I know OSC is in the process of, if not writing then, planning to continue the story of Bean's babies as they travel through space.
But there is unfinished business that is very very important to me. I need you to finish the story of Bean. I need to experience Bean's death.
The conclusion of 'Shadow Puppet' left me very empty. I had delayed reading that last book because I didn't think I could face Bean dying. Eventually curiousity got the better of me, and I read it. It was a good story, but it left the story of Bean unfinished. Bean was neither dead or alive, he was simply gone, and 'simply gone' is not good enough for a character that I have come to care about so much.
I need a conclusion, I need resolution, I need closure. Bean can't simply be gone when the next book begins, I need to experience him dying even if it is just in a narative by his kids. I need to know, at least in summary form, the story of Bean and his kids as that last few years of Bean's life wound down.
So, please when you finally write the story of the Beanie Babies, please include a chapter on Bean himself. His story is a story that deserves to be told, and so far it has been told very well, but it isn't finished, and I need it to be.
Just one fan of OSC and Bean, passing his wants and needs along.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
My theory is that OSC likes Bean too much to really kill him. He was supposed to die at the end of three of the books so far (IIRC) but we just can't quite get there.
Posted by stihl1 (Member # 1562) on :
I never got into Beanie Babies. Seemed like an old lady thing to me.
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
Just finished Shadoe of a Giant. How do you know there will be another book in the series?
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
Shadow, of course.
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
Do you know when will this book be published? I'm so anxious!!! I had to get up very early for work this morning, but still read into the night in order to finish the book and got only two hours of sleep. I share all of the needs raised in this forum with regard to the desperate need for completions of this great chapter of these magnificent series.
Posted by Uindy (Member # 9743) on :
For me Shadow of the Giant was really good up until the end. Like Blue Wizard I needed closure. I hope the next book raps the story up. I need to know what happnes to Bean.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
Whereas I hope the book introduces a plethora of needlessly complicated open-ended plot points while at the same time only paying vague lip service to all of the books and characters that came before it.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
There is book in the planning that tells the story of Ender's earlier life after he and Valentine leave the colony world. In this book, Ender meets the child whose mother presumes the child to be the son of Achilles, but who is in fact, Bean's son. Tentatively titled 'Ender in Exile'.
The other book in planning is the story of Bean's children's story intersecting with the later world of Ender, though I suspect Ender will be gone. So, the Beanie Baby story will likely be 'New!Peter meets the Beanie Babies'.
In another thread here in the group, OSC asked us to help him with potential titles for these books.
I believe the Beanie Baby story is tentatively titled 'Shadows in Flight'.
So, these books are coming eventually, though they are probably not written yet, and are no where near ready for publication.
The issue of Bean and his fate, as you can see, is very important to me. Someone I love, has disappeared from the earth, disappeared as of the last 'Shadow' book from time and space. I need his story to end. I need to know, understand, and grieve for his final destiny.
Again, the whole story doesn't have to be woven around Bean. The story is really about his hyper-genius kids, and an interesting story I'm sure it will be. But I need resolution regarding Bean. I need some sense of what his life was like, having his kids with him and knowing he would soon die. Knowing that he had to have them ready to run the ship on their own when he was gone. Knowing that they would live isolated lonely lives with only each other for company. Knowing that all too soon they too would die. That must have been an emotionally painful struggle for him, and his death must have been equally painful looking back on what he left behind on earth, and what he was leaving behind on the starship.
I need that, I need to know. Without it, the Bean story can never be complete.
As a tangent, I can't believe that Bean and later just his kids traveled in complete isolation. At some point they had to update their information datebase. At some point they needed more supplies. By the time these events occurred, it was likely that Bean was confined to the ship, unable to withstand the strains of gravity. That means he had to send his kids down alone to negotiate in what I perceive to be a hostile world. A world that wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of some extremely rich kids.
I do believe, though I certainly can't prove, that Jane was in contact with Bean and was helping him, though certainly not at the same level that she was in contact and assisting Ender.
I also ponder whether the Beanie Babies and Bean developed some degree of telepathic communication that allowed the Kids and Bean to be in constant contact with each other while the kids wandered certain planets negotiating for fresh supplies. Seem like a whole raft of adventure could come from their lives in space.
Sorry to ramble. The main point is that I need Bean's story resolved. If he is dead, then let him die, and let his story finally be finished.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
My guess is that Shadows in Flight will open with Bean already dead.
Assuming it ever gets written.
That's a fair assumption, since the Ender books are typically the best-selling ones. But OSC also has Ender in Exile, Battleschool Christmas, the Mazer standalone novel, the last Alvin Maker book, another Women in Genesis book, the possible Pastwatch prequel, the sequel to the book with the really smart monkey, and various plays and short stories to write.
And those are just off the top of my head.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
Wait... The Crystal City isn't the last Alvin book?
Posted by happysmiley (Member # 9703) on :
Wrong series, dragon slayer. They're talking about the Ender's Game books. Pretty sure there's not a Bean in the Alvin books.
I 'm glad that we get to hear more about the babies, I can't wait to read the next book.
Posted by Charistay (Member # 10424) on :
I first read Ender's Game in 5th grade, when I was 10. (Yes, I do realize that is young, but hey, it was a good book, and I was advanced for my age.)
Since then, I've read Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Giant, Shadow Puppets, and am currently reading Shadow of the Hegemon.
I LOVE THE BEAN SERIES. Even more so than the Ender series, but I haven't read that. I loved Ender's Shadow more than Ender's Game and was in absolute adoration.
I am now 12 years old -- yes, I know. Young. Still. That's good, neh?
I would really love to read about Bean's death. As one of his worship-- fans, it is important to me. I can't wait until the next book. But I still have Shadow of the Hegemon to finish.
(And who knows? Maybe someday I'll get around to the Ender books.)
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
El JT de Spang My guess is that Shadows in Flight will open with Bean already dead.
Yes, that is very probably right, but that doesn't mean his children can't tell interested parties the story of the last part of Bean's life.
Certainly, if the Beanie Babies meet New!Peter, he is going to be interested in what happened. Also, Valentine might also meet Bean's kids, and she would certainly know about Bean, and would certainly be interested in his story. Especially since she helped write original!Peter's biography which certainly involved a lot of help from Bean. (Actually, Ender wrote it, but Valentine helped.)
I suspect that the Biologistas of Lusitania with the help of a trip Outside can create a new gene that will cure Bean's kids they same way they cured the people of the World of the Path. Once that is done, the door is opened to a lifetime of adventure.
