Man oh man, this excerpt got me primed for the new book. Really interesting idea for a book, and a really quick read. I haven't read much OSC fiction in the past, but I'll sure pick up this one.
I have to say though, the action scenes threw me. They went by really quick and before you knew you were in them, they were over.
I wish he'd put a little more detail in there. I don't like a bunch of long winded desctriptions and stuff, but there wasn't anything there that let me picture what was going on.
I'm thinking about the scene in the village. I couldn't tell where the village was, what the buildings were like, or how many terrorists the good guys counted.
Had trouble picturing the scene with the scuba swimmers going by, too. Same thing with the shoot out.
I'm not some critic jealously lashing out at a writer. I liked it. But I know OSC mentioned this was his first thriller and he watched 24 to help him pace it, so I thought I'd point out something that seemed a little off to me.
I really wish the action was built up to, and extended just a little bit, and that there was a little more description.
They really could be exciting within such an interesting scenario.
Thanks for the sneak preview! I can't wait until the whole thing comes out.
Posted by hatrkr81 (Member # 9317) on :
I'm guessing you're talking about Empire. And like you said in your post, the whole thing isn't out yet and OSC said that this was not the final copy...so don't be too critical yet. Your questions may all be answered. By the way, welcome to the boards!! Posted by MaGlick (Member # 9648) on :
Hey, thanks for the welcome. Yes, I was talking about Empire. And no, I really didn't mean to be critical.
I really liked the dialogue, such as the banter with the secretary and between the professor and the hero.
I also like the whole notion of a potential overthrow, and hadn't ever heard the idea about America being on the verge of becoming an empire (as opposed to already being one about ready to topple over).
I could make a really long list of what I liked. And I read the whole excerpt in one sitting, so it really is compelling stuff.
I just thought I'd throw out my one quibble, because I know he reads these boards some times.
I don't think it would take much to "fix" those action scenes, as they are not "broken."
I just think with a little tweaking, what now seems like the weakest part could become really strong.
It was probably a little presumptuous of me, especially for a first post.
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
Wasn't that the idea behind his posting of those chapters, to get constructive feedback?
This is the critical time for criticism (pun intended), before it's set in stone in the final copy. Like he's said before about criticism about a published book, what's he going to do, rewrite it? But before it's published is the exact time to tell him what works and what doesn't work for different readers, because if it turns out it's not just a one-reader quirk but an actual pacing, description, whatever problem, he can make it better.
So, unless I'm misreading his intent in posting those chapters entirely, there's nothing presumptuous in your post whatsoever.
And even if I am...well, at least it's not a "top ten reasons why Ender's Game, the movie, will suck" post!
Posted by TheHumanTarget (Member # 7129) on :
quote: I have to say though, the action scenes threw me. They went by really quick and before you knew you were in them, they were over.
Such is the nature of intense action. It's over faster than you would believe.
Posted by hatrkr81 (Member # 9317) on :
Agreed Gwen...the "top ten reasons why Ender's Game, the movie, will suck" post is in my "top ten threads on here that grate at my skin the most." Also on that list would be the world watch post where the author of the thread bashed OSC for having opinions. Geesh!
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I didn't have any problem with the village. But then, I've been following a blog from Afghanistan, so I just filled in the blanks from that. In the scenes from DC, what I thought I knew about the area seemed to contradict what he was describing. But an inspection of Google maps showed he was right.
Posted by MaGlick (Member # 9648) on :
"Such is the nature of intense action. It's over faster than you would believe."
That isn't really what I meant. When I said the action scenes were over before I began, I was talking about the scene with the heroes spotting the scuba divers. I thought that could've been built up more.
As for not having enough description, I meant both physical description of the area and a fuller description of what the people are doing.
I couldn't picture the surroundings or what was going on. It read sorta like a 2nd hand recounting of the events.
Check out the battle scene in the village to really see what I'm talking about. There's nothing specific going on until the cheiftain gets killed, which coulda been a more powerful moment if it were built up to more.
It kinda reminds me of Deets getting killed in Lonesome Dove. With more build up, I think it coulda really packed a punch. As it is, it never really seemed real to me.
Sorry to belabor the point. Just trying to explain what I meant.
