This is topic Resurrection of the Ender in forum Discussions About Orson Scott Card at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
 
SPOILERS from Children of the Mind and its prequels are included in this thread.

I was thinking about the nature of aiùas having recently reread Children of the Mind. When Ender first went in the outside space and created Valentine and Peter, he swore to never go back out for fear of doing it again. He was successful in never going out and did so until he died.

Now, I'm still not quite sure why Ender's death was essential to saving Jane. You might argue that his aiùa had to leave Ender Wiggin and doing so is what made his body crumble away, but from the way the story was depicted, it sounded like his aiùa wasn't in any of the three persons. Why couldn't he return to his body like he returned to Peter? The only thing that I recall is when Malu said that Ender's body was broken, and nothing in it [no aiùa] could stay. But why? Despite the idea that Ender's aiùa is still alive in Peter, there were still many, myself included, who were upset at the death of Ender.

So what I was thinking about was the way that Peter and Valentine were created in the outspace. It wasn't Ender Wiggin the person who created them. I can certainly remember that Ender didn't so much as imagine this outcome and immediately wanted them to go away. But it wasn't his choice, it was the way the aiùa saw itself. A balance between Peter and Valentine. Like an Oreo cookie, Ender the cream in between that join the two. The way I see it, as long as Ender's aiùa was controlling those three beings, than any of them could make a trip into out space without more being created because the aiùa already had them. Then there's the turning point when Ender dies and Jane take over the young Valentine body. At that point, the aiùa only has the Peter body. Then Jane regains access to her data across the ansible network. She remembers some things and mentions that the problem of creating anything in space is solved by only staying in space for a picosecond. Long enough only for the aiùa to hold the body and nothing more. Then when they restore "starflight" with Jane, the creating is over. The rest of the book, nothing is created in outspace because they're not in it enough. Now, Card has already announced that he plans to create a book that takes place after Children of the Mind. In that book, he could quite easily bring back Ender by having Peter spending more time in that out space so that that same aiùa creates the three of them again.

Now will Card do this? Most likely not. I don't think that he would think of this possibility because he's not interested in bringing back Ender. He was content to let him die (or else he wouldn't have written it.) Even if he did think of it or read this post, he probably wouldn't want to do it. But, it would add more to the story for writing. What do they do with yet another Valentine created? How is the aiùa going to handle the three of them now? Can they get another aiùa to control Peter so Ender can have his aiùa back? Ender may even be young like Peter and Valentine again if he wanted to stretch it.

Sorry, my idea of the perfect Enderverse has Ender and Graff always alive. Ender going about solving problems and Graff watching over humanity.
 
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
 
" The way I see it, as long as Ender's aiùa was controlling those three beings, than any of them could make a trip into out space without more being created because the aiùa already had them."

You might be right about the consequences of additional trips Outside once the aiùa possessed three bodies. However, aiùa-corpus mechanics aren't really explained to the extent that we can know this for sure. (Card's answer to this question might be selected by the needs of the storyline. [Wink] )

I do not think Peter can achieve the same effect. Remember old Valentine's reaction to the creation of young Peter and Val? She recognized it as a result of Ender's unique issues that resulted from his traumatic childhood. Young Peter is not Ender; he doesn't contain the psychological baggage that Ender did. He is just Peter, not the duality of love and aggression that defines Ender's personality.

In addition to not really wanting to revive Ender, I doubt OSC wants to explore the question of what will happen if the aiùa is again in charge of three bodies, because I think he already answered that question satisfactorily: it doesn't hold up. Something has to give, and will, after a relatively short period of time. Why would the result be any different if the situation was repeated?

The way I see it, Ender's uniqueness as a character is the key to the ab initio creation of his two mental progeny. Peter isn't Ender; personality is distinct from the life-force of the aiùa, so the result can't be repeated.

I must say, though, that the major problem with the Outside and the way it's employed in the Enderverse is that it doesn't rule out such pretty ideas as easy immortality and doing just about anything you can think of. The importance of OSC's signature moral dilemmas can't help but be diluted to a large degree when you can just move to another galaxy or resurrect a body at will. *shrug*
 
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
 
I was pretty sure that the aiùa is what created the two extra people, not Ender's psyche such as it is in only his brain.

As for Peter being Peter and not Ender, I can only offer the other example of Jane. When she took the body of Young Valentine, yes, she had the memories of that short life of Young Val, but she knew herself to be Jane at the core, not the Val in the flesh. Likewise, if Jane took over Peter, he wouldn't consider himself Peter. He would see himself as Jane. That's why Peter avoids facing any bit of Ender's life on Lusitania. He still feels Ender at his root and the devotion to Novinha.

When such a thing was attempted, perhaps the presence of Jane in the Young Val body would do something to prevent the creation and/or possessing of another new Val. Then the issue would be getting an aiùa for Peter. You could take it really deep and perhaps find the original aiùa of Peter Wiggin. I don't recall him saying that the aiùa's are destroyed. I would think that they go back outside. And if you need to call an aiùa to fit the patter of Peter so perfectly, what other aiùa would come?
 
Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
 
The two of them, New Peter and New Val, share Ender's soul, but they do not share Ender's mind or psychology. So, Peter and Val, are not likely to create more Ender's. In their minds, they don't need Ender.

When Ender created them, he gave Peter the intelligence and arrogance to not need or long for some warped illusion of a sibling.

In creating Val, Ender made her far too benevolent and self-sacrificing to have the psychology necessary to create a new Ender.

I suspect in the new book, they will travel 'Outside' again to create something. I think they will create a genetic cure for Bean's Children, just as the created a genetic cure for the people of Path. But I don't foresee any 'surprise' creations happening.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
 
I agree that I think they will create the cure for Bean's children that way, but Bean may very well be dead by then. But I didn't really think of bring back Ender as a 'surprise.' I think that they might do it on purpose for whatever reason the author decides. As 3000 years in the Enderverse proved, humans can't deal with aliens. It took Ender's hand to get both the Hive Queen and the Piggies accepted as ramen. What hope do they have at not destroying the Descoladores without him?

I still do think that it was the aiùa that created Peter and Val. When reading Xenocide, it starts off with their speculation that what you think about is what will happen. But as you go along and get into Children of the Mind, it sounds more like that aiùa is running the show.
 
Posted by Person122 (Member # 11899) on :
 
They used the recolada created in the Outside by Ela in a similar fashion as Ender with Peter and Val to cure the godspoken of their OCD-like disorder by modifying their genetic code. It think that's how Bean's children will be cured.
 


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