Personally, I would like to here the story of Bean and the Babies as they travel, and as the stopped at new worlds briefly, even if it was only a short story.
Bean is a loose thread hanging, and I need it resolved; that's all I'm saying.
To Charistay-
The continuation of the Ender story takes place 3,000 years in the future. Ender and Valentine are adults then; about 30 I'd say. It is an interesting read, but because it is so detached from the original story, it doesn't hold the connection and continuity that the Shadow series does.
Still, it is a great story, or series of stories. It involves new worlds and new species and new dilemmas. It is at once a sad story and a happy one. There is a lot of struggle in it, much as Ender struggled in Enders Game. I really like both series and often go back and re-read them. Each series appeals to me, but for very different reasons.
Mainly, if you care about the characters, then you want to know what happened to them. Do they find love? Do they find purpose? Do they remain heroes or fade into obscurity? Inquiring minds need to know.
Just a few thoughts.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Yes, that is very probably right, but that doesn't mean his children can't tell interested parties the story of the last part of Bean's life.
I agree. I just wouldn't hold your breath for it. I seem to remember, somewhere in the cobwebs that are my long-term memory, that OSC said he probably won't be telling the story of Bean's death because that story doesn't interest him.
But I may be wrong.
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: Wait... The Crystal City isn't the last Alvin book?
Is Alvin still alive? Then, no. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
It's funny because it's true.
Posted by Charistay (Member # 10424) on :
BlueWizard:
Thank you for your opinion and information.
The (just) Ender series seems rather intriguing, though yes, I admit that I like how the Bean series is so connected.
Nevertheless, I am still interested in Ender and Valentine's lives, so I will go ahead and see if I can pick up a book at the library anytime soon.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
To Charistay
I noticed, unless you made a mistake in your post above, that you did not read the 'Shadow' series in order. I would recommend reading the continuation of the 'Ender' series in the correct order. It is a complex story; actually stories within stories.
I personally really enjoyed the secondary story of Master Han, Qing-joa, Si Wang-mu, and the people of Path. Which will make no sense until you read the series. I especially like 'The God Whispers of Han Qing-jao'. Again, it will make sense after you read the second and third book. Keep in mind that all this is related to a secondary plot. It is not central to Ender and Valentine's personal story.
My only criticism is that in a few places O.S.Card gets repetitive. Essentially telling us in detail what he has already told us before. It is usually some minor element of the story. Still I was so interested in the greater story, that these minor repetitions didn't slow me down at all.
It starts out as a seemly simple story, but as it goes on, it gets very complex. I do highly recommend it to anyone who read and cared about 'Enders Game'.
The correct order of the stories is -
1.) Enders Game 2.) Speaker for the Dead 3.) Xenocide 4.) Children of the Mind
As simply as the story starts, you will not believe the complex multi-layered ride it will take you on. And it will certainly leave you wanting more,and fortunately and eventually, there will be more.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
Does Bean have to die? Isn't it possible that he and his children travel to Lusitania at the end of "Children of the Mind"'s plot, and there receive the cure they need? Isn't it possible that they encounter New!Peter and Si Wang-Mu and then be able to use all of Jane's capabilities? Isn't it possible that they meet Miro and Val and be able to contact the Descoladores and find a cure there and then?
In another matter, does anyone remember New!Peter's visions of the Old!Peter's death? I think there is a chapter in "Xenocide" which referrs to it. can anyone remind me?
Posted by Charistay (Member # 10424) on :
Steve:
I always did get Shadow of the Giant and Shadow of the Hegemon mixed up. Thank you for your concern, I did, in fact, read it correctly with Shadow of the Hegemon first and then Shadow Puppets with Shadow of the Giant following. I am sort of obsessed with this sort of thing. I NEED to read it in chronological order to fully enjoy it.
I just (as in 2 minutes ago) finished Shadow of the Giant and the ending made me smile AND want to cry. That Peter scene was brilliant.
And it made me want to read the Ender series.
Which is good.
-- Charistay, or simpler, Christi
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sagyp: Does Bean have to die? Isn't it possible that he and his children travel to Lusitania at the end of "Children of the Mind"'s plot, and there receive the cure they need? Isn't it possible that they encounter New!Peter and Si Wang-Mu and then be able to use all of Jane's capabilities? Isn't it possible that they meet Miro and Val and be able to contact the Descoladores and find a cure there and then?
I think I'm just going to quote this discussion from when SotG came out, when OSC talked about this topic in a Barnes and Noble online board, because I know a lot of people didn't get to participate or don't remember it. But do keep in mind that this is an older quote. So here you are:
quote:Originally posted by Dustin and OSC in a B&N discussion forum: Subject: Re: Re: Jane and Bean (Message #1286755) Area: Discuss the Ending & More From: Dustin Date: Sunday, 10-Apr-2005 9:38 PM
What if Bean travelled FTL so long that he met up with Ender during or after Children of the Mind, and Ender (and Jane) took him "outside" and fixed his defect. Hmmm...
Subject: I thought of that ... (Message #1298202) Area: Discuss the Ending & More From: Orson Date: Monday, 25-Apr-2005 3:31 AM
I thought of that too, and decided it would violate the rules I already set up, and it would feel even to me too much like pandering to the audience instead of sticking to the integrity of the story. I also thought of having them run across a bottle out in space, and when they pop the cork, out comes a genie and ... Bean is GOING TO DIE. I didn't lie about that. The most we'll see of him is a brief prologue - or at least that's my guess right now.
It's possible for series characters to linger so long that they become dull. Basically, if I'm not interested anymore, I have to move on. And if the character comes up against that wall called "death," there's not much I can do about it, without fakery. I think it's safe to say that theory is quite dead.
It does not make a book or series BETTER for everything to connect to everything else. That only makes it feel like the whole thing takes place in Delaware. You need to have messiness, things that seem to be part of another story, questions that are never answered. Not a LOT of questions like that, but enough to be aware that there's a much larger world than you can possibly see in one novel.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
I think Bean's death is inevitable. Bean's days were already number. Living in Earths gravity was already starting to affect him. On earth, he maybe had 2 to 4 years at the most, and the last of those year would not have been pleasant.
Weightless, in space, he might have been able to squeeze 4 to 6 years out of his life. If accommodations could have been made to assist him, those last years could have been reasonably productive. Four to six years at near light speed is many many many decades of earth time, but is it enough for the Beanie Babies to intersect with Ender's later life?
Keep in mind, that Ender was about 30 when his later life started (Speaker for the Dead) and near the end of the story I'm guessing he is about, what, 60 or so? So, that is a lot of time; over 3,000 earth years. I don't think Bean could have survived in space for that long even with near light speed time dilation.
