Another fun novel that fits perfectly into the whole Enderverse. Makes you think a bit too about the whole full circle thing with someone being radical with their beliefs and the reasons behind it. Kind of interesting with the whole War on Christmas we seem to have here recently with stores debating on weather to even say Merry Christmas, all the nativity scenes issues, what can go on in our public schools in regards to Christmas, and on and on and on. I really liked to see a bit more into Dink while also getting to see another new character. It’ll be interesting to see if Zeck finds his way into some future Ender book.
Another great thing is how perfect of a Christmas book this will be. Especially since you can get it personalized too!
Thanks Scott!
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
War on Christmas, hell. This year we had a full-fledged War on Halloween, and I won't stand for it. They already ruined Armistice Day for everyone!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Ah, so THAT'S why no one's front porch lights were on this year.
Urge to kill, rising...
Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
NOOOOO! PSI calm, chill, eat CANDY, Take out your anger on the Kitkat youll be okay . JK LOL Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
You're behind the times Jay. They're no longer content with using inclusiveness and insisting on secularity in public institutions. This year's assualt plan includes wide-spread use of fulminating liquids and, as I understand it, crossbows.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
That's it, Squick--you're off my strike team. I warned you about OPSEC. *trades crossbows*
Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
Geez, man, read up on Operation Coal in the Stocking. I'm supposed to get the Knights of the Red and the Green to trust me and take me into their confidence. Keep this up and the whole effort to learn the dark secret behind eggnog will fail before it really even began.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
So.... uh.... yeah..... War of Gifts.... Anyone read it?
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I read it and really enjoyed it. Being a teacher in that place had to be rather high stress. They had to deal with all those kids who were smarter than them. Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Okay, for the record, I never read "War of Gifts". But I don't understand why the students would be so much smarter than the teachers. From what I understand, the search for an "Ender-type" child had been going on for at least a generation. Couldn't some of the older hopefuls have grown up to teach at Battle School? (I'm thinking of the testing that Ender's father went through in "First Meetings".)
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
Well Graff was certainly smarter than the average bear. He had to be to play the game as deep as he did. I think its fair to say that the IF teachers had to be smart. Why would the IF who could select from all of their gifted graduates employ them otherwise.
I haven't read Gifts yet, but it would be interesting to get more of Graff's story. I would be cool to have another parallel novel starting with Graff's career in First Meetings and taking us through Ender's game?
Some titles could be: Ender's Measure (my favorite) Ender's Paragon Ender's Paradigm Ender's Induction Ender's Inception
Just so long as Card finishes Shadows in Flight, Wives of Isreal, and Alvin Maker first Posted by Iarn Greiper (Member # 10731) on :
Oh, this is a weird thing I noticed. In the book, there's a lot of talk about socks. However, in ender's game, I believe Ender told one character something about keeping farts in socks, and the response was something about not having socks. I know it's a minor inconsistency, but it is one nonetheless.
Oh, the story was great though.
Posted by Eisenoxyde (Member # 7289) on :
Jay: Especially since you can get it personalized too!
Where is the link for that? Or am I just too late?
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
I just got War of Gifts today, and I'm quite far already. It's very refreshing to be able to pick up a fresh new Orson Scott Card work and immerse oneself in it. If you hadn't beaten me to it, Jay, I would have made a thread like this.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Huh.... The personalized link is gone. And here I was going to get everyone on my Christmas list that. Dang.... now what am I going to do.
Posted by Lupus (Member # 6516) on :
I think the adults are very smart as well...but I'd say at least the best of the kids are smarter than the adults.
And judging from the Polish boy, it seems that they have only been really looking for the "commander" since Ender's dad was a boy. The people running the school were already in service then.
Posted by Catseye1979 (Member # 5560) on :
From what I got about the socks is there were very few of them which is why they had to be traded back and forth so much, so while I don't think they wore socks maybe they found some later.....maybe they stole some from the grown ups......ever try stealing from Marines before?.....
