that moment pretty much summed up the whole film. Yeah, pile of nude women...but to keep it "tasteful" they decided to desecrate at least one unfortunate (I didn't bother to check and see if anyone else got the same treatment) in an obvious and disgusting manner. Yuck.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
The people on Digg seem to mostly agree with what OSC had to say:
quote:I think the inclusion makes sense, both Ender and Bean had alot of internal motivation, something that is quite difficult for a movie to produce. If you have both characters as primary characters you can bring the motivations external, them communicating and the audience understanding it.
Just out of curiosity, is Discolada a Jatraquero?
Personally, I thought Troy was a horrid movie. On the other hand, A Perfect Storm was a great movie and it has a lot of similarities with Ender's Game (a crew learning to work together, facing impossible odds, a lot of characters with interesting back stories, etc).
Posted by JoeNobody (Member # 9476) on :
Thank you for your opinion. I agree with you on some levels, but just to provide some input here are my thoughts:
1. You are right. Wolfgang Peterson is yet to have his big movie and may remain that way for the rest of his life. But, maybe the big movie he needs is Ender's Game, maybe this movie will bring him fame. For now, it's only maybe.
2. This is OSC's biggest flaw, i think. Ender's Game and Shadow are too the same, yet too different to be the same movie. Card will have a tough time trying to get all the events or information into two or three hours, while keeping his audience entertained, showing all demensions of both books, and keeping the same storyline. Yet, the fact remains that Card is attempting to pull it off. My hat goes off to OSC.
3. You again are right. The movie has to be at least two hours long. Who says it can't be three and a half hours long.
4. Your opinion that this movie has too much hollywood is true. OSC needs to focus a little less on the action and more on the whole thinking part, to pull it off. Also, when you said they would need cute teenage actors to attract the teenage girl audience you are right, then again most of america thinks that way and Card would be right to pick good looking actors. Who wants to see a butt ugly Ender or Bean, when they are both described in the book as likable characters.
5. This movie will cost a big chunk of change, but then again, this is supposed to be a hollywood blockbuster isn't it? I think that the crew will be able to pull the movie off with a lot of special effects and good editing. This movie is intended to make a lot of money with the glitz and glamour of hollywood.
6. I agree, if Card wants this done right, he has to take it into his own hands. After all, being the author, you'd think he would have the best idea of how to portray it.
7. Wolfgang Peterson didn't do the best job in Troy, but he didn't exactly kill it either. I think that Peterson could pull it off, but it will take his best directing performance yet.
8. I agree. A 3D version would completely kill a movie that otherwise has a fantastic chance of becoming the best Sci-Fi movie ever. A 3D form would completely demolish Peterson's, Card's, and basically everyone who is involved with the making of this film's, reputation.
9. Here i must disagree. I think now could actually be the perfect time for the next great sci-fi film, there hasn't been a good one in a while. Also, The Matrix is one of the greatest movies, overall, of all time!
10. Finally, that is said. If Card is going to take anymore time on this movie, we'll all be on our deathbed's. Card needs to make this movie now, well, and with almost no flaws at all to live up to the expectations of his fans, including me.
CARD NEEDS TO MAKE A DECISION ON THIS MOVIE, that decision is to go full speed ahead and to not screw up this great story I have come to love. Do this movie right, or don't do it at all. Card, on behalf of all your remaining fans, please do not kill possibly the greatest science fiction story of all time. Do it right, or leave it be.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
Maybe animation for "Ender's Game" isn't a bad idea. Life action can be so clunky when it comes to highly imaginative fiction...
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
If you watched the Oscars the year Das Boot was competing, you wouldn't be dissing Wolfgang Peterson. He was dominant in a way that only Life is Beautiful and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon have been in the Foreign Film category since then. I watched the 9 hour director's cut and it was fantastic. (Das Boot was also a 14 hour miniseries on German TV, is how that came about - I'm also not sure if it was 9 hours. It didn't seem overly long). I also really liked The Perfect Storm. However, I had some issues with Air Force One. They may have been due to some personal problems I was having at the time, but I'm not curious enough to review it.
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
woah Das Boot is 9 hours long!? nevah noticed.
Posted by the_Somalian (Member # 6688) on :
what!?!?
I thought Das Boot was 3 or so hours long.
Guess I'll have to track down this longer version now.