So, certainly Bean is going to be dead. The question is whether I will directly or, more likely, indirectly get to experience his death. To some extent, I agree with O.S.Card, Bean's story has been told to near completion. There is nothing left to tell but his death, and I want to make sure that I don't miss that because that is an ending to a very good story that I NEED TO HEAR.
For what it's worth.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Four to six years at near light speed is many many many decades of earth time, but is it enough for the Beanie Babies to intersect with Ender's later life?
What is it with the insistence that every character from every timeline meet up with every other character?
I couldn't agree more with OSC that it's a Good Thing to have some messiness; some loose ends.
It made me want to through the paperback across the room when I realized Asimov intended to tie all his disparate universes into a single neat ball. See also, King, Stephen.
Crash, did you save a lot of that B&N discussion? I'd love to read it (have I asked you this before?).
Posted by Takmo (Member # 10439) on :
I like Bean's story as it is. Perhaps I'm just a coward, but Bean's such a great character that I'm not sure I can bear closure. I know that Bean is going to die; that he will, in all probability, be dead by the next book, but I'd rather try to sense a vague concept of his ending journey and know enough that his prime is over. There's the saying: "Get out while you're ahead."
Perhaps I don't have as much faith as I should in OSC's writing abilities. Perhaps I'm afraid that the closure will let down my expectations. I hope not.
I'm sure I can deal with it, one way or another.
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
I didn't know OSC has already declared that Bean will die. Thanks for letting me in on that. I think that somewhere deep inside I always wanted that Bean's thought of himself dying young will be contradicted by reality. I thought that OSC is creating the required suspense in order for the happy end of Bean's life to be eagerly anticipated. I have not once imagined that he will kill Bean. This truly is sad. It seems that OSC is getting more similar to George R.R. Martin in the sense of killing lead charachters. However, GRRM's charachters (who have died so far), in my opinion, never got to be so lovable as Ender or Bean, and never created such empathy and identification.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
quote:It seems that OSC is getting more similar to George R.R. Martin in the sense of killing lead charachters.
You're kidding, right? OSC always ends a series by killing his protagonist; that's how you know the series is over. In A Song of Ice and Fire, Martin hasn't killed the main protagonist yet; he just did a bit of a fake-out in the first book by killing someone you thought was the protagonist. If ASOIAF ends with Dany and Jon Snow's deaths, then you have a point. *grin*
Posted by Dog Walker (Member # 8301) on :
Though i hate to see characters that I've come to love die, it does bring beautiful closure to the life story of the character. I think most effective series end with the protagonist dieing. I have love-hate feelings towards the emotions that are provoked with your fav. character's death.
I don't like the lack of closer to Bean's story and I want to be there as he breaths his last breath.
(I just noticed this may make me sound like a E.A. Poe type, which is not the case. I enjoy sunrises and blue skies just as much as the next guy). Posted by kristina msp (Member # 10359) on :
I think I could deal with Bean's death if I knew that the babies continued on to do ...something atleast. I have to admit that for a while I wondered what it would be like if you took a Worthing spin on Bean's babies. Would it be interesting if the kids actually started a planet of giants? Compared to the Blue-eyed ones, would a planet of giants be boring??
I have a question. Is there any chance that traces of Bean's altered genes were passed on to his "normal" kids?....could any form of the gene be passed along, and change as it goes? (Again, thinking about Worthing).
I have also wondered this...what if Bean's kids found thier own cure (or a form of treatment) while in flight? Is it possible in any way?? And where would they go from there if they did?
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
Tom: Maybe I'm not so familiar with OSC's other series, but with regard to the Ender series and the Shadow series, then your entry is not entirely correct, in my opinion. At the end of Children of the Mind, Ender's body dies, but his Aiwa lingers. Ender himself feels its time for him to go, and that he has outlived the normal life span. In objective terms as well, Ender had lived up to an old age (not as old as one would wish to, but still), and, of course, had a very full life layered with many acheivements. In contracst, Eddard Stark dies an unjust death, due to his own daughter's big mouth, leaving all of his plans unrealized and his family exposed to his enemies, virtually undefended. Rob Stark dies at a young age, and not so nicely, only because he was honorable enough to get married. While none of them comes close to Ender, they are still very likable charachters which you can (and do) relate to. Bean is more like Eddard and Rob than like Ender, since his death is expected so early in life, while not a fragment of his potential is exhausted. Moreover, Bean is so much more likable than Eddard or Rob, that in this since OSC creates an even worse situation than GRRM. And for all we know, GRRM is always likely to kill Jon or Sam or Aria, which he has already blinded.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
Keep in mind that I am not asking for half or a third or even a quarter of the book to be dedicated to Bean's life and death. Just a reasonable summary by his children to account for Bean's actions and explain what his life was like as he neared death. I don't expect a heroic death with laser guns blazing, just a noble proud selfless life and death.
Though I spoke previously of the Beanie Babies life intersecting with Ender's life, of course, I was referring, more or less, to the Enderverse and not to Ender personally; Ender, as we knew him, is gone. So, we already know Ender himself will not literally meet the Beanie Babies, but there is a reasonable chance that the Beanie Babies could meet Valentine and/or New!Peter, and we know there are ways they could help each other.
I further suspect Jane will come into the picture relative to the Beanie Babies. I'm still inclined to think that Jane has been helping Bean and his kids all along, but in a very minor way. Certainly not on the level she is connected to Ender, but on a smaller but none the less very real level.
Straying from the central topic, I do firmly believe in some Bean/Jane connection. In the Shadow series when the financial aspect of Jane is first developed, Graff says that Jane can manage Bean's money, and Bean makes a conditional agreement to that. Further, Graff says that the financial program will also manage the International Fleets money to keep their financing as removed from earth politics as possible. I suspect all the Battle School students in Ender's group were faced with the same problems, so I suspect Graff expanded Jane's financial management to include them. This is all very minor stuff for Jane, she could do simple financial management in the background without even a second thought.
However, at some point I suspect Jane became aware that Bean had a real need of her help, beyond the needs of other Battle Schoolers, so in small and subtle ways she stepped in to help. Of course, that is about 98% speculation on my part.
Just passing it along.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by cagreat1 (Member # 8511) on :
i thought in previous discussions that bean's death was going to be discussed in the first chapter or two of this new book. But personally, i like the idea of not knowing what happens to bean. It's kinda like your friend that moves away. you keep in touch for a little while but after time you fade away. I do like that. I have to admit bean is one of my favorite literary characters, and to find out how he died would be nice closer, but it's been so long now (since it's been a few years since i read the last book...such a long time personally), it would be like opening an old wound.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Crash, did you save a lot of that B&N discussion? I'd love to read it (have I asked you this before?).
