I'm sure you don't really need MY encouragement, but here it is anyway.
I sincerely hope you aren't taking the criticism on the new book seriously. Authors write things that bother people all the time, and I don't know that many get the kind of flack you're getting for "Empire."
If the book says what you intended it to say, then don't futz with it. It will either sell or it won't, that's the risk any writer makes.
Sure I have my gripe, but that's MY problem, not yours. Unless you truly feel that something needs to be fixed, don't change a thing. People in movies and books offend us all the time, and no one gives a flying rat's behind one way or another. It sort of makes one wonder what all the bruhaha is all about anyway. I personally can't wait to read the rest!
I'm sure you know all of this, but I just wanted to add my support.
Most sincerely, AnnaMaria Olsen Anchorage, Alaska
Posted by docmgmt (Member # 9542) on :
I agree. You know your craft far better than us, and have the book sales to prove it. I think most of the criticisms are done from the standpoint of wanting you to be successful. I think people's hearts are in the right place and we support you. I wish more authors provided sneak previews of their upcoming works. And since you've got a very active online community, providing a sneak preview AND offering forums to discuss it takes courage, a thick skin and a desire to hear from the fans. Kudos.
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
AMEN! Posted by TommySama (Member # 9669) on :
"I sincerely hope you aren't taking the criticism on the new book seriously."
I sure hope he does, otherwise, whats the point of discussing his books at all? Most of the disagreements people made about his book that were political were stupid, but I don't think it's a bad thing for him to see what his hard core fans at hatrack really think of the beginning of the book. Just like he has a right to defend what he wrote and how he wrote it. Often times it turns out he has a pretty good reason for doing whatever he did.
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
I have the utmost respect for his writing something of that caliber, and to all the critics, help is good, but once you disdain, I must ask you to provide something of equal magnitude.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Most of the disagreements people made about his book that were political were stupid...
Any in particular you'd care to weigh in on, or are you restricting yourself to vaguely directed insults?
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
quote:I have the utmost respect for his writing something of that caliber,
Me too.
quote:and to all the critics, help is good, but once you disdain, I must ask you to provide something of equal magnitude.
Has anyone?
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
Sorry for the double post, but it's a different subject and it's sufficiently later that an edit is a bad idea.
To go back to the OP:
quote:Authors write things that bother people all the time, and I don't know that many get the kind of flack you're getting for "Empire."
He's not getting flak, he's getting reactions from his readers, and I hope he can tell the difference.
quote:If the book says what you intended it to say, then don't futz with it.
And if it doesn't, do.
quote:People in movies and books offend us all the time, and no one gives a flying rat's behind one way or another. It sort of makes one wonder what all the bruhaha is all about anyway.
Aw, Gwen, it's just a book, it's just entertainment, lighten up.
Just entertainment? People emulate and believe what they read in books.
And besides, if the perpetrators of liberal-hatred (which is a group I don't think Mr. Card intends to belong to, which is why I'm questioning his slant) in entertainment really believed "it's just entertainment," then they'd also give a pass to woman-bashing and Polish jokes and ... but they don't. (None that I've read anyway, which is admittedly a small sample.)
Well, Gwen, what are you calling for, censorship? Don't you know that this is art, with freedom of expression?
Absolutely. But I'm not calling for censorship. I'm calling for the author who created this show to take responsibility for the harm they do to our society by denigrating the liberal contributions to human life, even--no, especially--if the denigration is accidental and meant to sound like it comes from a character, when to some people it instead sounds like it comes from the author. Who has more credibility, as the author of so many books involving politics, than the fictional character of Reuben Malek does.
The more influence you have -- like when millions of readers read the books you write -- the heavier the responsibility you bear.
Right?
Posted by lynn johnson (Member # 9620) on :
Gwensays: "perpetrators of liberal-hatred. " Conservatives don't hate liberals. They do worry us, even frighten us.