I noticed a few other inconsistencies but for the most part I like them as it makes me use my imagination more to try to work out how to make things fit.....for the most part charecter point of view can solve most of them.
Edit: On a side note I'm now intreasted in what happened to Zeck when he finnally goes home.....What will the condition of his family be and how will they respond to each other.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
"And judging from the Polish boy, it seems that they have only been really looking for the "commander" since Ender's dad was a boy. The people running the school were already in service then."
That's what I'm saying. In thirty years presumably most of the older teachers would have retired and new ones would have to have been brought in. It would make sense to hire them from among former hopefuls or at least intelligent people who had caught their eye (eyes?).
Posted by VetaMega (Member # 8366) on :
I find the idea to be improvised on the spot.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I just started reading First Meetings and it seems like Graff's been around forever. If Rackam (sp?) could be kept around for Andrew to talk with, isn't it plausible that any teacher could age 'differently'? Also - what did spending years in the battle school do to how students age? What I mean is - does two years equal two years or...?
edit: oh - ps - War of Gifts IS fantastic! : )
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
Time dilation is an effect of travelling at near light speeds, not just being in space. Kids and teachers in battleshool would age like anyone else.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
The effect being in space has on height, however, is much more noticeable. Astronauts grow an average of two inches after being in space after the spine pressure is relieved in the null gravity.
I'm not sure whether I remember correctly, but if the Staff's offices are on the higher, low-G levels...
Anyway, Graff must have been a very young man when John Paul was tested. But a couple hundred years in the future (can't be 2070 anymore; China hasn't been scoured) , who knows what the average human lifespan is? And on a second note, military generals sometimes serve a long time once they get in a position that doesn't require the physical fitness of a strapping fresh recruit.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
quote:Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer: (can't be 2070 anymore; China hasn't been scoured)
Actually 2070 never worked. In "Xenocide" Val mentioned living on Earth in the 22nd century, and in SotH Bean mentions that the American civil war (which was in the 1860s)happened 300 years ago. So I always figured that 2170 makes more sense.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
Huh, I don't recall reading that in Xenocide. Guess I better reread the Ender books.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
It's near the bottom of page 17 of the paperback edition.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
War of Gifts personalized copy is back on the front page!
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
Picked this up at the airport last week for some flight time reading. Great little story, but then Card never disappoints.
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
So... If this book sells well and is generally well received, I wonder if it might prompt the faster release of "Shadows in Flight" and/or "Ender in Exile". I don't mean to sound impatient, but it's been nearly 3 years since SotG, and there's been no news since then.
Posted by Jay (Member # 5786) on :
Well, let's not forget that Scott is extremely busy with all that he does. Not only with the books he writes but the plays, classes, two different articles, IGMS short stories, and who knows what else I'm missing. When you look under the works in progress under his bibliography you can see that "The Lost Gate" looks like next years project.
Posted by Uindy (Member # 9743) on :
I finally got a chance to read War of Gifts. It was incredable.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
Jay, cheers buddy for starting the thread. I just finished War of Gifts a couple days ago, and I can't stop thinking about it.
Sadly I've only read Eg, SftD and Ender's Shadow. I was really young when I got introduced to the enderverse, 10 or 12, and I got around a quarter ways through xenocide, but I don't think I was old enough to fully appreciate it. You definitely need some comprehensive mental maturity to value OSC's imagination to the utmost.
But now after having read Gifts, which is awesome and lives up to all expectation, I'm re-reading Ender's Game for the billionth time and I'm going to go all the way to Shadow of the Giant. If you haven't read Gifts, you best be on your way out the door, right about...now
and...are the issues on IGMS worth it?
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ender's Brother: You definitely need some comprehensive mental maturity to value OSC's imagination to the utmost.
I get the feeling that OSC's imagination is the source of my comprehensive mental maturity. It pointed me in the right direction of empathy and humility when I first read Ender's Game at an early age. I still tremble at the monster I fear I could have became if Card didn't slap me in the face and tell me to wake up and identify with someone other than myself.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
too true, too true. I like your take on the issue C3P0, though i don't know about your name...just joking
yeah ender's game had a pretty profound effect on me as well. I still think that it has something that all the rest don't have. The other books might be just as well-written or have deeper philosophical issues being discussed, but Ender's Game has some x-factor, that brings me back again and again...and again.