I think you have asked me before! Well, yes, but it was all saved originally in .txt files. This means the formatting of the class is messed up and jumbled quite a lot, and the "sub-topics" that you could expand in the original class aren't separated any more. But it's certainly readable, and I've tried to clear the excess out of a couple of them. I'm working on Word documents that I can format for easier reading. If you'd like, I can email you the files, JT, or if anyone else has a suggestion for me on how to share them with others, it's welcome.
[ May 13, 2007, 01:15 AM: Message edited by: CRash ]
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I would like.
Email it to the 2nd and 4th parts of my username (concatenated) at gmail dot com. Or if that's too obtuse you can just email me through the board.
Thanks -- I remember a lot of good talks that happened there.
Posted by julianD (Member # 10450) on :
So here are some thoughts/hopes for bean and his kids in shadows in flight, I think new peter should speak beans death. I imagined beans kids as being exploited by starways congress into making the godspoken of path. It just seems to me something they would be familiar with if they have to come up with a cure for themselves. I hope osc will give bean at least a chapter of life in this new book. I have grown fond of bean (so much so that i have reread the shadow series 4 times). I realize beans story has to come to an end I just don't want it to.
[ June 16, 2007, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: julianD ]
Posted by -Xan- (Member # 10091) on :
The way i figure it, Bean is going to die( hopefully he does something awesome as it happens though) then the Beanie babies have to be really bean-like and live up to the expectations the readers have for beans next of kin. Or i will cry
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
Sure, JT, I'll send it along sometime today or tomorrow, depending on when I'll have access to the files. Posted by Iain (Member # 9899) on :
quote:Originally posted by CRash:
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Crash, did you save a lot of that B&N discussion? I'd love to read it (have I asked you this before?).
I think you have asked me before! Well, yes, but it was all saved originally in .txt files. This means the formatting of the class is messed up and jumbled quite a lot, and the "sub-topics" that you could expand in the original class aren't separated any more. But it's certainly readable, and I've tried to clear the excess out of a couple of them. I'm working on Word documents that I can format for easier reading. If you'd like, I can email you the files, JT, or if anyone else has a suggestion for me on how to share them with others, it's welcome.
Ok, I emailed you yesterday about this.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I still haven't gotten an email from you, CRash.
Unless you sent it and it got picked up as spam.
Posted by Stick1988 (Member # 10556) on :
Hmmmm, after I finished "Shadow of a Giant" I kind of figured that the people of Path were the "fixed" version of the genetic alteration in Bean and his kids. Super smart but dont grow out of control. I guess I was wrong....
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
Stick1988 "I kind of figured that the people of Path were the "fixed" version of the genetic alteration in Bean and his kids. Super smart but dont grow out of control. I guess I was wrong...."
No, I think you were right. We know a great deal of research into genetic engineering was going on on Bean's behalf, though after a certain number of years, the core reason would have been lost. Now move 3,000 years into the future. Very likely the people of Path were a direct result of the research into a cure for Bean. But again, by that time the original purpose would have been lost.
I suspect Starways Congress decided to do a little experiment on the people of Path and made the genetic modifications that produced extreme intelligence but without the negative factors suffered by Bean, then as a safe guard, introduce the obsessive-compulsive disorder genetic 'switch' to keep the people of Path under control.
They learned how to turn Anton's Key ON without the problems Bean had, but they had yet to learn how to cure Bean. Either that, or in time, they simply gave up on that mission. It is only the people of Lusitania that learn to make the genetic corrections to the people of Path, and that was an extremely difficult task that involved going outside the known universe and wishing for a cure.
So, one might ask, why didn't Starways Congress change everyone? Wouldn't it be nice and productive to live in a world of geniuses? I suspect no politician wants to live in a world were everyone is smarter than he is. Consequently, I suspect no politician would ever vote for what eventually would be their own doom.
Just a thought.
Steve/BlueWizard
Posted by cduke23 (Member # 10571) on :
I had the same thought. I thought that it might be a rework of Volescu's virus to include the OCD. The virus would be selective and activate only in individuals who meet the genetic prerequisites.
I too want to see the conclusion of Bean's life, but I also need to know what happens with new!Peter and Jane in the flesh. I am also very interested in the future of the piggies and the Formics. Do the Formics ever cross paths with humans from Earth? What about the species/lifeform who is believed to have created the Descolada? Is there ever any reconciliation with them or is it going to be Jane the Xenocide this time?
So here are the things I need to see:
1 Bean die (for closure) 2 Bean's children's story play out a bit 3 The Formic's and the Pequinoe's (sp?) story play out more as well. 4 A story involving the new civilization who are believed to have created the descolada 5 More story (possibly a Novella) involving new!Peter with Wang-Mu and Jane/Val with Miro. 6 I also wouldn't mind seeing a short story or a Novella about the Citizens of Path involving the Volescu virus and Starways Congress.
I know this is asking for a lot and OSC probably has better things to do, but I just think there is so much more story to tell. Perhaps OSC will pass the torch one day One of the biggest reasons I want these things to happen is because I don't want to see this end the way Arthur C. Clarke's/Gentry Lee's Rama series end. I enjoyed the books, but I couldn't help but feel empty with the conclusion of the matter. I realize that the whole point of the last three books had everything to do w/ the human aspect, but I wanted more of the science fiction/fantasy aspect of it. Sorta the same w/ 3001: The Final Oddessy, I loved the books but I wanted to hear from the civilization that left the Monolith.
Maybe that's just me. Input anyone?
Posted by Ankit (Member # 10598) on :
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: My guess is that Shadows in Flight will open with Bean already dead.
Assuming it ever gets written.
That's a fair assumption, since the Ender books are typically the best-selling ones. But OSC also has Ender in Exile, Battleschool Christmas, the Mazer standalone novel, the last Alvin Maker book, another Women in Genesis book, the possible Pastwatch prequel, the sequel to the book with the really smart monkey, and various plays and short stories to write.
And those are just off the top of my head.
So which books now are related to Ender's series but not officially?
Posted by Ankit (Member # 10598) on :
quote:Originally posted by cduke23:
1 Bean die (for closure)
I don't know how much I need this. I'm content with it's current ending. I want to know more about the lost child. In fact, I'm guessing it will be at least partly centered around Achilles II
quote: 2 Bean's children's story play out a bit
Pretty sure this will be the center of the story
quote: 3 The Formic's and the Pequinoe's (sp?) story play out more as well.