You advocate things that would destroy all that I hold as holy and dear, if you are a typical liberal. In my view, you (generic liberials)have damaged my society. Without conservative brakes, the damage would be much worse. Why not be fearful?
I do a bit of university teaching, and am astonished at the narrow mindedness of the liberals I try to talk to. The other thing is the lack of courtesy. Perhaps you had the mirror experience, that isn't unlikely. But it remains that liberals are remarkably rude to me. What OSC portrays with Malak in academe is not far from the fact.
Liberals aren't going to buy a thriller anyway. It will be folks like me, lowbrowed butt-scratching banjo players. And we will chuckle about Malak in University-land.
Of course, OSC will probably pull a fast one and all my assumptions with be upended. Dad-gumit.
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
Never said they did. But *some* people do, and so when they see Mr. Card appear to, they won't think "wow, that's weird, I've never seen anyone talk like that before," they'll think that he's one of those perpetrators.
I'm still not sure what a liberal is, exactly; what are libertarians considered, for instance, or Adam Smith? so I go by "independent" and hope I'll find people and policies I can stand behind without having to apologize. And hope that someday I'll understand why the liberals are telling us to conserve our resources and the conservatives are telling us to preserve our liberties (to own a gun and pray in school, at least, even for the non-libertarians)!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote: Liberals aren't going to buy a thriller anyway. It will be folks like me, lowbrowed butt-scratching banjo players. And we will chuckle about Malak in University-land.
I would hope that OSC manages in this book to confound, rather than pander to, the stereotypes and shibboleths he criticizes.
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
Alright y'all, just stop the conservative/liberal bickering. This thread was intended to be supportive and free of the political bickering that is going on everywhere else this book is mentioned. I am certainly sick of it. Forgive me for trying to give someone a word of encouragement for cripe's sake. I just thought, after reading his responses in the thread "The first five chapters..." he'd appreciate a good word.
We have already established that most of the criticism has been intended as constructive. We DO NOT NEED ANOTHER DEBATE ON THE EVILS OF CONSERVATIVISM/LIBERALISM. Please stop.
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
I like everything I have read that has OSC's name on it. Might not be much, but I really like his books. I think he is an awesome writer and even if some people think his work isn't good I am pretty sure there are more that think it is good then bad.
And for anyone who doesn't like his writings maybe they should sit back and ask themselves what they've done with their life, if I remember correctly hasn't he won count them 4 Hugo Awards and one Campbell Award (which I am not sure if it is an actual Hugo Award) not to mention that one of his books is as I write this in preproduction to become a movie.
I know I can't say that can anyone else?
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I'm with MommaMuse and B34N on this one... I read Card's books to ENJOY them, not nit-pick silly details. Especially within the first 5 chapters.
Shoot - the best I've done with my 'writing career' is to win some silly poetry awards, who am I to criticize someone who's got the presence of mind to put together MANY novels. Kudos to Mr. Card and all that he's accomplished thus far in his life. Much more than I probably will, literary-wise anyway...
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I know, right. Sometimes, I make food for people who don't cook and they've got the gall to tell me that they don't like it or that I put too much salt in.
And then a friend tells me about a movie he saw and even though he's never made a movie himself, he'll talk about the things he liked or didn't like about it. What's up with that?
---
There are different kind of fans, I think. I'm the type that is a fan of the work, and not of the person. That is, I don't automatically assume that something must be good because it came from someone I've liked in the past. When I read (or eat, or watch) something, I judge it based on whether or not I like it.
If I'm talking about it to other people, I try to express why I think I didn't like it, always remembering that it may just not be my cup of tea. If I think that something was poorly (or very well) done, I express, along with this judgement, the reasons why I think I made that judgement.
To me, answering back with why you may disagree with me or with an attempt to get me to see things another way is a more satisfying and dare I say mature form of conversation than saying "Oh yeah. Well, you have a lot of nerve having an opinion, what with you not having as high a level of achievement in this area." (Okay, no one will actually talk like that - at least without risking a severe wedgie - but you get my point. I believe in the marketplace of ideas, not that of dueling authority.
