This is topic What is the golden order of the enderverse? in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
I'm trying to create a book of the highest quality containing all fragments of the enderverse. Yet I still labour over how to arrange the sections, I want to do everything justice by having it constructed to the utmost perfection.

I know the chronological order of the books, and the order of publication. I want some other ideas on arrangement. Don't forget to include the web issues, 'mazer in prsison', 'pretty boy' etc...also don't forget those yet to be published, 'ender in exile' and 'shadows in flight'.

Make a suggestion only if you have thoroughly thought about the golden order of the enderverse. Any attempt would be greatly appreciated.

Till next time,
Ender's Brother

[ November 29, 2007, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Ender's Brother ]
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
It might help if you explained more what you mean by "create a book of the highest quality containing all fragments of the enderverse."

Is this "book" supposed to be a novel, encyclopedia, satire, etc.?
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
Oops. Sorry. What I meant was that I'm going to get all the books together and have them printed into a single bound book. A large, well crafted item, containing all the volumes of the ender saga, the shadow series, and everything in between.

Apologies for the confusion. Any ideas would be great.

As always, much appreciated,
Ender's Brother
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
Why would you WANT them as a single volume? Leaving any potential legal issues aside, it'd be extremely unwieldy and prone to spine problems. A multi-volume set would, IMO, be more useful.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Are you planning on printing them into a single book, or binding previously printed pages into a single book?

One possible use for such a tome -- as part of a "shrine" to the Enderverse. I say this as someone who's high school bedroom was pretty much a shrine to Tolkien's Middle Earth.

But to answer your question, I would put the Ender series first, then the Shadow series, then all of the short stories in chronological order.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
I'd run novels and stories together in one long sequence ordered by publication date (which I assume is approximately date of completion by OSC). That way OSC's style would evolve in a natural way, and you'd get all the references to previous novels/stories in each work.

Actually, I'd probably put the original "Ender's Game" story at the very end as a sort of "bonus feature," since it wouldn't be that fun to read the Ender's Game novel knowing the ending.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
Except for the order of the short stories, that's the same order I proposed.

And I like the idea of putting the EG short story there. IIRC, my copy of First Meetings did the same.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
To all those doubters out there:
My idea is just that, an idea. I doubt that a finished product is going to pop up tomorrow.

For something of this importance, I'm going to take my time. If any copy right laws are going to be infringed upon, then I would make sure that I had permission first.

First, to answer Mr. Porteiro Head. I've been checkin out Fine Art Printing and things of that nature, and that's where the idea to create a high quality version of 'all things ender' came from. Because to me Ender's Game is holy writ, and I'd like to honour it in some small way.

Second, to TomDavidson. Instead of arguing about the practicals of a large book, maybe you should focus on the question at hand...

...oh yeah, and what's IIRC mean?
Posted by Threads (Member # 10863) on :
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :

Second, to TomDavidson. Instead of arguing about the practicals of a large book, maybe you should focus on the question at hand...

I've always been the kind of person who focuses on the most important questions first, not necessarily on the questions asked. And "what's the advantage of one huge volume" is a pretty important question, here.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
Well Tom,

what I want is what I want, and I can research copyright laws on google. The only reason I started this thread was to ask what people thought of as a good order for the books. There is no advantage for one big volume, it was just an idea that I liked

If I wanted to talk about a large book's spinal problems I would have done so...
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I do think it's interesting that you're more willing to talk about not being willing to talk about why you want to do this thing. But to each his own, I suppose.

If you move forward with this, by the way, I would not limit your copyright research to Google.
Posted by Kwea (Member # 2199) on :
I believe that binding your copies together is legal, but reprinting them all would not be, even if you owned all the original versions of it.

As far as the order....I would leave each book intact, and use the order mph suggested.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :

Thread drift is a beautiful thing. The starter of a thread does not have an inherent right to control which way the discussion goes.

If Tom wants to talk about spine strength, and the community engages him, then that becomes what the thread is about, regardless of what was being discussed previously.

Oh-- welcome to Hatrack. You're wrong.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I had a friend in college whose hobby was bookbinding. He was able to do some pretty amazing work with cloth spines and stitching; I expect that he'd be able to create a single volume whose spine would be sound.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Originally posted by Scott R:
Oh-- welcome to Hatrack. You're wrong.

Man, this really should be a sig. Too bad we don't have 'em here.
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
It'd have to be Lisa's sig. She's the one I saw use it first.
Posted by Omega M. (Member # 7924) on :
I'm just wondering; what is the publication order of all Ender novels and stories? The OSC Bibliography page doesn't list "Investment Counselor" etc.
Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
Thank you, Wikipedia:

It has all the dates of publication there.
Posted by cmc (Member # 9549) on :
Not including the short stories (because I haven't read them, so I can't comment), the order I keep them in is:

Ender's Game
Ender's Shadow
A War of Gifts
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow of the Giant
Speaker for the Dead
Children of the Mind

I have First Meetings in a different spot and also, that's just my opinion on the order.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
For OmegaM, here's an alternate site for the ender novels and stories, it's pretty good, it gives you the order of books written (publication date) and chronological order as well:'s_Game_series

To tom and scott and others, I apologise for being such a prick, and yes scott, I shouldn't have tried to control the drift.

Tom don't woorry about my research, I'm already in contact with OSC's assistant and checkin out if it's possible. I think there's some discrepancy on whether I can do it concerning if it is for personal use or not, but I'm lookin in on it.

As for why I want to do's almost like a photo album, in size if not in purpose. To gather multiple fond memories into a single place...and yeah someone said before, it would almost be like a shrine to OSC. I think thats a pretty good purpose. What do you think guys?
Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :

It's not in my nature to make shrines to anyone, but if you think it's a worthwhile project, I hope it brings you happiness.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
and yeah someone said before, it would almost be like a shrine to OSC. I think thats a pretty good purpose. What do you think guys?
Well, I think that a shrine to OSC or his universe or considering his novels holy write would likely make OSC uncomfortable.

If you honor somebody in a way they don't want to be honored, are you really honoring them? I dunno.
Posted by Ender's Brother (Member # 11279) on :
that's a damn good point, maybe I should just scrap the idea right now. Since I've talked it over with you guys it doesn't seem to be as good an idea as when it first popped into my head...oh well

all I was thinking was that, in the times of the kings and queens, literature was presented in a style that just seemed so much more magnificent and imposing, something that was one of a kind, not meant for the masses and the crowds. I thought maybe I could duplicate that type grandeur for something that I was so fond of. To take the brilliant writings of OSC and mirror them with a brilliant presentation. I know that some of you guys probably think that's a pretty stupid idea, but, I don't know, it was just a thought that I think about it, I think I might have exaggerated some of my meanings a lot, like the whole 'holy writ' thing...I don't think I meant what those words implied, I think I just wanted to make it special...

...not that it's incredibly special already...
Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
Just line them all up in order on the bookshelf. Shrine complete. No books were damaged in the making of this shrine.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think that getting new old-style leather covers put on some of my favorite novels would be pretty awesome. If I had unlimited wealth, that is.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Don't worry so much about what other people think, dude.

P.S. don't forget to get that wild paint stuff on the edges. I love that stuff.

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