C3P0, I didn't mean that I needed a mental maturity to read or understand EG, i meant it for SftD and onwards. There are some fairly heavy ideas being looked at in those books and I just don't think that an average 12 year old, ie younger me, could have fully understood them.
Maybe it's the simplicity of ender's game that I like. Don't get me the wrong, I don't think that ender's game is simple, but OSC has the ability to take a complex idea and smooth it out so that it is easily understandable and can be read without so much as a hiccup. This is shown really well in 'a war of gifts'. Don't you think?
Toodles folks...
Posted by Sergeant (Member # 8749) on :
As to IGMS, I've felt that each issue was well worth my $2.50. The OSC story would be worth that to me but in each issue there is at least one or two more stories that appealed to me. (not saying the others are not as good only that certain stories strike me more than others)
Give the first issue a read and I think you'll be hooked.
Sergeant
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
I've got another question about Graff's age. Is this the right place to ask it?
Posted by Razputin (Member # 9522) on :
I just received my copy from Amazon and it fell in the snow as I got out of the car. I want to cry....
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
I just read it and thoroughly enjoyed Zeck as a character.
As to the question of the teachers at Battle School: In ES, didn't Bean write an essay about how the Battle School teachers were chosen based on what makes a man stand out in the military--to him, a good salute and shiny buttons? He claimed they weren't there on nearly the same merits the children were.
Posted by Elise (Member # 7898) on :
I got it as a Sinterklaas gift, including poem (I'm dutch), on december 5th. Loved the book. My husband didn't realise how appropiate the gift was. He just saw that it was a new book by OSC and thought he would surprise me with it.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
quote:are the issues on IGMS worth it?
Yep. Especially the first issue.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
I'm sorry! Try a hair dryer
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
quote:Originally posted by Catseye1979: Edit: On a side note I'm now intreasted in what happened to Zeck when he finnally goes home.....What will the condition of his family be and how will they respond to each other.
Same! I just got War of Gifts today for Christmas and I'm really interested in what happens to Zeck. Unfortunately, I think it will be a long time before OSC has time to write a new book about him (if he's even motivated to do so). Maybe Zeck could pop up in the next book in the Bean series but by then he would have already grown up.
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
quote:Originally posted by Iarn Greiper: Oh, this is a weird thing I noticed. In the book, there's a lot of talk about socks. However, in ender's game, I believe Ender told one character something about keeping farts in socks, and the response was something about not having socks. I know it's a minor inconsistency, but it is one nonetheless.
Yep, good catch! I didn't remember that at all. The EG conversation does take place pre-WoG, too. Maybe launchies don't wear socks.
quote:Ender's Game, Starscape pb on pg. 60 "I want to see your fart collection," Alai said. "I stored it in your locker. Didn't you notice?" "I thought it was my socks." "We don't wear socks anymore." "Oh yeah." A reminder that they were both far from home. It took some of the fun out of having mastered a bit of navigation.
I really enjoyed this book. Zeck was a great new character, and reading his self-realization at the end was fascinating. Two thumbs up!
Posted by Launchywiggin (Member # 9116) on :
Just finished. Great story. I wish I knew a real-life Ender. He'd be a great friend, and great to play games with.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
ah... but Ender never really had any friends.. ;-)
Besides, old guy Ender was kinda crabby. :-)
Posted by dab (Member # 7847) on :
I was excited to read this book, but found myself a little disappointed after reading it. It was a fine story, but felt to me like a good piece of fan fiction. Funny think is, I don't know if I would have liked this story better or worse had it stood alone completely and didn't include any of the ENDER characters. On one hand It was fun to see them in a different context from the other books, but on the other, It seemed like they were only shadows (pardon the pun) of their well developed characters in the other books.