Don't see that happening. Their stories got pretty well closed off with CotM. I was surprised the Formics lasted that long.
quote: 4 A story involving the new civilization who are believed to have created the descolada
I think I need to do some re-reading because I don't remember this. When was there a *new* civilization that created anything?
quote: 5 More story (possibly a Novella) involving new!Peter with Wang-Mu and Jane/Val with Miro.
This would be interesting to see.
quote: 6 I also wouldn't mind seeing a short story or a Novella about the Citizens of Path involving the Volescu virus and Starways Congress.
That would be interesting to see, also, but for sure I wouldn't want it worked into the Ender books.
Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
i suppose i'm not so worried about beans death. honestly, i saw him off as petra did. i would love to read a few paragraphs about his death.. but in all honesty i could even do without that.
i do, on the otherhand, see a whole new path for the series to follow beyond just shadows in flight. uniting earth spanned over 3 books.. what can we expect from new characters (not to mention new!peter) and the concept of uniting the hundered worlds.
Posted by cduke23 (Member # 10571) on :
The civilization I'm talking about (the reading refers to them as the "descoladores" in chapter 14 "How They Communicate With Animals") used something akin to chemistry to communicate. In chapter 14 page 314 the descoladores transmitted a "message" that is "exactly designed to work at precisely the same location in the brain as the heroin molecule" to the crew of Jane's ship.
Posted by Sagyp (Member # 10423) on :
quote:Originally posted by cduke23: 1 Bean die (for closure) 2 Bean's children's story play out a bit 3 The Formic's and the Pequinoe's (sp?) story play out more as well. 4 A story involving the new civilization who are believed to have created the descolada 5 More story (possibly a Novella) involving new!Peter with Wang-Mu and Jane/Val with Miro. 6 I also wouldn't mind seeing a short story or a Novella about the Citizens of Path involving the Volescu virus and Starways Congress.
I agree with all of the above. I also agree with Ankit with regard to reading more about Achille II.
I would also like to know what became of the bright boy who accompanied Ender in his journey to find the hivequeen's egg.
Posted by Ankit (Member # 10598) on :
Oh yeah! I forgot about that kid.
Posted by Moderus (Member # 10653) on :
I had to register just so I could give my thoughts on Bean. I'm pretty sure someone else has thought of this.
Bean is on a ship with his children. On that ship, there is an ansible. Jane has total control over ansibles. Isn't it possible that while new!Peter and Si Wang Mu are traveling(in what I'm guessing would be new!Peter trying to take control of existing Starway's Congress) that Jane uncovers the fact that Bean and his children are still traveling, and she brings them to Lusitania? I'm not sure if that is totally plausible though because I haven't done the calculations on if Bean would still be alive after 3,000 normal years. From what I got from the books about Bean's ship, it's two weeks of acceleration and two weeks of deceleration, so that right there is a month. Once at light speed, how many years could Bean conceivably live at that speed? Kinda complicated. Those are my thoughts.
Posted by kristina msp (Member # 10359) on :
i have no idea if anyone has said this yet, but....what if the Beanie Babies ARE the Descoladores (spelling?)....and the reason that they mess with genes (and do it so well) is because 1) they are super smart...and 2) they HAVE to mess with genes just to keep themselves alive..fighting the giantism and such... and there would be a ton of reasons why they could have the need to "send out" viruses.... just a thought??
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by kristina msp: i have no idea if anyone has said this yet, but....what if the Beanie Babies ARE the Descoladores (spelling?)....and the reason that they mess with genes (and do it so well) is because 1) they are super smart...and 2) they HAVE to mess with genes just to keep themselves alive..fighting the giantism and such... and there would be a ton of reasons why they could have the need to "send out" viruses.... just a thought??
It's been speculated before, but the timeline doesn't really fit. The descolada has been around for way to long for Bean or his descendants to have anything to do with it. Especially since there were a whole bunch of planets with proto-Descolada viruses on them. Unless mr Card decides to introduce some sort of lame time travel into the equation, it just doesn't fit.
Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
There are a million possibilities with the decoladores. just because of things stated in the series about the descolada and what we know thus far doesn't mean they are accurate to what it could be. couldnt the estimate of how long the descolada had been on the planet be wrong? the only other thing that could tell us how long it had been around is by planter's story.. i think he said that story has been around for 29 generations. if it were HUMAN generations that's 580 years or more. but how long is a piggie generation? he mentions something about how his forest even that old i think.. so if we could know how old his forest is then we can get an idea of how long the descolada was on the planet for. well.. as long as it's less than 580 years old. otherwise.. we could at least assume that it's CLOSE to whatever age the forest is.
i dunno.. personally i dont want any of the shadow series characters be the descoladors. it'd take the romance i have in my head away of there being a new alien race.. highly advanced no less.
if there was a connection to the descoladors and a shadow series character, though.. my money is volescu. he was sent away.. but he was also under IF control.. also an amazing geneticist that could be released under starways congress in order to make planets habitable.
i just dont want them to be HUMAN. i dont even want them to be described with any human features. there were some good speculations in CotM worth following.
the "give a brick or sandwich" thing.. giving them a reward or punishment. i kind of picture them as having something less of a hive-mind but also something more than how the father trees communicate.
i dunno.. i guess i didnt think a lot of this through lemme know if you guys can give me some insight
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by la.SOMA: couldnt the estimate of how long the descolada had been on the planet be wrong? the only other thing that could tell us how long it had been around is by planter's story.. i think he said that story has been around for 29 generations. if it were HUMAN generations that's 580 years or more. but how long is a piggie generation? he mentions something about how his forest even that old i think.. so if we could know how old his forest is then we can get an idea of how long the descolada was on the planet for. well.. as long as it's less than 580 years old. otherwise.. we could at least assume that it's CLOSE to whatever age the forest is.
I'm going to reference all of the quotes from SftD of when the descolada reached Lusitania:
quote:By Pipo, page 42 "The cataclysm (descolada) might have been fairly recent--half a million years ago..."
quote:By Gusto, page 134 "The Descolada may be fairly recent--only half a million years old--and most species couldn't adapt."
quote:By Ela, page 216 "Whatever the predator was that forced the cabra to develop that behavior pattern, it's gone. And only recently--in the last hundred thousand years, the last million years maybe...I think it was a disease...Everything comes back to the Descolada."
The most "recent" estimate given by these quotes is 100,000 years for when the descolada came to the planet. Two say 500,000 years.