---
I just had a funny thought about what my career as a research scientist would be like if I followed that rule. How dare I try to prove that self-esteem is often not a particularly good thing for people to seek? Don't I know that prominent researchers with muhc more experience behind them disagree with me? I should just listen to them. That's the way we advance knowledge.
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"Sometimes, I make food for people who don't cook and they've got the gall to tell me that they don't like it or that I put too much salt in.
And then a friend tells me about a movie he saw and even though he's never made a movie himself, he'll talk about the things he liked or didn't like about it. What's up with that?"
Well, I think those are a bit different. The first one, if you do just tell the person who was nice enough to cook for you that you think they're a terrible cook and you hate their food, that's wrong. If you describe to them what you did or didn't like about their food and how you, the taster, think they can make it taste better, that's great. I didn't read any of the criticism so I'm not sure how this relates to anything that was said. Just pointing out that your "they don't like it or that I put too much salt in" statement kind of depends on which action you take.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
GaalDornick - I agree with you if you mean that constructive criticism is an awesome thing. I suppose what I just don't get the 'let's argue amongst ourselves about ourselves' if the original point was to provide encouragement... : )
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
I completely agree. The issue isn't whether or not someone is an authority in the area, but rather whether they are just saying "This sucks!" or whether they are providing criticisms and the reasoning behind these criticisms.
I was trying to show how silly the idea that people had no right to criticize or even dislike part of an OSC book unless they were an author of equal stature is.
---
Incidentally, criticize my cooking and I just might have an "accident" next time I'm over, chopping up the vegetables with my 12 inch chef's knife. Get my drift?
Posted by GaalDornick (Member # 8880) on :
"Incidentally, criticize my cooking and I just might have an "accident" next time I'm over, chopping up the vegetables with my 12 inch chef's knife. Get my drift?
Is this still a metaphor for criticizing Empire? Because if it is I'm really lost.
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
No, it's a metaphor for the berserker-like fury with which I will rain down vengence upon those who dare to eat the food that I make for them and fail to express the proper gratitude.
I mean, I took a bagel and made it into a pizza. It's a little concoction I like to call a "bagel with tomato sauce and cheese on it" or BWTSACOI for short. Who else thinks of things like this? I just don't think "Thanks, man." covers it. Oh, but I'll get mine. Oh yes, I will indeed.
Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
*giggling*
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
quote:Is this still a metaphor for criticizing Empire? Because if it is I'm really lost.
Yes, next time you're at a book signing, if he recognizes you from your criticisms of Empire, he'll stab you with the pen he uses to autograph books. With a berserker-like fury, raining down vengeance.
(Edited for formatting.)
[ August 18, 2006, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Gwen ]
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Okay wait... I had mentioned (i'm pretty sure somewhere else) that I hadn't been to a signing !yet!. Um - maybe I'm glad. I think I might be scared of berserker-like furies, especially when acted out by people I admire... Although, upon further inner-dialogue, in some cases such a fury may be warranted...
*tee-heeeeee*
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
quote:Yes, next time you're at a book signing, if he recognizes you from your criticisms of Empire, he'll stab you with the pen he uses to autograph books. With a berserker-like fury, raining down vengeance.
Just so people don't get worried, I'm pretty sure Gwen's not being serious here.
Having been to a signing, I can tell you that OSC maintains a strict division between the signing pens and the stabbin' ones.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That does explain why I didn't get stabbed at the last signing. Just ribbed a bit. Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
As a part time lurker, who really just looks over this forum when I am bored at work. I have always found it very interesting that so many people who seem to dislike OSC constantly post on his website.
I found empire interesting and can't wait to read the rest. One criticism I read was characters were unbelievable. I personally know several intelligent, conservative, men of faith who happen to have supportive wives.
