This is topic Violence in Scripture in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
To be honest, I haven't read the Koran all the way through yet, and I can't comprehend a lot of what I have read. But I've read the Book of Mormon many times, and it seems like there is quite a bit of war. It actually annoys my husband that there is so much discussion of war.

I was wondering about the war one time and though on how it can apply to my personal struggles, mainly to be less selfish and proud. It is symbolic that the wars in the Book or Mormon almost alway come from the almost elite, that is, people who aren't in charge but think they should be either due to wealth or learning or other kind of pride.

Also, to be honest, I haven't really read all of the Old Testament, but there seems to be a fair bit of God telling people to go and take folks out, or with the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah, God taking folks out himself. The point of the New Testament is not that we should all be nice to each other for a change (like Douglas Adams said) but that we should forsake the things of this world and seek for something else.

Anyway, maybe Card got around to bringing this up later in the "Civilized Religion" article, but it didn't seem like it was headed in that direction. I guess that folks killing in the name of God wrongly will be in some trouble.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Not to derail your thread, but this:

When TV shows like the ludicrous Big Love give the impression that the Mormon Church really condones polygamy, it is a lie.
is pretty silly. The family on Big Love lives in TERROR that their Mormon neighbors will find out they are polygamous. Every single Mormon on the show expresses disapproval of their lifestyle, if they are aware of it.

Anyone who watches the show and gets the impression that the Mormon church condones polygamy would need to lack basic comprehension skills.

Once again, OSC makes a declaration about something he's never actually bothered to watch.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Maybe he's watching House, where a Mormon is referred to as "Big Love".

I was interested to read this answer to a hypothetical that is often raised in Sunday School:
Even when the Mormon Church goes into countries where polygamy is legal -- many nations in Africa, for instance -- polygamous converts to the church are required to separate from (while still providing support for) all wives except the first.
Okay, well, I guess my point is that the killing converts thing is a pretty big problem, but there are perfectly intelligent people who are very conflicted about leaving the religions of their upbringing. There isn't any doctrine about killing them physically, but when you've be raised to think this life is an illusion and the next world is where it's at, being threatened with "spiritual death" is a little ominous.

[ November 07, 2007, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
You should remember that God says several times to the Israelites after they have settled Canaan in effect, "Do you think I would have given you this land if the inhabitants had not been so much worse then you?"

I think for God, taking us out of mortality is better in many cases then allowing us to live in gross sin.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Right. Now consider that many Muslims only know of us what they observe from our major media outlets.
Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
Pooka, was it you who recomended the book "Where God was Born" to me? If not, you should read it (or listen to it). It wasn't exactly what I would call an enjoyable read, but it was very interesting. It's written by a Jewish guy who goes back to the physical places in the bible. It's supposedly a sequel to one where he'd gone back to all the places in the Abraham through Moses stories, but I haven't read that one.

In this book, he goes back to all the places from David to Esther, including Jerusalem, other Israeli sites, Iraq (Babylon), and Iran (Persia). It deals with old ways and current wars. Militant muslims and peaceful ones - including strong women in Iran.

If you were the one who recomended it to me, it may be redundant, but if not, look it up. I think it might help focus some of your thoughts on the subject.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
It wasn't me, but I read a book that included an interview with the widow of Ayatollah Khomeini called Nine Parts of Desire by Geraldine Brooks. Something many people don't realize about Shi'a is that it was founded by Mohammed's younger wife, and women have more "hidden power" than in the usual separatist culture.

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