Who do you like more, Ender Wiggen or Bean? Who do you think made more progress in life? Who do you think was the better person?
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Theresa.
Posted by Cabra (Member # 9581) on :
Lanik Mueller
Posted by B34N (Member # 9597) on :
It's kind of a tough question considering hte two characters are so different and did so much with their lives but I kind of favor bean.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Well... I've got to say first off I've only read the 'Ender Series' and the first of the Shadow books.
That being said... I don't like either more. I dig them both for their own reasons. Ender left a family that loved him, regardless of the Peter struggle, to go to a place he didn't even seem (to me) sure he wanted to go. Bean left a place where he was fighting for his next day for a place he was simply fighting for his standings.
As I said - I've only read book one of the 'Shadow Series', so I honestly don't know where Bean ended up. As of the end of the two first books, I say they both went pretty far.
Which is the better person... they're both good with a little bit of bad mixed in, just like the rest of us "real" people. You take what you get and make of it what you may. I think Ender going from hugs and kisses and Bean going from fights and food-sharing to whatever it is that OSC created in the battle school is significant for both. I'm sure that both characters had to battle their own demons to get where they got. I see them in the same light with a different shade.
Sorry if you were looking for responses from people who'd read all of both 'series'... I was intrigued, though, and wanted to let my thoughts fly as I typed.
edit to say: i guess hatrack got to me... i typed osc i/o orson scott card... MAN!!!
Posted by RunningBear (Member # 8477) on :
bean was the better person, ender the better soul.
bean understood people. ender understood the rest.
bean would die for the world. ender did die for love.
I dont know.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Bean, no question.
Posted by mandasarah (Member # 9714) on :
As much as I adore and sympathize with LittleBoyEnder, I find AdultEnder eminently smackable. I'm not sure why, but there it is.
Bean (in my humble opinion) is much more relatable. More human. Go figure.
Posted by cagreat1 (Member # 8511) on :
I prefer bean over ender.
Personally I think Ender was a great person, and a great guy, but like the final book says, Ender always had the xenocide of the buggers on his mind. He was too depressing most of the time because of this. Ender also never fully understood life in my opinion. He understood others, but he never understood himself. Bean on the other hand was very dynamic throughout his entire series. He understood what it ment to be human. He understood what it means to be alive in my opinion.
Posted by Cabra (Member # 9581) on :
In all seriousness this time, with Bean I always felt an underlying lack of faith in humanity. Plus he always saw himself as superior. Ender went through an entire lifetime of humility, and even if he turned into a depressed, broken man, the fact that his heart was focused on others rather than on himself made him infinitely more likeable imho.
Not that I didn't enjoy the Bean novels nearly as much as the Ender novels, but Bean never seemed like a person I would like to hang out with. He is too cold and calculating, whereas Ender is the complete opposite.
As far as who accomplished more in their lifetime I don't think there can be any doubt. Bean may have helped pave the shape of the world in the few short years he had on Earth, but Ender saved three separate sentient species from destruction, spoke for countless dead, and made his mark as both the most hated and most loved and respected figure in history.
Posted by VetaMega (Member # 8366) on :
I completely related to Ender....Bean I found annoying and inhaman. I even like Peter. Why? Because he never stopped to think about people and the way they really are. Everything he did was about him him him and those importent to him. He ddin't seem likable.
Ender on the other hand...he cared for so many people and everyone felt attacted to him...he actually found a mission in life..
I don't know; I've read both series....I find Ender better in all regards. He seems more human.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
I'm with you, VetaMega, I like Ender more because he seemed more human to me. Smart guy thrown into horrible circumstances. Whereas Bean felt stranger; it was harder for me to understand some of the choices Bean made. I also like Ender's strength better--understanding and loving people. That's just cool.
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
I'm an Ender person.
I identified with Ender as a child before Bean had his own books.
Posted by Karmen (Member # 9666) on :
I originaly identified with Ender, but fell hard for Bean when I discovered the Shadow series. Like you said cagreat1, Ender is kinda depressing. But my all time favorite character is Petra. If I can't be a witch, couldn't I at least be like Petra?
I'm trying to convince my mom to name my soon to be sibling Faust Julian, who would of course be known as Julian. ( Faust is a family name, we're Italian, not wierd.)My main selling point was that Julian Delphiki killed the socipath Achilles. My family has recently had a bit of a brush with a male socipath, so us four females(mom+ 3daughters) are very worried it'll be a boy. We don't trust and/or like being by them; they're scarry. So naming it after such a person as Bean seems appropriate. Plus the kid's probly gonna be at least 6'5" when full grown.
And no, Andrew does not go well with the last name, no matter how much we like it.
Posted by Libbie (Member # 9529) on :
Peter Wiggin owns everybody.
PETER FOR HEGEMON IN 2008!!
Posted by Ecthalion (Member # 8825) on :
i agree wiht libby. Peter in all his forms across the series was my favorite character.
i didnt like bean as a kid, and didnt like ender as an adult.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
I far prefer Ender. I think he was more intuitive and able to understand people and social situations far better than Bean ever could.
Also, I would just rather hang out with Ender. He was funny, likable, told good stories and led an interesting life. Hanging out with Bean would get tiresome. He's always complaining about poor ol' himself and how sad it is to lead his life and have his problems. Boo-freakin'-hoo. Combine that with the endless military stories and combative style of speaking and I wouldn't have been able to stay in the same room with him for five minutes.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I always liked Graff.