Thanks pooka!
Posted by Pinky (Member # 9161) on :
There are quite some versions of Das Boot with different lenghts. The film that most people have seen has 149min, the Director's Cut 210min, and the TV-mini series has 330min. A few years ago, I bought kind of a hybrid for my father - the series on video, but changed into a movie with 282min lenght. But I don't know if one of the two latter is available in English. Maybe with captions.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:If you watched the Oscars the year Das Boot was competing, you wouldn't be dissing Wolfgang Peterson.
I think most people, if pressed, probably have one great movie in them. Posted by JoeNobody (Member # 9476) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the_Somalian: "Maybe animation for "Ender's Game" isn't a bad idea."
You are crazy.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by JoeNobody: The movie has to be at least two hours long. Who says it can't be three and a half hours long.
Probably the younger kids that the movie will be marketed to. It's a tricky audience that EG will have to reach out to, and it will likely put off many if it becomes LotR-length. Rings worked because it was so popular to begin with, and EG is not up to that level. Besides, a longer movie means less showings and less money in the long haul.
quote: OSC needs to focus a little less on the action and more on the whole thinking part, to pull it off. [/QB]
I'm sure everyone loves an audio/video medium where all people do is think and focus on philosophy. (Sorry for that jab.) The thing is, "thinking" movies are usually boring to at least half of the general audience, merely because they are not suited to the medium. Plus, I think you can't really get that in-depth intelligent discussion in a two-to-three hour movie. You can in a book, but not on the big screen. I don't think there should be no "thinking" elements to the movie, just that the action should have the majority.
quote: Also, when you said they would need cute teenage actors to attract the teenage girl audience you are right...
Coming from a teenage girl, let me say that in general we are not mindless hormone-filled dolts, and can appreciate a good movie without attractive teenage boys, thank you very much. Who would these teenagers be, by the way? I've heard that the cast is supposed to be around 9-12 years old, meaning many won't have reached the puberty stage. I say go for hot Battle School teachers, and attract the middle-aged woman audience...
quote: I agree. A 3D version would completely kill a movie that otherwise has a fantastic chance of becoming the best Sci-Fi movie ever. A 3D form would completely demolish Peterson's, Card's, and basically everyone who is involved with the making of this film's, reputation.
Amen to that!
quote: If Card is going to take anymore time on this movie, we'll all be on our deathbed's. Card needs to make this movie now, well, and with almost no flaws at all to live up to the expectations of his fans, including me.
What, does a major nuclear exchange start tomorrow? I have plenty of time to wait around as long as the movie gets "done right". I think the mistake would be to go "full speed ahead", as you suggest. Slow and steady wins the race--tortoises rule! Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bean Counter: I think it has every chance of being a classic, but I do not know if they can keep that element of 'looking for atavism for its survival value to the species' message that made the book so good.
. . .
The clear message must be that the human race must do what it needs to in the face of extinction, not that we must watch the government to prevent them from exploiting the little darlings that children have never been.
BC
You saw what you wanted to see. I don't like movies with "clear messages." The brilliance of Ender's Game is that it didn't give you any easy answers. Both of the elements you referred to were certainly there, but there was no clear moral lesson. Frankly, I think the only worthwhile way to focus on moral issues is when you don't know the answer. Anything else isn't a story; it's a parable.
Posted by Von (Member # 1146) on :
All I know is that when Brad Pitt spryly (sp?) took down the giant dude at the beginning, I got the shivers. The pic far exceeded your average hollywood fare. I easily put it in Ridley Scott epic category.
Posted by Sartorius (Member # 7696) on :
Rose Byrne as Brisies was breathtaking. When Achilles died it hurt me because it hurt her.
Posted by valantin (Member # 9185) on :
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Personally I loved Troy. Certainly there were things that could have been done better about it, but it was a great film.
Especially I liked what they did with Hector and Achilles. Neither of them were really bad guys, or good guys. Achilles wanted out, not necessarily because he was a peace loving hippie, he wasn't, he had a glory issue. He needed to be immortalized in song for the rest of time, and he got what he wanted at the price of his life. At the same time, Hector is tragic. He loves his brother, loves his family, and has to fight for the sake of Troy, but he really doesn't want to either.