Here's some math for you: the oldest living trees in our world (right now the record-holder is a bristlecone pine named Methuselah) are about 5,000 years old. Multiply that by 30 generations (include Skysplitter because he was "old") and you get 150,000 years. This is based upon Earth trees, of course, and we don't know how old fathertrees can be.
There is no logical way that the descolada arrived anytime after humans began interstellar travel. Evolution takes thousands of years. Skysplitter's story was passed over thousands of years. Even if the scientists' estimates were off, they wouldn't be off enough to land the descolada on Lusitania in the last 3,000 years. It just wouldn't make sense.
Oh, here's reference on Skysplitter's story:
quote:From Xenocide, page 505 "How old is that war?"
"Skysplitter's War was twenty-nine generations ago. Our own forest isn't that old. But we carried songs and stories with us from our father-forest."
"That part of the story about the sky and the stars, that could be a lot older, though, couldn't it?"
"Very old. The fathertree Skysplitter died long ago. He might have been very old even when the war took place."
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by la.SOMA: the "give a brick or sandwich" thing.. giving them a reward or punishment. i kind of picture them as having something less of a hive-mind but also something more than how the father trees communicate.
i dunno.. i guess i didnt think a lot of this through lemme know if you guys can give me some insight
Don't forget, the whole genetic molecule thing was just one type of transmission out of many. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but I do remember that it just happened to be the only type of transmission Jane could decode.
While the whole "super heroin" incident suggests that the stream is some sort of transmission mechanism, we have no idea how much or what role it plays in their overall communications.
Posted by insomniakk (Member # 11750) on :
quote:Originally posted by kristina msp: i have no idea if anyone has said this yet, but....what if the Beanie Babies ARE the Descoladores (spelling?)....and the reason that they mess with genes (and do it so well) is because 1) they are super smart...and 2) they HAVE to mess with genes just to keep themselves alive..fighting the giantism and such... and there would be a ton of reasons why they could have the need to "send out" viruses.... just a thought??
I also had that idea, because of the whole biotech that is being used to comunacate with Miro and his team but If thats the case then theres no problem or delema and without a problem in the book it's not going to be a very interesting read...
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
I'm surprised this thread has revived.
I'm going to stray tangentially from the central theme, but I feel they are or will be connected in the end.
Right now, as of the end of Children of the Mind, Peter, Valentine, and Valentine/Jane are the most dangerous and feared people in the 100 Worlds.
They just easily defeated Star Congress's fleet. They have exclusive control of faster than light travel. They have reversed Congresses control of the people of Path. Worse yet, they reversed that control in a way that the people of Path, I feel, eventually knew about.
Keep in mind that Jane's 'faster then lightspeed' travel is far more complicated than simply getting in a starship and getting there fast. Jane can transport anyone anywhere. She can transport soldier directly into Starships. She can transport an army into the Halls of Congress if she so chooses.
Politicians don't usually sit by idly when faced with such a perceived threat.
Further, in the final books, there is plenty of evidence that Congress has not acted in the most ethical manner. It would only take a little rabble rousing to turn the tide against them.
I see huge potential for conflict as Peter/Jane/Valentine try to reform Congress and as Congress fight to maintain its political and economic control.
Further, from Congresses perspective, Peter has huge armies at his control. He has the Formics, a proven warring race, on his side and they are multiplying like rabbits on Viagra. He has the Pequinos (sp?) who are also multiplying rapidly. Both the Bugger and the Piggies are on planets that are out of the control of Congress. That has to seem like a huge threat of war to Congress. If not war, then certainly a threat to their power, control, and authority in the 100 Worlds and beyond.
Now bring into this tention, a group of genius beyond genius Beanie Babies, and the deck is stacked hugely in Peter's favor.
Though I don't see Peter seeking war or conflict, but I do see him trying to make so political reforms that Congress won't like. I suspect Peter will offer to share Faster Than Light Travel. But Congress and typical politicians don't like what they can't control. To them, faster than light travel Jane style, is a way of extending there control over the military and economic interests of the 100 Worlds. It give them immense power and leverage in their world. Be nice and generous to us or your goods will take 100 years to reach their destination instead of 10 minutes.
But I don't see Jane playing that game. I see her to the limited extent possible, trying to be fair in making Faster Than Light Travel available.
Like I said, Congress and politicians don't like what they can't control to their own advantage.
Further, I wonder just how far Jane can expand Faster Than Light Travel. If Peter and Val/Jane have kids will they be tapped into the Grid? Will they be able to assist? Will the Mother Trees and or the Father Trees be able to implement FTLT independent of Jane?
I think there is plenty of room for answering unanswered questions and for conflict in the Shadows in Flight book. And I see a real place for the Beanie Babies in all this conflict.
If Congress really knew what they were up against, I think they would surrender immediately.
Just a few thoughts.
Steve/bluewizard
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Basically all of Peter and the gang's power comes from Jane, and if they start pushing congress around too much, is there anything that stops them from disconnecting the computers from the ansibles again? I know that Jane can still manage FTL travel to some extent by using the mother trees, but to quote Peter, it's not "wholly adequate or satisfactory".
The new Peter is essentially a combination of Ender and the original Peter, and if there's one thing that the Wiggin brothers had in common it's that they achieved victory by out-smarting and out-maneuvering their enemies. They never had superior force on their sides. Quite the contrary, in fact. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if it comes down to Peter and the others against congress (or against the Descoladores) OSC is going to need some kind of Jane kryponite. Between being able to move anything anywhere and being able to create anything they can imagine Outside, Jane could be the ultimate deus ex machina
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: OSC is going to need some kind of Jane kryponite. Between being able to move anything anywhere and being able to create anything they can imagine Outside, Jane could be the ultimate deus ex machina.
I thought Jane was pretty much deus ex machina from the moment she was introduced in Speaker--she's in every computer, has all recorded human knowledge at her disposal, can monitor practically any activity connected to the ansible system...
Ender had to turn off Jane in Speaker for the plot conflicts to pick up, and Jane had to be incapacitated in Xenocide/Children to keep the plot progressing there as well. I think Ender in Exile is pre-Jane (not sure on this, though). For any story that Jane's in to be truly interesting, she has to be sidelined.
One theory for the Shadows in Flight linker book: Jane's new physical body (Young Val) causes problems somehow. I don't know, but I think you're right, neo-dragon, somebody needs to assassinate Jane. Otherwise every Enderverse story will be happily-ever-after.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
I don't think Jane or Val/Jane need to die, but without a doubt Congress will understand the power and importance she represents, and will, without a doubt, try to find some way to control her. That will be their first grave mistake.