I have found that people tend to associate with people similar to themselves. They find people who are different from themselves hard to believe. Your character's opinions are not the first time I've heard that point of view so I find them completely believable. I used to date a girl who came from a divorced family. My parents are still married. One day we figured out that all of my friend's parents were still married and not one of her friend's parents were still together. We gravitate toward people who think like we do and have a hard time understanding people who don't.
This is supposed to be an encouragement thread, So OSC keep up the good work. I think the book will be great. Do what you want in your books. Art by committee is a bad thing. When I was a graphic designer this was a lesson I learned again and again.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
quote:Originally posted by SC Carver: As a part time lurker, who really just looks over this forum when I am bored at work. I have always found it very interesting that so many people who seem to dislike OSC constantly post on his website.
I find it interesting how many people can't seem to tell the difference between critique of a particular aspect of a particular work and dislike of the person who wrote it.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
quote:Originally posted by dkw:
quote:Originally posted by SC Carver: As a part time lurker, who really just looks over this forum when I am bored at work. I have always found it very interesting that so many people who seem to dislike OSC constantly post on his website.
I find it interesting how many people can't seem to tell the difference between critique of a particular aspect of a particular work and dislike of the person who wrote it.
I'm not sure that this one aspect is the only occasion on which OSC has been attacked on his website. Or is it that one can not make general comments regarding a forum while posting in a thread with a particular topic? Or is it just too dern confusing?
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
I assumed that SC Carver's comment was specifically directed at the Empire thread, because it was made in a thread in which the OP made similar comments, so dkw's post made sense. But it is possible that the comment really was intended in the general sense that it's odd that all the people who post on here to talk about how much they actually dislike OSC even bother, in which case, I absolutely agree. It's like hate mail...all right, you hate me, now why did you take all that time out of your day to write to me and tell me how much you hate me? What good does that do?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:I'm not sure that this one aspect is the only occasion on which OSC has been attacked on his website.
I can't recall a time when OSC himself has ever been attacked on his website by anyone except a newbie who'd just created an account for the express purpose of coming here and complaining about his position on, say, homosexual marriage.
Posted by SC Carver (Member # 8173) on :
I can appreciate a good critique. You don't get through art school without learning how to deal with them. If you are smart you learn to gleam the useful from the crapola. I am sure OSC finds good critisims useful.
I'll agree that most of the crictism is directed at OSC's political views, not his books or him personally. The Empire thread seem to be the execption. Some of those seem to get pretty close to personal. Besides if you are attaching my personal beliefs I would find it hard not to take it personally.
Maybe one thing that makes this forum interesting is its not just a collection of fans talking about how cool the writer is.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:I'm not sure that this one aspect is the only occasion on which OSC has been attacked on his website.
I can't recall a time when OSC himself has ever been attacked on his website by anyone except a newbie who'd just created an account for the express purpose of coming here and complaining about his position on, say, homosexual marriage.
I don't think Lalo was a newbie when he started that long thread, the one that was ultimately renamed "Good ..., OSC!"
I guess it depends on the distinction you draw between "criticize" and "attack."
Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :
quote:I'll agree that most of the crictism is directed at OSC's political views, not his books or him personally. The Empire thread seem to be the execption. Some of those seem to get pretty close to personal. Besides if you are attaching my personal beliefs I would find it hard not to take it personally.
In the Empire thread people are specifically not attacking Mr. Card's political beliefs (or him personally), but rather his books...well, not attacking but criticizing, and not the book but the phrasing of certain parts in the book. It's not meant to be taken personally.
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
Gwen,
perhaps it wasn't INTENDED to be a personal attack, but I've read most all of "The first 5 chapters..." thread, and a lot of those posts sounded to ME like personal attacks, and they weren't even directed at me. And I know that I was not the only one that felt that way. I hope that didn't sound hostile, I'm just sayin'.
And to everyone in general,
It's not that constructive feedback and criticism is bad, it's that everyone SEEMS so hell bent on being offended politically.
