Hatrack River Forum: Writers' Workshop

This is topic Writers' Workshop in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.hatrack.com/ubb/main/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004406

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

I guess this is more a question about OSC than anything else:

Why is that forum limited to people over the age of eighteen?

Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :

There was once a Young Writers' Workshop for people under eighteen...

Alas, it was closed, due to the conduct of some of its members. And now I have to wait a couple years to join the WW.

Posted by Dr Strangelove (Member # 8331) on :

nyah nyah, I'm 18. [Big Grin]

. Not that I've joined it, but I do intend to.

Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :

It's not like there's anyone who can tell if you're 18 or not, as long as you act like you could be.

The young writers workshop was a lot of fun, though. [Smile]

I haven't joined the regular one...it's too civilized!

Posted by Dav (Member # 8217) on :

Here's an earlier thread which refers to this issue:
http://www.hatrack.com/cgi-bin/ubbmain/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003631;p=0&r=nfx#000000

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

Dav, thank you.

"It's not like there's anyone who can tell if you're 18 or not, as long as you act like you could be."

True, but I choose to be honest and would have to change my user name in order to even pretend to be over eighteen.

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

I see Mr Card's reasons and they have the validity he claims. I do dispute the idea that this limited validity is useful for making any decisions at all. Generalizations are always dangerous even when entirely true, because we so often use them in the specific, where they have no use. The fact that Puerto Ricans score, on average, the lowest on standardized of any ethnic group in the U.S., while true, is of no use when dealing with a Puerto Rican student. I am generally opposed to all rules for any organization based on generalizations. I do not, however, stand so firmly oposed as to be willing to create a great deal of strife over this issue in particular.

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

Well, show me Puerto Ricans that get over it in a few years and I'll join you in your stand.

I don't know if I should mention it, but you need a different login over there anyhow. I use the same name, but it's a different board and a different password.

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

"I don't know if I should mention it, but you need a different login over there anyhow. I use the same name, but it's a different board and a different password."

I am neither dishonest enough to lie by changing my name with the intent to decievenor naïve enough to think that I should not be recognized by cross-posters.

Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :

quote:
I see Mr Card's reasons and they have the validity he claims. I do dispute the idea that this limited validity is useful for making any decisions at all. Generalizations are always dangerous even when entirely true, because we so often use them in the specific, where they have no use. The fact that Puerto Ricans score, on average, the lowest on standardized of any ethnic group in the U.S., while true, is of no use when dealing with a Puerto Rican student. I am generally opposed to all rules for any organization based on generalizations. I do not, however, stand so firmly oposed as to be willing to create a great deal of strife over this issue in particular.

That's what I figure. He might not have a "we reserve the right to deny access to the writer's workshop on any grounds whatsoever, at our discretion" (or he might, I haven't looked into it), but it's sorta implied by the fact that he's being generous enough to supply the workshop. So, it may not be the best, most nondiscriminatory policy in the world, but...his choice.
Score one for honesty by Pelegius, though! And yeah, you'd probably be recognized. [Wink]

Not a bad thing, I hasten to add, but your writing style is pretty unique.

Posted by Soara (Member # 6729) on :

You'll have a birthday soon anyhow, right?

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

Soara, not really: July 27, 2007 is, I guess, fairly soon in the great scheme of things but is still almost a year away.

Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

A year seems a lot longer when you're 17 than when you're 32, believe me. [Smile]

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

We went through quite a streak of discussing rape, murder, and what constitutes excessive violence over there not long ago. I'm not sure I'm old enough for that forum. Come to think of it, I don't think "what about the Bible" was protested in any of those threads.

Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :

Tee-hee.
Pelegius is 4 days older than me.
I can't wait to be 18.

[ August 26, 2006, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Flaming Toad on a Stick ]

Posted by Gwen (Member # 9551) on :

quote:
We went through quite a streak of discussing rape, murder, and what constitutes excessive violence over there not long ago. I'm not sure I'm old enough for that forum.

I think that someone who has that reaction is readier than someone who thinks "oooh, cooool," at least.

Posted by Pelegius (Member # 7868) on :

"We went through quite a streak of discussing rape, murder, and what constitutes excessive violence over there not long ago. I'm not sure I'm old enough for that forum. Come to think of it, I don't think "what about the Bible" was protested in any of those threads."

You raise a good point in that those topics were all part of my religion class, or any history class. I think they need to be discussed, in order to better understand what humanity is capable of doing, just as great art needs to be discussed for the same reason. We have the greatest power of any living creature known, not even the microbes which threaten our lives can compete; we need to acknowledge that we created neither live nor the Earth, but we have the power to either enrich or destroy both.

At seventeen I cannot pretend to understand humanity, nor, I am certain, shall I be able to at ninety, but I do not think myself too young to think about it at seventeen, nor shall I consider myself too old to think about it at ninety.

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

Wow, I didn't know you were a minor Flaming Toad. I feel bad about all those dreams I had about you now [Wink]

<---This means I am kidding!!!

Posted by Flaming Toad on a Stick (Member # 9302) on :

quote:
Originally posted by pooka:
Wow, I didn't know you were a minor Flaming Toad. I feel bad about all those dreams I had about you now <---This means I am kidding!!!

I was trying to think of some naughty Arabic words, but it's 1:09 A.M., and I'm too tired to think of anything witty.
Ana b'hibik, ya albi.
[Wink]

Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pelegius:
I see Mr Card's reasons and they have the validity he claims. I do dispute the idea that this limited validity is useful for making any decisions at all. Generalizations are always dangerous even when entirely true, because we so often use them in the specific, where they have no use. ... I am generally opposed to all rules for any organization based on generalizations. I do not, however, stand so firmly oposed as to be willing to create a great deal of strife over this issue in particular.

...this is the forum of the guy who invented Demosthenes and Locke. [Evil Laugh]

Okay, devil's advocate there. That being said, I'm astonished at the amount of superintelligent, mature, pleasantly non-kid-like kids I've encountered on the internet. And pleasantly surprised, of course. If I'd had the internet more freely accessible to me when I was your age, I wouldn't have felt like such an uberdork because I could have met other young'uns like myself.

Viva la interwebs!

Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :

I've had a lot of experience with young writers and older ones. Younger ones are usually not able to deal with professional-level, rigorous criticism; adult writers are wasting their time to settle for anything less. The fact that there are some young writers who are ready earlier than most, and some adult writers who are NEVER ready for it, doesn't change the fact that we avoid a host of problems, and avoid causing much damage to fragile young writers, by simply closing the door to the ones that are too young.

A good rule of thumb is: If they can't tell from the way you write and critique that you're under 18, you're probably old enough for the forum.

Another good rule is: If you lie and say you're 18 when you're not, then you're a liar, and when you're found out, you've lost a degree of trust. But ... like people who lie about their age to join the military, if you pulled your weight, the lie is usually forgiven instantly.