Neither of them are bad guys. And watching them fight is torture, because you know one of them is going to die, but you want them both to live. Personally I liked Hector better, and I thought Eric Bana did some amazing acting in that movie. Brad Pitt did what he had to do, but his acting was mostly composed of appearing emotionless, whereas Hector was rather fiery most of the time. And if you look at the writings of the time, warfare and battle was an obsession. Especially heroic warfare, one on one single combat, back during the time that the Trojan War depicts.
I haven't read the articles where OSC talks about Pleasantville, so I don't know what his problems are with that movie. I rather liked it. I think a lot of the dialogue is downright cheesy, and the whole thing is so flushed with warm fuzzies you could make sweaters for an army, but all in all the message is good, and Jeff Daniels is great. And the medium for portraying the message was fairly original (at least from what I've seen), so I liked it.
I have no illusions about EG the movie being the best thing ever made just because OSC is at the helm. I think he's a fantastic writer, and I think that if anyone is going to capture the important elements of the book and find a way to translate them into something visual, it'll be him. But not everything was meant to automatically be turned into a film, well, I don't actually think any of the greatest books were ever meant to be turned into film anyway. But some don't make the transition as easily. So much of EG, as OSC said, is an internalization, the thoughts and fears of children and adults, that it might not necessarily play out so well on the big screen.
In the end though, I'll be first in line to see it when it comes out, because I love Ender, and I think it's a great story. I can't imagine Card would let it be made, without thinking that it is worthy of the book he originally wrote, and I trust him enough to assume it's by far worth going to see. I think Card is the kind of writer who loves his own work, and his own characters enough to demand justice be done to them when transferring from book to movie. And it's that love of his own work that will get me to the theater as much as the content itself.
Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
I was dissapointed by Troy because at the end, I didn't care one way or the other what happens to any of the characters. I felt no sympathy for any of them, and thought they were all stupid and motivated by either greed or lust or glory-seeking. I would have liked it if all of them had died- but that isn't the story.
I can certainly see what people respond well to in the movie, but I can most definetly see ways that it could have been made much better. On the whole, the characters are all just so unlikeable that the movie would have sunk if everything else had gone right. Not everything else was done exactly right, but it is one of those movies where there is nothing that was done shoddily... it just feels generally uninspired, and there is nothing to catch your eye or imagination. The movie basically feels tired and boring from the first scene.
Posted by Lnmbr3 (Member # 9519) on :
Magic Rat... r u mentally insane? (just a friendly question)
[ June 20, 2006, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Lnmbr3 ]
Posted by Lnmbr3 (Member # 9519) on :
P.S. really random, but have any of you heard "Under My Skin" by Avril Lavigne? really reminds me of EG.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I feel bad when people use "retarded" as a slur. But then, I accidentally said it (about myself) in front of my brother, whose daughter has Down's syndrome and then I felt really... narcissistic.
Posted by signine (Member # 7671) on :
If you've noticed, David Benioff (same guy behind Troy) is working on the screenplay as well. Normally I would throw my hands in the air and shout obscenities, but I noticed that he worked on The Kite Runner. If that movie is not amazing, you can personally kick me in the face.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote: Please Mr. Card, get a real screenwriter and stop pretending like you actually know how to write a decent screenplay
Orson Scott Card was an established and successful playwright long before his success in science fiction.
Posted by odouls268 (Member # 2145) on :
quote: Yeah, it was definitely tragic all right and the only weeping I saw or heard at the theater were hundreds of girls crying at seeing Brad Pitt’s half naked body and hundreds of men crying at seeing Brad Pitt’s half naked body. Yeah I guess Peterson didn’t sell out when signed a whole cast of eye candy to fill his movie.
Whole cast? Ajax, NOT eye candy Agamemnon, NOT eye candy Boagrius, NOT eye candy Menelaus, NOT eye candy Priam, NOT eye candy (Any more anyway)
You are eternally bad at this game.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Wow, the opening poster really is just a one-trick pony.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
It makes you wonder why he/she ever signed up...
Posted by James Schindler (Member # 11273) on :
quote:Orson Scott Card was an established and successful playwright long before his success in science fiction.
First off, i believe there are differences between a script and a screenplay. This i agree with that OSC should hire a professional to write a screenplay, if not to use to at least see how someone else who did not write the books put it into a movie.
becides that MAGIC RAT YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!