Young Peter is shrewd and a brilliant strategist. He carried not Ender but a sense of Ender with him. He is not to be trifled with by anyone who expects to survive the encounter.
While I didn't dwell on it, most certainly Jane's power and Val/Jane's physical body represent both threat and vulnerabilities to Congress and the businessmen who control Congress. And I think the attempts to capture and control Jane must certainly be a big part of the conflict.
I see a lot of story here that I am very eager to read. Though to keep myself from being too disappointed, when I read, I try to take a 'take it as it comes' attitude.
Steve/bluewizard
Posted by Patrickif (Member # 12189) on :
Bean will be dead. But his children will most likely be in there early teens by the time shadows in flight takes place. That means that they will already be showing signs of giantism and the descolada might work in rearanging there genectics. Because in a sense they are not human but they are the closest thing one can get to being human while still being ramen. So Anton's key might act as a self-sacrificing defense in that it might turn itself off in the process of neutralizing the descoloda. I read this entire thread and no one thought of that as a possibility. But the question is how do they get to Lusitania well New Peter might be able to access old Peter's ansible transmissions between himsellf and Graff and find that one of his brother' friends who ended up being old Peters ally, Bean, is still in space somewhere. So New Peter will thusly have jane use the Outside to bring Bean's children to Lusitania and help them or for all we know it could be the Recolada that saves Bean's kids.
Posted by HeyZeus (Member # 12192) on :
quote:Originally posted by Patrickif: Bean will be dead. But his children will most likely be in there early teens by the time shadows in flight takes place. That means that they will already be showing signs of giantism and the descolada might work in rearanging there genectics. Because in a sense they are not human but they are the closest thing one can get to being human while still being ramen. So Anton's key might act as a self-sacrificing defense in that it might turn itself off in the process of neutralizing the descoloda. I read this entire thread and no one thought of that as a possibility. But the question is how do they get to Lusitania well New Peter might be able to access old Peter's ansible transmissions between himsellf and Graff and find that one of his brother' friends who ended up being old Peters ally, Bean, is still in space somewhere. So New Peter will thusly have jane use the Outside to bring Bean's children to Lusitania and help them or for all we know it could be the Recolada that saves Bean's kids.
I was under the assumption that the godspoken of the planet of path was the result of research into antons key by the IF then later SC, so the cure is already there, if that is the case. Of course over the years instead of curing bean and kids they became more pre-occupied with a race of subservient geniuses.
Posted by Aris Katsaris (Member # 4596) on :
quote:In A Song of Ice and Fire, Martin hasn't killed the main protagonist yet; he just did a bit of a fake-out in the first book by killing someone you thought was the protagonist.
That person was undeniably the protagonist up to their death. Obviously after said death they weren't the protagonist any longer.
quote:If ASOIAF ends with Dany and Jon Snow's deaths, then you have a point.
And if they do die, what will prevent you from claiming that one to be a fake out too, and that the real protagonists are Arya and Tyrion?
Posted by adocun (Member # 12204) on :
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by kristina msp: i have no idea if anyone has said this yet, but....what if the Beanie Babies ARE the Descoladores (spelling?)....and the reason that they mess with genes (and do it so well) is because 1) they are super smart...and 2) they HAVE to mess with genes just to keep themselves alive..fighting the giantism and such... and there would be a ton of reasons why they could have the need to "send out" viruses.... just a thought??
It's been speculated before, but the timeline doesn't really fit. The descolada has been around for way to long for Bean or his descendants to have anything to do with it. Especially since there were a whole bunch of planets with proto-Descolada viruses on them. Unless mr Card decides to introduce some sort of lame time travel into the equation, it just doesn't fit.
This is my first time posting, and I find it quite possible that the time line doesn't fit, but this is almost exactly what I was thinking. With a small difference. I've been thinking that Beans children (possibly thousands of years ago) landed on the descoladores planet and merged with the population, survived on their own...or whatever, but that this time on the planet they modify the descolada to get back at the human race (due to incorrect notions as to how Bean ended up on the ship away from his children) Sort of the way Bean's final child in Ender in Exile was raised, except that Bean wouldn't tell them anything so they drew their own conclusions. I was also thinking about the way the blue-eyed people in the worthing saga ended up developing their powers and thought that this would play a part. Tell me what you guys think of this?
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by adocun:
quote:Originally posted by ricree101:
quote:Originally posted by kristina msp: i have no idea if anyone has said this yet, but....what if the Beanie Babies ARE the Descoladores (spelling?)....and the reason that they mess with genes (and do it so well) is because 1) they are super smart...and 2) they HAVE to mess with genes just to keep themselves alive..fighting the giantism and such... and there would be a ton of reasons why they could have the need to "send out" viruses.... just a thought??
It's been speculated before, but the timeline doesn't really fit. The descolada has been around for way to long for Bean or his descendants to have anything to do with it. Especially since there were a whole bunch of planets with proto-Descolada viruses on them. Unless mr Card decides to introduce some sort of lame time travel into the equation, it just doesn't fit.
This is my first time posting, and I find it quite possible that the time line doesn't fit, but this is almost exactly what I was thinking. With a small difference. I've been thinking that Beans children (possibly thousands of years ago) landed on the descoladores planet and merged with the population, survived on their own...or whatever, but that this time on the planet they modify the descolada to get back at the human race (due to incorrect notions as to how Bean ended up on the ship away from his children) Sort of the way Bean's final child in Ender in Exile was raised, except that Bean wouldn't tell them anything so they drew their own conclusions. I was also thinking about the way the blue-eyed people in the worthing saga ended up developing their powers and thought that this would play a part. Tell me what you guys think of this?
Welcome to Hatrack!
Bean's children probably wouldn't have landed on the planet thousands of years ago, considering only about three thousand years have passed between when Bean left and the Speaker trilogy. You also have to take into account that although it would take not much time subjectively for the travelers, objective time is still passing while they are in flight. Spatially it could be a very large distance between Earth and the descolada planet, considering that it was far beyond one of the "frontiers" of human settlement of the time, Lusitania. I am clueless when it comes to numbers, but I doubt that there would be enough time left over for a Worthing-esque planet to emerge. (Not to mention there would have to be extreme incest for such a thing to get rolling.)
I don't think it would be the same story if Ender's children met this random alien race of humans compared to meeting Bean's immediate children, and I'm fairly sure that OSC has mentioned that the latter is the book would be about. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a meeting between Bean's clan and the descoladores was somehow part of the plot, but I don't think it would happen the way you described. That would mean OSC would be reusing story points from not one but two separate novels (Exile and Worthing) and even though something like somec/stasis has apparently bridged the gap, I still like to think that the next book would be something unexpected rather than recycled. To me that's the difference between an original novel and fanfiction.