AND I realize that criticism isn't all bad, but I started THIS thread to lend support, not give everyone a new place to vent their spleen. Criticize and offer feedback all you want, but please, out of respect for ME, do it on one of the other threads.
So, relax, get something you like to drink or eat, and enjoy the good vibes I'm trying so hard to share with everyone!
Love, Peace, and Chicken Grease! Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
And BTW, thanks to everyone that has understood my intent and shared their good vibes, too. You guys ROCK! Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I feel the love, I'm diggin' the chicken grease, and I'm reveling in the good vibes... It's the Peace we need to work on...
(for the record - no political ANYTHING in that last part - just truth)
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:perhaps it wasn't INTENDED to be a personal attack, but I've read most all of "The first 5 chapters..." thread, and a lot of those posts sounded to ME like personal attacks, and they weren't even directed at me.
You have been, and are, overreacting.
quote:AND I realize that criticism isn't all bad, but I started THIS thread to lend support, not give everyone a new place to vent their spleen. Criticize and offer feedback all you want, but please, out of respect for ME, do it on one of the other threads.
I appreciate the sentiment here, but it's important that you go ahead and learn that just because you started a thread doesn't mean you have a say so over its' content, beyond what any other poster does, of course.
Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
quote:
quote:AND I realize that criticism isn't all bad, but I started THIS thread to lend support, not give everyone a new place to vent their spleen. Criticize and offer feedback all you want, but please, out of respect for ME, do it on one of the other threads.
I appreciate the sentiment here, but it's important that you go ahead and learn that just because you started a thread doesn't mean you have a say so over its' content, beyond what any other poster does, of course.
Threads here at Hatrack generally tend to travel forth rather like a conversation in that aspect. That is to say, it seems to be a norm of this community to expect perhaps more divergence of threads from the original topic than one might find elsewhere.
Of course, you are welcome to buck the community norms as you choose, MommaMuse (and, BTW, welcome to Hatrack!* ), and it's entirely possible that the Cards may lay down the law through PapaJanitor that things stay more strictly on schedule. But this is one of those things that is likely to cause some consternation unless things change or you get used to it. Or unless you relish the challenge. *smile
---
*PS: I've been around since 1999 or so, mostly in the guise of "ClaudiaTherese." I'm currently too disorganized, lazy, and yet simultaneously respectful of PJ's limited free time to figure out my old password. (I lean heavily on the latter reason in my explanations to myself. It just looks better.)
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
No offense to El JT de spang, but that sort of attitude is too defeatist for me. =) It's the sort of thought process that allows biting children to remain in a daycare setting with no dicipline, and no regard for the safety of the other children. If people wouldn't just say "It's just the way it is, learn to live with it," (despite the fact that the biter is taking literal chunks out of the other children through clothing)the biting would stop, and things would be a lot more friendly and respectful all around.
On the same note, there is something about online forums that encourages the worst out of people that would otherwise have better manners. I'm no different, I'll admit, but as least I'm trying. Just because you CAN do whatever you want, doesn't necessarily mean you should, I mean, DUH, right?
Perhaps I AM just standing on a soap box. Perhaps it IS hopeless to try to influence a little change and encourage common courtesy and politeness. Perhaps we NEED a place to be the assholes (pardon the language) that we otherwise wouldn't be, but I personally believe that when you start being sloppy in one part of your life, it carries over to every part of your life. We ALL have a mean-spirited little beast somewhere inside us, and when you're a faceless entity, made entirely of words and sometimes pictures, it's easy to let that little bastich out. Forums, public chat rooms, and buletin boards are notorious for hostility, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T be different once in a while!
And ssasse, I DO like a challenge, but honestly, even though I don't have control over what other people say ad think, is it so wrong to just ASK? I figure that people are cool enough to understand my sincere and heartfelt plea, and be kind enough at least TRY to be nice!
And, yeah, I probably did overreact, I am like that sometimes, but I usually have a reason behind it, even if it's not immediately apparent.