Bean has a really important role and it changes your thoughts on Enders Game if you know about Beans role. 99% of movies have a good amount of special effects cause special effects can be anything from an entire CG world to just a single matte shot with people in a car.
I dont even have the patients to comment on how wrong the rest is
Posted by Stephen Sunday (Member # 10466) on :
The best thing about Ender's Game The Movie is that it means at some point in the future, there will likely be a game called "Ender's Game: The Movie: The Game" and the idea of a title like that makes me chuckle a lot.
Posted by James Schindler (Member # 11273) on :
lol i havent thought of the fact that the title would be ****ed up for the game
hopefully like i mentioned in the topic i started the game will be good, cause it can be if its done correctly
Posted by sadar7 (Member # 11438) on :
The key is to NOT make a movie. OSC needs to take the risk to make the first multiple season cable show to give a book nearly word for word fidelity, and I don't mean Sci-Fi, I mean HBO, huge production, perhaps Ender's Game and Enders' Shadow produced and released in parallel. This could lead to HUGE DVD sales that would make movie sales seem pale by comparison ($10 movie ticket + $15 dvd vs. 5 times $50 dvd season set) and I would even prepay for these DVDs in order to fund the production (another idea that needs to be picked up by someone). This is the first sci-fi book to recieve props from the regular lit community (I see college anthologies of the future containing Huckleberry Finn, The Metamorphasis, and Ender's Game) and it deserves more than a film. I don't mean a mere mini-series (I think three huge movies ala Lord of the Rings & Matrix would be better than that), I mean full series on a cable channel that wouldn't be afraid of OSC's vision. And not to disappoint anyone, but OSC is on record as saying there will be several games coming out of the movie: http://news.filefront.com/gaming-todays-exclusive-interview-with-author-orson-scott-card/ Posted by String (Member # 6435) on :
quote:Originally posted by sadar7: The key is to NOT make a movie. OSC needs to take the risk to make the first multiple season cable show to give a book nearly word for word fidelity, and I don't mean Sci-Fi, I mean HBO, huge production, perhaps Ender's Game and Enders' Shadow produced and released in parallel. This could lead to HUGE DVD sales that would make movie sales seem pale by comparison ($10 movie ticket + $15 dvd vs. 5 times $50 dvd season set) and I would even prepay for these DVDs in order to fund the production (another idea that needs to be picked up by someone). This is the first sci-fi book to recieve props from the regular lit community (I see college anthologies of the future containing Huckleberry Finn, The Metamorphasis, and Ender's Game) and it deserves more than a film. I don't mean a mere mini-series (I think three huge movies ala Lord of the Rings & Matrix would be better than that), I mean full series on a cable channel that wouldn't be afraid of OSC's vision. And not to disappoint anyone, but OSC is on record as saying there will be several games coming out of the movie: http://news.filefront.com/gaming-todays-exclusive-interview-with-author-orson-scott-card/
Been preaching something similar since I registered in 04. Amen.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Originally posted by sadar7: This is the first sci-fi book to recieve props from the regular lit community
It isn't, actually. Kurt Vonnegut's work might be a contender, as might Ursula K. LeGuin's. Or Samuel R. Delaney's. Or John Brunner's. It's entirely likely that I'm spacing off an earlier author who has received praise from the lit-fic crowd.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Philip K. Dick would be in there, as would Heinlein. I think the earliest, though, might be Verne.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
Mary Shelley.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Sure, on all of those. Cyrano de Bergerac would count too, I suppose.
Posted by Colin (Member # 11448) on :
This movie will be well hated by many and praised by a whole other bunch. We can't expect it to be the same as the books. I, for one, got very excited to know that the story of Ender's Shadow would be incorporated into the script, as it is one of my ever favorite books, I like it even more than Ender's game, but that's just me.
My believes are that there's no better man to write the screenplay than Mr. Card, he is the one who knows the character by heart, and someone else wouldn't be completely successful at portraying his/her own vision of them all into a new movie. It all goes down to concept and creativity. The only thing we can do, though, is hope they won't ruin it, but I trust Mr. Card.
After all, Serenity IS the best sci-fi movie of the decade...
Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I have plenty of time to wait around as long as the movie gets "done right". I think the mistake would be to go "full speed ahead", as you suggest. Slow and steady wins the race--tortoises rule! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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