Posted by Dog Walker (Member # 8301) on :
I too was a little disappointed after reading the book. It was a little too short for me to really get into it. I loved Zeck and I enjoyed having a new story with my two fav. EG characters , Ender and Dink, but it was only a small taste that didnt satisfy my hunger, but rather only reminded me of what i was missing.
I loved the story but was left wanting more. I hope that OSC will find time to write a full novel with Dink or Zeck or just another battle school book period.
With all that said it is a decent short story and is worth the hour it will take to read.
Posted by Dark as night (Member # 9577) on :
Just got my copy of "War of Gifts" today from OSC himself! I think it has officially topped my "greatest gifts EVER" chart.
*prances away, whistling happily, to read the book*
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
this is an awsome book, but I don't recomend reading it durring breaks at work, or any other place with a time limit, you just wont be on time
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
If you went into reading it expecting it to BE a novel, you will be dissappointed. It wasn't a novel, it was a short story, and thus character development was somewhat limitted. I think that's why placing it in battleschool worked so well. He didn't have to develop Ender or Dink because we already know both of them. For a short story, it was very good... I've never seen a piece of FanFic that didn't seem quite corny to me.
Posted by SteveRogers (Member # 7130) on :
I loved it. Read it in less than an hour in the car. I just really liked it.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote:Originally posted by DDDaysh: If you went into reading it expecting it to BE a novel, you will be disappointed.
Exactly. I think I read the whole thing in about 20 minutes. It was entertaining, but if it disappeared from the series it wouldn't negatively impact my enjoyment of it.
There've been a few Ender stories in IGMS that I enjoyed more than this one. OSC seems to be developing secondary characters in all of his enderverse short stories. My guess is that he doesn't want to deprive himself of any material that he might use in the already under contract enderverse novels, so he stays away from existing storylines entirely.
What he's actually doing, though, is setting up the world perfectly for other writers. Wouldn't it be nice if the Ender movie is a slam dunk success and it became profitable to open the universe to other writers (a la Star Wars).
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
I guess the other way I thought about the story (to keep minor inconsistencies from bugging me) was to believe it was set in the "battle school universe" but wasn't actually part of the Ender's Game story line... sorta like an "alternate way things MIGHT have happened" as opposed to something that really HAD happened and just didn't get reported in Ender's Game.
If you tried to fit it truly into the story, the little things would have driven you nuts...
1) Socks - as everyone mentioned, Alai/Ender said they didn't wear socks anymore.
2) Zeck being in an army only a year after he was taken. According to Ender's Game, Ender was in his launch group & Salamander longer than that. Thus, if Zeck wasn't in Ender's launch group, he coudn't have been in an army for long enough to have a "reputation".... all the moreso because Army's only went into battle every two weeks.
3) Crazy Tom could NOT have been in Rat Army when Ender joined. Ender specifically commented on how lucky he was that all of his soldiers were younger than him when he got Dragon. If Crazy Tom was younger than Ender, then Ender couldn't be surprisingly young to Dink.
4) In Ender's Game Dink talks about playing with his older brother "in the cooridoors". Thus, going from "house to house" doesn't really make sense when he's thinking about what he "might have been doing". He also couldn't have really expected to have any younger brothers and/or sisters to make the holiday good for.
5) This wasn't REALLY inconsistant, but it made me wonder. If Muslim students were praying, wouldn't you have expected Alai to be among some of the most devout? Yet there isn't any mention of Alai getting arrested, and he was allowed to become a commander later - hmmmm...
If you really try to look for them, you will find problems everywhere. The universe is simply too elaborate to have so many stories that move back and forth between time for there not to be. Trying to add short stories with limitted space into it would always be problematic. It's much easier to let the story just "slide over the surface" of the "Enderverse" instead of actually tryong to squeeze it into an existing story line.
Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
DDDaysh: You've probably read EG more recently than I have, but I might have something that saves point 3. Rat Army wasn't Ender's first army. Dink may have been surprised by Ender's Age when he joined Salamander rather than Rat. Of course, I can't remember off-hand how long Ender was in Salamander, so I could be off.