Posted by IComeAnon87 (Member # 9627) on :
I enjoyed reading Bean more and he's my favorite character but it's tough for me to say who's a better person. I related more to Bean because I think logically like that but Ender always seemed more human just cause he could really understand everyone.
Posted by Quimby2999 (Member # 7044) on :
I really can't decide.
But I suppose I think Bean was more human in many ways.
VetaMega said: Everything he did was about him him him and those importent to him.
Well, yes, but that's how real people act. While we all do charitable acts once in a while most of what we do is for our own sakes and those we care most about.
Ender on the other hand was too much of a martyr to be relatable. Which is a little strange considering Bean is the "Cold, Calculating" one.
But one theme that I think is consistent in both stories is they seemed to become something outside of their nature or what anyone would've suspected when they were young.
Kind and charismatic Ender became the Xenocide. While cold calculating little Bean became a Giant and even found love and had a family.
Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
Ender. Hands down.
Posted by VetaMega (Member # 8366) on :
THe wiggen family dealt and handled people...they all believed in discovering new things and improving the future.
Bean dealt with strategy and the handling of his own problems.
Bean is really a follower while Ender is a leader. They are both very smart. Ender is the person we all aspire to be, Bean is the person inside of us whom we will never admit to having.
Posted by striplingrz (Member # 9770) on :
I'd say Ender easily for me. I connected to the depth of his character much more than Bean. Bean was cool, especially as a kid. But as he grew older, his situations and how he dealt with them were unrelated to me. Ender on the other hand was a much more relateable character in my opinion. LOL, maybe its because we didn't get a lot of insight into his teen years. *shrug* I don't know.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
I think Bean and Ender are really too different to compare. Besides, it's like asking which of your two best friends you like the most! Also, it's not fair to compare Ender as an adult to Bean as an "adult" since bean wasn't even twenty yet when he left earth, where as Ender was over thirty when we pick up with him again. That's a pretty big gap. The best comparisson would be, say, Ender at the VERY end of Ender's Game to Bean in the shadow series, but there again we have about ten pages of Ender and what, a thousand of Bean. All that being said though, I think if I look at my son and decide which one I'd rather have him favor, it'd be Ender.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I liked Ender a bit better... Don't really know why. He was so compassionate and understanding towards people, even the ones he accidently killed. Plus he carried that on his shoulders even though it positively wasn't his fault. Plus he could see the good even in Nouvina, who annoyed me. But, Bean is powerful and clever. He managed to survive even as a baby. Ender is the compassionate one, Bean is the strong and scientific one who bucked the system and refused to play the game, refused to be a pawn. That is admirable.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
I can't stand Bean or any of those Shadow books. Shouldn't have been written.
Posted by DaisyMae (Member # 9722) on :
Oh, come now, stihl. That's a bit harsh. I'm afraid you've got a whole slew of people who disagree.
I think Ender's story is more tragic. The possiblity of what he might have become on his own sort of nags at the corner of your mind. He was used as a tool in his maleable years and it shaped where he would go and who he would become. I think his character is more complex.
I like Bean too, though.
Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
I cannot say I am a big fan of the Bean books, but that was because of some of the lecturing... There was some on the Ender story, but not as much as in the Bean story, and there was one part that annoyed me the most.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
quote:Originally posted by DaisyMae: Oh, come now, stihl. That's a bit harsh. I'm afraid you've got a whole slew of people who disagree.
That's fine with me. Doesn't me I'm wrong or that they are right. I just can't stand those stories. IMO, it cheapens the originals.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Well, I think that is an unfair thing to say since it was ALL something Card wanted written. It is hard to cheapen something when it's only part of the story.
Posted by Dark as night (Member # 9577) on :
Lyrhawn, I can't say I've always liked Graff, because I don't think you can love child Ender and not feel some contempt for the adults who "destroyed" his childhood and forced him into this depressed state that's been discussed above. However, many years passed since I first read "Ender's Game" and with age and understanding I've grown to appreciate Graff and even Rackham a lot more. After reading "The First Meetings" I realized that Graff's been there for ALL of it, starting with setting up John Paul and Theresa, ending with sending Bean and the rest of the jeesh out to space. His magnitude of vision and incredible responsibility for the fate of the world is definitely worth noting.
I also like Peter. His character is much more complex and intriguing than originally meets the eye. At first you want to hate him, but then you just want to understand him. And in the end of the Shadow of the Giant, I actually admired him.
As for Bean vs. Ender, I'm not sure they really can be adequately compared, like DDDaysh said.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I think I got more personally emotionally involved with Bean when reading that series than I did with Ender. I have no idea why -- whether there was something about him I related to better than Ender, or maybe in the way OSC wrote both characters. Or it could have just been the time of my life that I read the Bean series (much later than when I read the Ender series) I was at a more emotional state and willing to immerse myself into the character.
So at this time, I would have to say Bean. But if I were to go back and re-read both series, I would probably like whichever I was reading at the time
:wink:
Posted by Stone_Wolf_ (Member # 8299) on :
I liked Ender better, although as Bean became the man he did, I grew to love him as well. My love for Ender runs too deep, he is the original, he is -the- character.
How Ender ended up I also find interesting. I've heard it said that you don't grow up until you know real regret. From Ender, I felt that. He did something to change and fix his "mistakes" and got to choose a life for himself.
As to which character made more progress in life, I can not say, as Shadows in Flight is not yet out, and so we don't know the full scope of Bean's life.
As to which was a better person, they were both good people, who loved their wives and children and personally took a hand in saving humanity. Both had their faults, both had their missteps.