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
Oh! and thanks for the welcome, Ssasse! I seem to remember hearing the Claudia Therese name before, but not in here...I seem to recall someone mentioning you in relation to this website, but I don't recall where. And it was good, BTW!
Anyway, again, thanks for the welcome! Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:Perhaps it IS hopeless to try to influence a little change and encourage common courtesy and politeness.
Perhaps it's rude to suggest that there was not ALREADY common courtesy and politeness before you encouraged it.
Posted by ssasse (Member # 9516) on :
You see, MommaMuse, that's it -- what TomD said. There is common courtesy and politeness here, just not of the same variety as that to which you may be accustomed. Here, it is generally considered somewhat rude to enforce rigidly one's own desires for the drift of the conversation.
Of course, I don't think that it is necessarily intrinsically rude to do so, as there are venues for which such customs are the norm -- other fora, perhaps, and private discussions between two people, and mettings at the UN, and so forth. [and were I in one of those settings, I would think it rude if I were not to acceed to prevailing norms, excepting very good reasons not to] But this place is more thought of as a "living room" -- this is OSC's metaphor for it, I believe, although I'm not sure what his preferences are for thread drift, mind you. And so we are all talking together, more like a salon discussion than a lecture series or scheduled and regimented debate.
Do I think it rude for you to ask? Of course not! I might think it rather suspect if you were to come into an established, well-functioning place with a deep and abiding history of its own, and then try to change it just to suit yourself, but I don't think that is what you are doing in this case. You seem to be sorting out how this place works on its own and trying to fit yourself in as a productive and pleasant member. That's cool.
Thank you for the kind words about me that you've passed on. I can only hope that the bulk of words out there about me favor the good rather than the bad.
------------
Edited to add: And as our ever-vigilant PJ has emailed me my pasword, I shall re-enter under my old moniker. *smile
Posted by Papa Janitor (Member # 7795) on :
Well, it was an oblique and stealthy request, but still a request, né?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
No way! More of a musing, although I am touched by your thoughtfulness.
I know you've had a lot on your plate lately (which reminds me to send you the second part of a PM), and I hate to make problems for you to solve. And, as always, there is a way to relish the change, even if it wasn't my preference. Every time I though, "Ah, right, have to use the new name," I'd think of you and MamaSquirrel and the rest of the clan, and that was nice. I enjoyed that part.
Now as I make the transition back, I'll have the same effect to anticipate. Change is good!
(Thank you, Moose.)
Posted by MommaMuse (Member # 9659) on :
Perhaps I have been too touchy. I have lived in the same place all my life, and from what my husband tells me, things are different everywhere else, as far as the way strangers act toward one another. I did not mean to offend by implying that anyone is being rude or anything, and after re-reading my posts on the matter, I can see how my response was made in a moment of pique. I do apologize. I took this entirely too personally, and though my feelings on the matter haven't changed, I can see that most of the misundrstanding has been due to differing viewpoints.
So, I will stick to my original purpose in joining this forum, and go back to the writer's workshop where I really should be! LOL
Happy posting!
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Wait a second... Does that mean you're leaving just because someone misinterpreted your sentiment behind a post? If that's it - don't leave!!
Yeah - I realize if I'm right you might not read this. I still think that's a silly reason to go...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:I can't recall a time when OSC himself has ever been attacked on his website by anyone except a newbie who'd just created an account for the express purpose of coming here and complaining about his position on, say, homosexual marriage.
It is obvious to me that not everybody shares the same standard for what constitutes an attack on OSC.
Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
Well, thanks Mr. Porteiro Head for repeating the above quote. I had missed it the first time so had to look back and see who said it. When I saw who it was I nearly fell off my chair laughing. The world truly IS an amazing place and people's understanding of themselves and other people will never cease to amaze me.
And thanks to MammaMuse for her kind motives in starting this thread.
![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
I hope that didn't sound hostile, I'm just sayin'. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)