If we assume Ender started in Salamander right after they had a battle, that gives him 2 weeks in before the first battle when he couldn't shoot. Then another 2 weeks till the battle where he fired against orders. I don't remember if it mentions whether he got out right after that (my last loaned out copy never made it back home, I have to go get another next time I'm out...) but I DO know that he still had his near-perfect record when he got into Rat (Rose mentions it), so if he DID have battles after that, he didn't do anything.
If those were his only 2 games, then we can give Ender 6 weeks into Salamander if we go the far end of conservative. Of course, if EG doesn't say that he was transfered right before his next battle, then it stands that he MIGHT have been in Salamander for long enough for the next group of Launchies to kick Crazy Tom up to Rat. After all, I don't think Tom was MUCH younger than Ender, maybe only a matter of weeks. He was recruited into Dragon from the "Veteran" list after all.
Also, it could be that Ender was the youngest sent to Battle school THUS FAR. Perhaps after him, they started sending MORE kids up early (well... we KNOW they did with Bean, but maybe it was more wide spread than that).
As for point 2, he must have skipped a good amount of Launchy time. In his "Talk" with Ender, he says he's almost 9. Graff says he's been there "Nearly a year". If Zeck came up at 8, then maybe they didn't feel the need for him to go the full run as a Launchy.
For point 1 (sorry if I'm going backward, I'm doing em in the order I think of em, lol), maybe it's only launchies that don't have Socks. Maybe they get em when they join an Army? (Long shot, but possible, and enough to save continuity)
For point 4, I think when it was originally written, OSC was looking back on the original story of Ender's Game, in which Battle School was on Earth, but a more developed and futuristic version where everything was steel corridors and whatnot. I think I recall something mentioned about using real wood, as though it was a real luxury. For continuity's sake, you could say that the Corridors were referring to School?
Of course... it's much more likely that OSC is only human and didn't see the continuity errors till it was too late (if ever). None of them are really important to "A War of Gifts", so I'm sure he would have changed them if he'd noticed.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Ive read the book (a 'booklet' more like) twice already, took me about two hours:p The book wouldnt have to be placed in Enderverse to keep its meaning but is nontheless a matching piece of it. Sociological and philosophical, as always. I liked it very much, made me think a bit. And that means the book was good:)
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Oh, I personally loved it. I laughed through most of the Dink parts. It sure made the afternoon at work go alot faster that day.
Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
quote:Originally posted by DDDaysh: 5) This wasn't REALLY inconsistant, but it made me wonder. If Muslim students were praying, wouldn't you have expected Alai to be among some of the most devout? Yet there isn't any mention of Alai getting arrested, and he was allowed to become a commander later - hmmmm...
I don't recall any indication that Alai was particularly religouse, aside from the being the Calif later, which I thaught was mostly because of his leadership ability not his faith. I know you said it wasn't a big inconsistentancy, but you clearly know/ recall Ender's Game better than I do, so why would Alai be one of the most devout?
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Only because it seems that if he IS going to accept being Calif later, he would be quite devout. It is really hard to imagine someone taking a religious role of that extremity later in life that wouldn't have been fervent as a boy... though not impossible.
Posted by airmanfour (Member # 6111) on :
I found the "only Ender can take care of this" a little flat. And I didn't think Ender from War of Gifts was very similar to Ender's Game Ender.
But since OSC does put words together so well, I'm not going to go crazy on his character continuity.
Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
The Ender in Ender's Game didn't think much at all about religion; the Hegemony suppressed such practices. The Ender in Ender's Game was chosen because he could know someone else well enough to love them, and this is the skill he uses to give his gift to Zeck. Seeing Graff thought very highly, and for good reason, of Ender, I suppose it isn't much of a leap at all for him to propose that Ender would be the best man to help Zeck.
EDIT: Uff da typos
[ January 30, 2008, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: C3PO the Dragon Slayer ]
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JK LOL ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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I think it has officially topped my "greatest gifts EVER" chart. ![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)