And like I said, I really enjoyed the chapters over all.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
I tend not to write detailed descriptions of anything - I give you what the characters notice and move on. It's either one of my worst flaws or one of the best aspects of my writing - depending on whether you like lots of description or get impatient with it. I get impatient with it, so I write what I want to read <grin>.
Besides, what more would I SAY about the ripples on the surface of the water than the fact that Cole saw them and pointed them out to Reuben and then they went crazy with doing stuff? It was the stuff they did BECAUSE of the guys passing by underwater that I cared about.
In truth, I have FAR more action in this than I usually do, and for me, some of it went on and on! <grin>
In short: I can't strike the right balance for everybody - or really for anybody but me ... I can only hope that there are bunches of people who want exactly the level of description that I provide.
Posted by MaGlick (Member # 9648) on :
Cool beans.
As I said, I really did enjoy the chapters and look forward to reading the final book in a couple of months.
I liked the fast pace everywhere else. Going off what you said about this being 1/4 of the total, it'll be nice to read a thriller without getting bogged down in 750 pages of lumbering intrigue (which seems to be the standard for the genre).
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: I tend not to write detailed descriptions of anything - I give you what the characters notice and move on. It's either one of my worst flaws or one of the best aspects of my writing - depending on whether you like lots of description or get impatient with it. I get impatient with it, so I write what I want to read <grin>.
Besides, what more would I SAY about the ripples on the surface of the water than the fact that Cole saw them and pointed them out to Reuben and then they went crazy with doing stuff? It was the stuff they did BECAUSE of the guys passing by underwater that I cared about.
In truth, I have FAR more action in this than I usually do, and for me, some of it went on and on! <grin>
In short: I can't strike the right balance for everybody - or really for anybody but me ... I can only hope that there are bunches of people who want exactly the level of description that I provide.
oh man, I don't think you could make it through The Wheel of Time series...
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
I've heard it called The Waste of Time series, for precisely that reason.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"I tend not to write detailed descriptions of anything - I give you what the characters notice and move on. It's either one of my worst flaws or one of the best aspects of my writing - depending on whether you like lots of description or get impatient with it."
I love that you leave the scenes up to the reader's imagination. I don't like reading long descriptions of things and I almost always skip over them when reading, partly because I picture the scenes my own way anyways and mostly because I have severe ADD and I hate scenes that drag One of the reasons your one of my favorite authors is because of all of the books I've read from you, I don't think I've ever wanted to skip around while reading them.
Posted by cheiros do ender (Member # 8849) on :
I want exactly the level of description you provide, OSC.
I didn't need heaps for the Scuba diving scene; I know what the ocean looks like. I didn't need it for the original scene; I know what a desert looks like (and a desert town).
quote:I'm not some critic jealously lashing out at a writer. I liked it. But I know OSC mentioned this was his first thriller and he watched 24 to help him pace it, so I thought I'd point out something that seemed a little off to me.
Did he really say that? One of the Shadow Series (I think Giant) was a thriller, if I remember rightly.
[ August 29, 2006, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: cheiros do ender ]
Posted by MaGlick (Member # 9648) on :
Yup, he said it in one of his columns. Said he watched the first season of 24 to study pacing and such.
I still stick by my guns, but like y'all have said, it's a matter of choice.
The way they're set up, they read like a second hand account to me, with no images or descriptions to help me picture it. I know what water looks like too. But I don't even think the story told you if the scuba divers were spotted by ripples, moving shadows, or blaring klaxons.
But it held my interest. And the fact I want more (and more from what's there) only demonstrates that overall it is compelling stuff.
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
MaGlick - we don't even disagree. All a matter of taste.
But just as an aside, I've had people really tear into me for "graphic" violence and "graphic" sex, and when I challenge them, they can't find the scene they were offended by. Why? Because there IS nothing graphic in my writing. But they were so involved in the story that their imagination created something quite disturbing.
Now, it would be cheap for me to say it was all their fault - if you don't think I WANT people to vividly imagine what I create, you're crazy! <grin>. But people do read differently. It's rather like the way some people can get nauseated from just the words "worm sandwich," while to others (like me) they're just words. Some people visualize quickly and easily and fill in huge amounts of detail themselves, without even realizing it; others need it spelled out more. Neither way is better than the other - just different.
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
One of the reasons your one of my favorite authors is because of all of the books I've read from you, I don't think I've ever wanted to skip around while reading them.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)