There is a long-lived anekdote in UC Berkeley about a physics professor who had been asked by students what was the purpose of physics. This had happened during an introductory physics course for premeds. The professor pondered the question and said something along the lines: "Physics saves lives. It prevents the likes of you from becoming doctors."
Now, this had been taken as a huge offense by the students, and the professor had some trouble with the university.
This seems curious to me because in my home country students would laugh and ridicule anybody among themselves who would take offense. On the other hand I find an average american college student much more reasonable and capable of intelligent discussion supported by facts and logic (although less knowledgeable overall) than an average university student from my country.
I wonder if political correctness indicate an unfortunate step between one being somewhat free-minded and argumentative and being free, clever and honest enough so one does not need political correctness as a shield?
Posted by Irregardless (Member # 8529) on :
Fortunately, UC Berkeley is not remotely representative of typical American sensitivity.
Posted by Crocobar (Member # 9102) on :
What about typical american _college_ sensitivity?
Posted by Crocobar (Member # 9102) on :
As a side note, I find it remarkable how americans categorize themselves. I was travelling in Florida, and got to talking with a waiter in a roadside cafe. He was a white 50-year-old american and complained about northern dialects and how he hated "what those yankees did to the language". Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Well, the problem is that in America there are a few misonceptions. One is the insane belief that is fine for encouraging children, but eventually must be realized as untrue. They indoctinate us with "Anyone can do anything they want in life" which is simply NOT true. No matter how hard I practiced, I was never going to be able to be an olympic athelet, or even good enough to place varsity in high school. I was born uncoordinated, and years of practic, and therapy, and training didn't catch me up to the strengths of my peers. Likewise, some children aren't going to be rocket scientists, even if they try REALLY REALLY hard. It doesn't make them bad people, or worth less, they're just not gunna be able to do it. The other thing is that America has gone so far overboard with "equality", which while ideal isn't possible to achieve, and in their desperate attempt to achieve it, they've confused it with identical. One of the reasons our college students score so much lower on average is that we have a much broader spectrum of people attending college, compared to other countries. These days in america, the university is supposed to be for EVERYONE. Needless to say it doesn't work out very well, but we keep trying. The scary part of this is that there are some kids who really think that they should be able to enter highly lucrative and specialized fields (like medicine) simply because they WANT to, even if they don't have the skills. That professor was insensitive, but it probably was more of a joke than anything else. However, these students took it as an insult because they felt that by telling them intelligence was required to be a doctor he was saying that they just might now really have what it takes.... that's a no no in education these days.
Posted by GodSpoken (Member # 9358) on :
American culture is something of a mixed bag. It is not the same in any two geographic areas of our country, but we do seem to have some trends.
Our original premise has sort of morphed into something all on its own. Most aspects of life occur in accordance with the bell curve, and we don't really make policy or even aspirations accordingly. The bell curve would imply acknowleging and/or dealing with the ends (the less than able/successful/etc and the hyperable)as exceptions and addressing first the masses in the middle.
We have come to mainly celebrate, strive for, even demand all things on the far upper end, and despise ignore and try to eliminate the lower, then associate the middle with disappointment.
I am not judging the value of this model, only observing it. Like any thing that has come to be, it has strengths and weaknesses. When things happen in America that go into what looks absurd to other cultures, its usually just us plugging a topic into our model.
Personal opinion: we should do a better job of self reflection and decide what things are helpful to use our model on, and when to see the value of the bell curve. We could use a little balance.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Crocobar: As a side note, I find it remarkable how americans categorize themselves. I was travelling in Florida, and got to talking with a waiter in a roadside cafe. He was a white 50-year-old american and complained about northern dialects and how he hated "what those yankees did to the language".
Well, the original "Yankees " were from the north. But now the term has spread to include all Americans.
E.B. White: To foreigners, a Yankee is an American. To Americans, a Yankee is a Northerner. To Easterners, a Yankee is a New Englander. To New Englanders, a Yankee is a Vermonter. And in Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast. Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: As a side note, I find it remarkable how americans categorize themselves.
Remember that the United States is larger than Europe. It's not surprising that we're not one big homogenous group.
The distance from southern Florida to New England is about the same distance that Russia is from France.
From the US East Coast to the US West Coast is about twice that distance.
[ June 28, 2006, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by Crocobar (Member # 9102) on :
> From the US East Coast to the US West Coast is about twice that distance. It is about the same as distance from my home city to our capital, and people do not generally consider themselves different. Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
just one comment on the "we don't make policy accordingly".... have you looked at how the "No Child Left Behind" Act is REALLY being implemented in schools? I work for a testing company, so I get to see how lots of states are using it, and it's kinda crazy.
Posted by chickenfeet (Member # 9451) on :
quote: I wonder if political correctness indicate an unfortunate step between one being somewhat free-minded and argumentative and being free, clever and honest enough so one does not need political correctness as a shield?
I suspect it might be more of a difference in the eduacation system and perhaps the type of student that wants to become a doctor. In some countries, being a doctor is not as prestegious and pays less well as in the USA. Also in some countries medical school is less competitive than in the USA.
I teach an intro biology lab to premed students, and most of them are less concered with learning the material than they are with getting an "A" to have on their med school application. It's sad but that is the system and how it gets worked. It is a stereotype but it is somewhat true that premed students in the USA are uptight grade grubbers.
So I think it might be a different kind of difference.
Posted by Nikisknight (Member # 8918) on :
eh, My chemistry prof said something similar, and it's generally (I thought) aknowledged to be so--Just look at the size of a 100 (freshman) science class, and a 400 level class. Probably 4 times as many students in there or more, (or else it is a class offered every other semester or year.) Guess the students think that it is just their peers who have a chance of "changing their minds", never themselves. Perhaps being babied the last 12 years of their education, they balk at actually being actountable for their performance, at having goals that, gasp, depend upon their efforts and abilities rather than their ardent desires or even flights of fancy. That and people get too bloody offended these days. I mean, it's really just a joke at physics expense as much as theirs.
And regarding the other bit that came up, I once heard a great line--The difference between USA and Britian is that in Britain 100 miles is a long way, and in America 100 years is a long time.
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
At Creighton, there were several required pre-med classes which were well known to be extremely difficult with low average grades, with the intent of weeding out students who weren't ready to work their butt off for an A.
I'm happy that they were there. I thought about med school for a while, but after a few semesters, I realized that no WAY did I want to spend that much time studying.
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