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
Keep in mind that, as other have pointed out, the Beanie Babies have only existed for 3,000 years. The Driscoladeros have existed for ten's, if not the far more likely hundreds of thousand of years, and possibly millions of years.
Keep in mind the Driscoladeros had to evolve to the level where they could do genetic engineering on the scale that they do. Then they had to evolve to the point where they could send their genetic code to various planets. Then those planets that received the new genetic code had to themselves evolve. That kind of evolution does not occur in 3,000 years.
So, the Driscoladeros are much older than the Beanie Babies by many thousands of years, if not thousands of centuries.
I suspect the Beanie Babies role will be, once they are themselves cured, to help the humans on Lusitania solve the mystery of the Driscoladeros.
Also, of course, as I hinted at before, the Beanie Babies will help Peter to challenge and change the Starways Congress. But, I won't go into that again, it can be found in my previous posts.
Driscoladeros - I'm sure that is probably not the right spelling, but I confess myself too lazy to look it up.
Steve/bluewizard
Posted by Silas (Member # 5220) on :
I haven't read this whole post, but I just got done reading a few ones like it..so I don't know if this has been said yet...but who's to say that the Beanie Babies have to make there way to Lusitania now? Because of FTL travel now, they may never set foot on Lusitania.
Also
I always pondered the idea that the Lusitanians are descendants of Peter and Petra (and Bean's non-Anton) children. Lusitiania has Portuguese speaking people on it, Peter and Petra raised their children in Brazil , a Portuguese speaking country. And the children would naturally have married Brazilian people, if they stayed in the community.
In this case, Card is also giving us a glimpse at Bean's other babies, and there descendants.
Is it at least fathomable, however unlikely, that Card could hint at some relation to this?
Posted by AndrewTV (Member # 12297) on :
Hello All. I read the forums often but I just signed up today. I am a huge fan of OSC and have read almost all of his books/series.
Ender is of course my favorite. I probably have a deeper connection to him since my name is also Andrew. haha. but on to my point....
I have been reading this thread along with the Shadows in flight thread and a thought came to me.
I believe that bean will probably be dead when Shadows In Flight begins. He was already getting pretty close to his limit at the end of Giant, and this was one of the reasons that he left.
I think that Jane will come across the bean babies routine and make initial contact. From there she will instantly tell peter & miro. They in turn will ask that she bring them home.
Bean (being a good father) would have told the kids stories about Ender, Peter, Petra, and so forth. They would have studied history and read the hive queen & Hedgemon (considering everybody reads it and they are geniuses). When they meet peter they will expect an explanation of his existence. They will be wondering how a man that supposedly lived with their father 3k years ago is still alive. Then they will find out that Ender actually conjured Peter & Valentine on their first trip outside.
Who is to say that the Bean Babies would not be so attached to their father that they plot to do the same with bean. All it would take is 1 genius bean baby to put the image of their father & his aiua into their head when one of them goes outside for the first time, and BOOM, bean is back. Or heck, they are smart, they put images of petra, bean and all their brothers & sisters into their heads and presto... the delphiki family is united.
Now I'm not saying this is 100%, but so far only ender has brought back somebody else. Afterward we learned that Jane started doing the whole outside thing quick enough for human brains not to notice.... but the bean babies are not human. They are smarter then that. Will she make adjustments for that, or will it not even matter.
I for one would not be suprised that when the first bean babie goes outside, that we see some kind of creation come out of the journey. Even though they are not human, that doesnt mean they wont love or miss their father enough to wish bean back into existence.
Obviously a lot of this is speculation. but I thought I might toss that out there for discussion.
let me know what you all think about my 1st post!
i will try not to make it my last.
*currently reading Hidden Empire** OSC is awesome.
Posted by AndrewTV (Member # 12297) on :
I need to make a correction. miro brought back his new body. but that wasnt another person. just a new version of himself. and again, jane supposedly made adjustments to make sure that didnt happen again.
but will her adjustments work for the bean babies is my question.
i am sure that OSC tosses a few turns our way.
he always does!
Posted by 42jemini (Member # 12298) on :
OSC seems to show a pattern of never truly resolving every issue in any of his books. However, the subject matter of Shadows in Flight is most likely a subject of particular interest due to the simple fact that the manner in witch there giantism issue is resolved is particularly obvious to anyone who has read all of the speaker trillogy (I don't care if anyone wants to call it the "Ender quartet", speaker for the dead and on is a completely different subject from Ender's Game to me) and has finished Shadow of the Giant.
Along with this obvious resolution, that being that a supper splicer based on the descolada is the only thing that can cure an already living person of a genetic condition. It also strikes me that the research that allowed the "God spoken" in Xenocide to become what they were was likely a direct result of the project for Bean's cure being started. The only difference is that Bean and his kids would be even smarter that the people of Path as they are now due to the simple fact that they have larger brain capacity.
Also, if someone involved with the Hegemony put anything in to Jane's program involving funding for Bean, then Jane can not help but know about Bean and will call him out of hyperspace as soon as the hubub with Lucitania just barely avoiding destruction all dies down due to the fact that she already knows there is a cure. And if there is nothing like that in her program to tip her off, then she will likely figure it out when Bean's ship is the only one that dose not instantly take up her offer to instantly transport them to there destination with a jump outside.
These are all the obvious conclusions that can be drawn from what OSC has already written. Outside of that, it is his privilege to make up the new things that seround the predictable outcome, or even take a less that obvious rout for the sake of making the story interesting. Whatever he dose with this, I am eagerly awaiting Shadows in Flight.
Posted by JANEiAM (Member # 12335) on :
I don't see Bean dead in Shadows in Flight; in fact I see something similiar to the 'rebirth' of ender/peter in Children of the Mind for Bean and his children. Somehow, Jane has to be ignorant of Bean and his children; therefore when he comes out of his flight she will pick up on it and they will do something similiar for him and his children. It's what I would do for such an inspiring and great character.
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Well, yes, but it was all saved originally in .txt files. This means the formatting of the class is messed up and jumbled quite a lot, and the "sub-topics" that you could expand in the original class aren't separated any more. But it's certainly readable, and I've tried to clear the excess out of a couple of them. I'm working on Word documents that I can format for easier reading. If you'd like, I can email you the files, JT, or if anyone else has a suggestion for me on how to share them with others, it's welcome. ![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
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